OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#45

[Jonas_Klein]

I was assuming that the "forged custody papers" were referring to legal papers trying to get HMR to simply voluntarily give up her parental rights of SW to JW. BUT, in RN's discovery, the document is listed as "Declaration of Appointment of Guardian for my Children in the Event of my Death or Incapacity (Hanna Rhoden)" (as per the above-mentioned link). Holy Schnikies! In retrospect, that spells out exactly what their plan was--as plain as the nose on your face! To me, sounds reminiscent of taking out a life insurance policy on someone then having them killed. Sends chills down my spine!

It's fair to assume AW played a significant role in the conflict between JW and HMR. She is grand-mother and her son lived with her. HMR was relatively young, i can imagine AW did not approve everything.

AW might have fed the conflict, it doesn't mean she planned the crime. However this forged declaration for guardianship notarized by her mother raises a lot of questions.

I can't wait to learn more on this evidence.

 

[OhioBlues]

It's fair to assume AW played a significant role in the conflict between JW and HMR. She is grand-mother and her son lived with her. HMR was relatively young, i can imagine AW did not approve everything.

AW might have fed the conflict, it doesn't mean she planned the crime. However this forged declaration for guardianship notarized by her mother raises a lot of questions.

I can't wait to learn more on this evidence.

Agreed. I can't wait to learn more about the evidence and especially the states opinion/explanation of their evidence.

Hopefully, it won't be years.

 

[Jayejayehilltop]

So you believe that Rita did not know about the bad blood between Angie and Hanna and that given that bad blood Rita believed Angie just bumped into Hanna and everything was just peachy to the point of Hanna virtually signing her own death warrant with those Guardianship papers? Hmmm. I guess I am just a little more skeptical. I don't have a daughter but I have nieces who tell their mama everything right down to what they ate for dinner last night. They especially talk to mama if they have any troubled relationships with ex in laws. In fact they talk to me (their aunt) about any trouble in any relationships with ex's or ex's families. If George's ex SIL knew you can bet you last pair of boots Rita did too. She knew what was up.

JMO

I totally agree with you about mothers and daughters talking about everthing. My own mom died when I was very young so no first hand experience there, but my daughter and i talk about every detail of everyday, that is us, what we do. My niece and sil are the same. Actually my son and i are very close and talk alot about day to day details as well, just not everyday like my daughter and i do.

 

[Cool Cats]

I wondered about her comment that the town/county was divided. She made it sound like most supported the Wags and thought someone else was involved. Very shady. My impression overall is that she's biased towards the Wagners and is planting seeds of doubt that someone else did the killings.

So, no, not impressed. But hey, she's got to make a living, right? JMO

Thankx for this post Betty. I totally agree and it's nice to have someone else realize what seems to be going on.

 

[Cool Cats]

Hey Cool Cat did you notice that the judge is in favor of video cast for Billy Wagner court hearing, do you think that LE thinks something might happen like attempted break out with all the new faces? JMO

It's just for him to talk to his lawyers, not for court hearings. He will still come to court but this gives him greater access to speak with his attorneys outside of court. I remember this Motion from an earlier hearing and I'm sure that's what it's about.

 

[Betty P]

Rita Newcomb's discovery docs are interesting.

Newcomb Discovery


It appears she forged documents for the Declaration of Guardianship for children by their parents for HMR, JW and GW3. Guardianship appointment occurs in the event of death or incapacity.

I wonder who was named as the Guardian for these children? AW? Why would they forge these documents just a few weeks before the murders? JMO, it looks like premeditation for the murder of Hannah, assuming Jake would get custody of Sophia. The papers for Jake may have been a way of avoiding suspicion from authorities after the murders.

Were these papers ever filed with the probate court?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Is there a link or proof that any W's caused cartel members to be investigated? That is a serious accusation if not. MOO/

The W's did not lead the investigation. Investigators follow the evidence. They investigate tips. Big difference. The only way a tip would change the direction of an investigation is if it led to evidence for investigators to follow. Not sure what JBB meant with his post.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

FW keeps saying that Big Chris was killed because he knew to much, wonder what she is talking about, FW also said on camera that she tried to tell LE who killed Big Chris, JMO I would buy some more bulletproof vest if I knew who killed the Rhodens and was bragging about trying to tell the LE.

True.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Did you find the link for her saying this? TIA.

Actually that is in her last interview. The part about her saying Chris was killed because he knew something and that she gave LE the name of who she thought killed him. But I am too busy to hunt up the link this morning. JMO

 

[Betty P]

Here's a link to the Media & Timelines thread for the Pike County Murders

Media & Timeline NO DISCUSSION - Pike Co, OH 8 Family Members Murdered

This is the most recent page and has links to videos, news stories and discovery documents from the latest hearings.

You're encouraged to add news articles, photos, videos, maps, court documents, anything you think is relevant to the Rhoden/Gilley murders. Thanks!

You can access the Media & Timelines thread from the link on the first page of each discussion thread or at the very top of the "Crimes In the News" main page. Just click on the orange "Crimes In the News" tab at the top of this thread to get to the main page.

ETA: The videos of FW's latest interviews with the Plain Dealer are at the link above.

 

[Betty P]

Thankx for this post Betty. I totally agree and it's nice to have someone else realize what seems to be going on.

Thanks. I hope I'm wrong. I'm not familiar with her, so this is just a first impression. Maybe the hosts of these shows prefer to hedge their bets in the beginning in case the defendants are found "not guilty".

 

[RAISINISBACK]

They stand accused of a horrible massacre of an innocent family. After a thorough investigation of 2+ years, lead by the former Ohio AG who is now Ohio governor, it appears they have a very solid case. Gov DeWine wouldn't stake his career on these arrests if he didn't feel the evidence was there to convict them.

Though Wagners are innocent until proven guilty, the information about them we've learned and the horrible crimes they're charged with make it ok to have a poor opinion of them. Not once has any of them expressed sadness or sympathy for the 8 deceased Rhoden family members. They didn't even bother to attend the funerals. So bad assumptions about the Wagners are warranted JMO.

To answer your other question, no, I don't know them personally. I had never heard of them until these murders were committed. They're similar, though, to other criminals.

ETA: Don't forget the "white supremacy" tattoos of Billy Wagner. Those are dangerous, mean, hateful people.

I live 800 miles from Ohio and never heard of the Wagners before the murders. I, like Betty, think they are horrible people. Although the Wagners are by law innocent until judged guilty by a jury, I am not on the jury and will never be so I feel like I can think whatever I want about them. But on the other hand I feel like other people are free to think what they will of them whether it is good or bad. I do not know if Caylee knows them personally but I do know it is against TOS to sleuth another poster so I would think you are scooting close to the edge by asking her if she knows them. It really doesn't make any difference if she does or not.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I totally agree with you about mothers and daughters talking about everthing. My own mom died when I was very young so no first hand experience there, but my daughter and i talk about every detail of everyday, that is us, what we do. My niece and sil are the same. Actually my son and i are very close and talk alot about day to day details as well, just not everyday like my daughter and i do.

I am not as close to my son as hubby is. Hubby and the son talk for hours on the phone every single day. But if my son is having trouble in his life he calls me and talks about it or hubby tells me about it since he knows way before I do and I call my son.

I can tell you right now that both Fred and Rita knew about that "bad blood" between Angie and Hanna. You can bet Billy told Fred or his dad (who was still alive at the time of the murders) and there is no doubt Rita and probably Angie's dad (who was still alive at the time of the murders) knew.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

I am not as close to my son as hubby is. Hubby and the son talk for hours on the phone every single day. But if my son is having trouble in his life he calls me and talks about it or hubby tells me about it since he knows way before I do and I call my son.

I can tell you right now that both Fred and Rita knew about that "bad blood" between Angie and Hanna. You can bet Billy told Fred or his dad (who was still alive at the time of the murders) and there is no doubt Rita and probably Angie's dad (who was still alive at the time of the murders) knew.

JMO

Good point, Raisin. Folks don't always realize, but sometimes the criminals read Websleuths. It's always smart to have a standing rule against sharing personal information about yourself or others.

I'm generalizing here to all of the threads at WS, not just this one. If it hasn't happened to you yet, it's quite a hair raising experience when you find someone posting in a thread you're in is a suspect in the crime you're reading about.

 

[Myland]

Actually that is in her last interview. The part about her saying Chris was killed because he knew something and that she gave LE the name of who she thought killed him. But I am too busy to hunt up the link this morning. JMO

Jmo but I know many people in the area that have that same belief Jmo now it could be the Wagner’s involved in the same thing, I don’t know. Just know it’s not an uncommon theory. Jmo

 

[Betty P]

Here's the video with her comment about Chris Sr

Just after the arrests, some of his here discussed Sheriff Reader's comments in the PC:

“We have been patient when it was painful to be, running down every lead, no matter how small,” said Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader.

“Members of one family conspired, planned, carried out and then allegedly covered up their violent act to wipe out members of another family. They did this quickly, coldly, calmly and very carefully. But not carefully enough. They left traces, they left a trail. The parts to build a silencer, the forged documents, the cameras, cellphones, all that they tampered with. And the lies, all the lies they told us.”

BBM

The consensus here was that many of the rumors, leads and searches at the beginning of the investigation were false leads provided by the Wagners. If Fredericka had any "theories" about what "Chris knew" or who might have been involved, you can bet she shared that info with LE, and that LE spent the first year after the murders wasting valuable time and resources following those leads.

At some point, LE accepted the nagging suspicion that the family that had been sending them on wild goose chases were the people who killed the Rhodens. It took LE a year of investigating to accept that the folks who were considered "local royalty" by some were lying to them.

JMO, any hints Fredericka Wagner is now dropping in the news media are all stale old "leads" that were passed to investigators and later proven false. That's important to keep in mind: LE spent the better part of a year investigating all the false leads and theories shared by the Wagners.

They were all dead ends. They are still dead ends.

Homemade silencer last piece of evidence in Pike County murder case

 

[Tiff23fr]

I am not as close to my son as hubby is. Hubby and the son talk for hours on the phone every single day. But if my son is having trouble in his life he calls me and talks about it or hubby tells me about it since he knows way before I do and I call my son.

I can tell you right now that both Fred and Rita knew about that "bad blood" between Angie and Hanna. You can bet Billy told Fred or his dad (who was still alive at the time of the murders) and there is no doubt Rita and probably Angie's dad (who was still alive at the time of the murders) knew.

JMO

I don't feel we really know the true relationship between Angela and Rita just yet. While some mothers and daughters do have relationships as you describe, others do not. I know of many who may go weeks or months without talking to their parents. When they do talk it's more superficial in nature.

I see Angela as a conniving woman who may only reach out if she wants or needs something. That's just my opinion. I could easily see Angela becoming wrapped up in the new life as a Wagner upon marriage and placing some space between her and her mom and dad.

Again, I think Rita broke the law and should be held accountable as such. I don't dispute that.

I don't feel, based on what we do know to date, that I assume her mom knew "everything". Just because she appeared to have been close to her family after the murders by AW moving to her dads place, I don't feel it means those families were always close. Every family doesn't have the relationships you describe.

Now if we switch the view to AFTER the murders, I believe Rita may have had a very very good idea what happened and did in fact lie & commit purjery in an attempt to protect her and her daughter/grandsons.

In the end, whatever role she played, she should be punished as such.

JMO

 

[IType]

But...if George's ex SIL knew about the bad blood between Angie and Hanna, how is it Angie's own mother Rita did not know? If my daughter and her son's ex was having some "bad blood" between them I would not believe that my daughter just bumped into the ex and the ex just obligingly signed Guardianship papers for her child. Rita knew. She knew full well Hanna did not sign those papers for Angie or anyone else. You can bet Angie told her mother everything.

JMO

I'm really on the fence about how much RN knew and when she came to know it. It will be interesting to see what info comes out at trial.

 

[IType]

Is he saying if you find me guilty, I plead crazy?

I frequently transcribe psychological exams in my work. My opinion is that his defense team wants the mental status exam for two reasons: First, it will establish whether he has "low intellectual function", i.e., the 7th grade education so he couldn't be the mastermind. Second, if he has "low intellectual function", then that could be an argument by his defense team to not give him the death penalty if he's found guilty.

 

[grillzgirl]

Does anyone have a link or information that I can read regarding the Wagners not attending the funerals? If it were me, I would have attended just to keep appearances up. I have always wondered about their attendance at the wake/funeral of the victims.

Thanks.