OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#42

[Cool Cats]

Just came across this. One of the news stations is posting them on ScribD

Jake Wagner Bill of Particulars

Jake Wagner to appear at a pretrial hearing

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? You just posted that a reporter is holding the Bill of Particulars and if media can get it why can't the public get it also?

THEN you POST (link) the Bill of Particulars on here a short time later.....

I am extremely impressed with you finding this and finding it so fast. I know you don't care about impressing anyone on here, I know you just post to share and learn about the case, but I just had to say it. Thanks for posting this.

 

[Betty P]

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? You just posted that a reporter is holding the Bill of Particulars and if media can get it why can't the public get it also?

THEN you POST (link) the Bill of Particulars on here a short time later.....

I am extremely impressed with you finding this and finding it so fast. I know you don't care about impressing anyone on here, I know you just post to share and learn about the case, but I just had to say it. Thanks for posting this.

Saw someone else post the link elsewhere, right after I posted. This stuff is just now coming up on news web sites. I wish the news media would do more to make the docs available to the public. I think they get them by special request or FOIA request from the court, not sure. JMO. The public access to information about this case could be a WHOLE lot better than it is. JMO. No one is asking for gory details, just the same information that attorneys receive and will be presented at trial.

 

[Betty P]

I just noticed in the Bill of Particulars for JW that in the charge for having sex with a minor, it's noted that the offense occurred at Bethel Hill Rd in Pike County. No house number. Was his family living there at that time?

ETA: Time being Jan 18, 2013 through March 18, 2013

 

[FonescaFan]

Maybe had a convo with one of the attorneys or something?

Rhodens and Manleys coming in now.

It was good to see Hannah Gilley’s mom in court today. AFAIK, she hasn’t attended many of the pre-trial hearings. The families have so much courage.

 

[Howcanppldosuch]

Curiouser and curiouser.

"Custody Messages (1 excel sheet with 519 entries)". A spreadsheet containing messages? Did Billy create a spreadsheet to document messages or does this refer to a spreadsheet that LE put together?

"Fredericka Wagner lied about her son's bullet proof vest". Maybe I haven't been paying the strictest attention, but this is the first I've heard of a bullet proof vest.

"Information from Maglite." ATF shined a flashlight down the well and this entry relates to what they found? The silencer maybe? I wonder why they refer to it this way.

Interesting to note mag lites are being modified into gun silencers

 

[Howcanppldosuch]

People have been making unregistered suppressors out of standard size 4 cell Maglite flashlight bodies (the cylindrical part). There are companies that sell the add on parts and advertise them as parts to turn the Maglite body into "solvent traps" -- wink, wink, they just happen to screw onto a threaded gun or pistol barrel -- which is the same as when companies used to sell good old fashioned M-80 style firecrackers and firecracker kits well into the 80s and 90s (the off the shelf consumer M-80s have been illegal since 1966, I believe) for use as "pest control" until the ATF shut that stuff down. So that's my guess: parts for an improvised suppressor were found. I wonder if using the Maglite body with those "solvent trap" parts leaves behind telltale marks inside the Maglite body, if they even bothered to disassemble it at all.

Edit: "info from Maglite" probably means the ATF contacted Maglite. Maglite is probably well aware of their product being used this way, and probably wanted factory markings and specs, etc.

All of this MY OPINION!

Or possibly test results from maglite hence “info from maglite”

 

[Sleuthinsleuther]

Yes, the directions to the news media about photographing JW's restraints sounds very odd. That judge sure is accommodating to JW.

WRT shock restraints and their uneven record, you know whatever security leniency they grant to JW, they'll have to do the same for GW3 & GW4. JW is puny, but the other two are very large, esp GW3 and could easily escape and could be a very real public threat to anyone in that courtroom or out on the streets.

Somehow I think having JW ask for this exception first is part of a plan. Let's not forget they already discussed plans to escape if arrested.

I am not sure how on earth this got 7 likes but come on there is no way any of the perps are doing sh** with several armed LE just feet away. Also they will have some type of restraint just none that is visible.

Their best chsnxe is to escape in prison, I bet atleast one of them will do it too at some point.

 

[Sleuthinsleuther]

Imo, the attorneys may want to strategize with the others as in jw will plead guilty to xyz, the plan is for you and others to xyz, and we as the attorneys will try to make a deal will prosecutor so that the dp be taken off table

Not a chance imo. They are not admitting to nothing.

I can however see Billy pleading guilty and trying to take the full blame.

 

[FrankieT]

I am not sure how on earth this got 7 likes but come on there is no way any of the perps are doing sh** with several armed LE just feet away. Also they will have some type of restraint just none that is visible.

Their best chsnxe is to escape in prison, I bet atleast one of them will do it too at some point.

So let's say they let JW slide a little with his restraints. Then GW3 asks for the same. Hard to say no to him after saying yes to JW. GW3 is a BIG man. Possibly a big angry man. Possibly a big angry desperate man. If his restraints are minimal and he feels he has nothing to lose, jumps an officer and takes their gun, how much damage could he do before he is subdued? Another person murdered or injured by one of the W's because of lack of proper restraint would be negligence of the highest order. My opinion only.

 

[Cool Cats]

Saw someone else post the link elsewhere, right after I posted. This stuff is just now coming up on news web sites. I wish the news media would do more to make the docs available to the public. I think they get them by special request or FOIA request from the court, not sure. JMO. The public access to information about this case could be a WHOLE lot better than it is. JMO. No one is asking for gory details, just the same information that attorneys receive and will be presented at trial.

Here is a link you posted earlier. Because there has been a lot of discussion on here about GW3's scorpion tattoo, I have to wonder if the tattoo referred to in this article IS the "infamous" scorpion tattoo.
****It says that the prosecution turned over a photo of a tattoo belonging to GW3****

Most of the scorpion tattoo is on the top of GW3's right hand above his index finger. In the photo I'm looking at from 2017, I do NOT see any tattoos on the top of his right hand. This photo clearly (well it is somewhat blurry but clear enough) shows the area above his right index "trigger" finger.

So it's....My 2 Cents....that GW3 got the scorpion tattoo after the murders. And....My 2 Cents...that this is the tattoo brought into evidence.

PROSECUTION TURNS OVER PHOTO OF GW3's TATTOO....
Jake Wagner to appear at a pretrial hearing

NO TATTOO ON TOP OF GW3's RIGHT HAND..
https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/bc...2.jpg?width=3200&height=1680&fit=crop

 

[Sleuthinsleuther]

So let's say they let JW slide a little with his restraints. Then GW3 asks for the same. Hard to say no to him after saying yes to JW. GW3 is a BIG man. Possibly a big angry man. Possibly a big angry desperate man. If his restraints are minimal and he feels he has nothing to lose, jumps an officer and takes their gun, how much damage could he do before he is subdued? Another person murdered or injured by one of the W's because of lack of proper restraint would be negligence of the highest order. My opinion only.

There would be multiple armed LE and there will still be restraints like I said.

He’s not gonna be able to just run out the door either

 

[FonescaFan]

Just came across this. One of the news stations is posting them on ScribD

Jake Wagner Bill of Particulars

Jake Wagner to appear at a pretrial hearing

Count 20 caught my eye! It states that Jake intercepted “Facebook communications of another” from July 2014 to May of 2017. Not sure if that definitely means only one person’s FB account, and/or whose FB account that could be. Why would he (and co-defendants) be monitoring FB a year after the murders? What could be learned? Any thoughts?

 

[Betty P]

Here is a link you posted earlier. Because there has been a lot of discussion on here about GW3's scorpion tattoo, I have to wonder if the tattoo referred to in this article IS the "infamous" scorpion tattoo.
****It says that the prosecution turned over a photo of a tattoo belonging to GW3****

Most of the scorpion tattoo is on the top of GW3's right hand above his index finger. In the photo I'm looking at from 2017, I do NOT see any tattoos on the top of his right hand. This photo clearly (well it is somewhat blurry but clear enough) shows the area above his right index "trigger" finger.

So it's....My 2 Cents....that GW3 got the scorpion tattoo after the murders. And....My 2 Cents...that this is the tattoo brought into evidence.

PROSECUTION TURNS OVER PHOTO OF GW3's TATTOO....
Jake Wagner to appear at a pretrial hearing

NO TATTOO ON TOP OF GW3's RIGHT HAND..
https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/bc...2.jpg?width=3200&height=1680&fit=crop

Sure looks that way.

I'm still disturbed about the Boondocks Saints movie having scenes where the killers shot victims in the eye, then placed coins on top. How long have we been debating about why so many victims were shot in the eye? These murders were somewhat ritualistic. JMO

 

[ColMustard]

On page 30 below, number 2.
Jake Wagner Bill of Particulars

Dates of the sexual conduct with a 13 yr old - Jan. 18, 2013 to March 18, 2013.

How would those specific dates come about? Texts or emails, or more surveillance?

 

[Cool Cats]

Sure looks that way.

I'm still disturbed about the Boondocks Saints movie having scenes where the killers shot victims in the eye, then placed coins on top. How long have we been debating about why so many victims were shot in the eye? These murders were somewhat ritualistic. JMO

I haven't found out about the movie yet other than 2 vigilante brothers go killing local people they judge as evil. Thankx for mentioning the eye shots. Could have an impact on some jurors.
At least 2 were shot in their eye.
Kenny was shot in his right eye and HG in her left eye. Possibly someone else?

This movie sounds about as chilling as the movie At Close Range with Christopher Walken and Sean Penn. Except Close Range is a true story.

Hope Boondock Saints is not based on anything true.

 

[FonescaFan]

I just noticed in the Bill of Particulars for JW that in the charge for having sex with a minor, it's noted that the offense occurred at Bethel Hill Rd in Pike County. No house number. Was his family living there at that time?

ETA: Time being Jan 18, 2013 through March 18, 2013

Pike County: Father accused in Rhoden massacre faced prior felonies
George 3 owned a trailer there at one point, and hid stolen items there. I just did a Pike County property search and a single-wide trailer at 845 Bethel Hill Rd is owned by George and Fredricka Wagner. I wonder how LE knows where Jake’s sex offense occurred. Bad karma at that place. MOO.

 

[Cool Cats]

On page 30 below, number 2.
Jake Wagner Bill of Particulars

Dates of the sexual conduct with a 13 yr old - Jan. 18, 2013 to March 18, 2013.

How would those specific dates come about? Texts or emails, or more surveillance?

She was 15 at the time. It says the encounter resulted in a pregnancy so maybe part of the reason for those dates is to encompass the date she would have gotten pregnant.

Another way to come up with those dates is by interviewing witnessess. I don't think for a minute that they didn't interview CH, CG, MG, and many others!

.....My 2 Cents....

 

[IQuestion]

Pike County: Father accused in Rhoden massacre faced prior felonies
George 3 owned a trailer there at one point, and hid stolen items there. I just did a Pike County property search and a single-wide trailer at 845 Bethel Hill Rd is owned by George and Fredricka Wagner. I wonder how LE knows where Jake’s sex offense occurred. Bad karma at that place. MOO.

Uh, wild guess....VCR tapes. (iirc there was a burned vcr player, right?) Just noting, the W4's appear to monitor everything.
Edited to add other possibilities: personal diary?, medical records?, average gestational stats?

 

[Tiff23fr]

On page 30 below, number 2.
Jake Wagner Bill of Particulars

Dates of the sexual conduct with a 13 yr old - Jan. 18, 2013 to March 18, 2013.

How would those specific dates come about? Texts or emails, or more surveillance?

Possibly the time frame of conception and Bethel Hill Rd being where he lived at the time?
---
These custody documents also provide insight into the timeline of the case.

Sophia was born in November 2013. This means she was conceived in the middle of the time frame prosecutors say Wagner had “unlawful sexual conduct with a minor” involving Rhoden between January and March of 2013.

At the time, Wagner was 20, and Rhoden was 15.

In the custody documents, Wagner said he and Rhoden dated exclusively before Sophia was conceived and after she was born.

Pike County murders: Court docs reveal custody battle at heart of killings

 

[ColMustard]

She was 15 at the time. It says the encounter resulted in a pregnancy so maybe part of the reason for those dates is to encompass the date she would have gotten pregnant.

Another way to come up with those dates is by interviewing witnessess. I don't think for a minute that they didn't interview CH, CG, MG, and many others!

.....My 2 Cents....

You're right, I picked up on the first part of the sentence when I went back to copy. The document does state 15 yrs old further on.

But how do you get three months off from the date of birth? Haven't heard the baby was premature. They appear to be a very specific time frame.

More questions, just have to wait and see. Between this case and current/world events, my reading load has increased exponentially in 48 hours. hours. hours. Trying to keep up! Lots of info and good posts.