OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#45

[Dudly]

Theory only. My opinion.
Replacing a plate with a manufacture date after the murders may have been an attempt by FW to confuse the issue, just as Owen is using it now - muddying the waters...
I don’t know enough about the vests to make any suggestions other than-
If a plate was replaced, is it possible, during all the searches, that another “plate” (The original plate) was located on Wagner property or in a Wagners possession. If this is a replacement plate, there must be an original plate somewhere. Even if it is at the bottom of the Ohio or Scioto River. Original plate that would have a much earlier manufacture date. Could Prosecutor have that plate in their possession? Could the vest in question have some other characteristic that dates the manufacture of the vest at a specific earlier time.
Just wondering...seems Prosecutor is giving FW/ Owen lots of rope on this issue.

It sounded to me like AC said replacement plates were shipped to the PO Box of the church. I could be wrong...

 

[Dudly]

Fredericka Wagner and Rita Newcomb consult with their attorneys, prior to their pretrial hearings Thursday afternoon in Pike County Common Pleas Court.


The first trial dates have been set in the case involving the murder of eight member of the Rhoden family in 2016.

Rita Newcomb of South Webster, and Fredericka Wagner appeared in Pike County Common Please Court Thursday morning and afternoon for a pre trial conferences.

Pike County Common Pleas Court Judge Randy Deering spoke with defense attorney Frank Gerlach, representing Newcomb, asking him if the bill of particulars, as well as status of discovery, had been satisfied. Gerlach said he has requested to see the complete transcript of his client’s testimony before a Pike County Grand Jury. Newcomb faces, among other charges, perjury for allegedly not telling the complete truth during her testimony to the grand jury in relation to what she knew about her family members’ involvement in what was described as execution style murders of the Rhoden family.

Angela Canepa, special prosecutor from the Ohio Attorney General’s office told the court she was prepared to release 54 of the 93 pages of transcript to Gerlach before he left the courtroom Thursday. Deering instructed both defense and prosecution, the court will review the remaining pages to see if they can be unsealed as well.

Deering also asked prosecution if a motion for a gag order had been filed in the case. At this time, according to Canepa, there has not been a motion filed. The other five defendants in the case are currently under a gag order issued by Deering earlier.

Deering set what would appear to be a final pre trial hearing for Newcomb for June 14 at 1:30 pm. He also set July 8, 9 and 10 for a jury trial and said July 11, if necessary.
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For Wagner, her final pretrial has been set for June 26 at 1:30 pm. A jury trial has been schedule July 29 and is scheduled for five days.
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Before Deering set the dates for Wagner, her attorney, James Owen, argued for her case to be dismissed, as well as for her house arrest to be removed.

Owen argued that the evidence about Wagner purchasing bullet proof vests linking her to the April 21, 2016 murders was incorrect in that she ordered the vests on Ebay 15 days after the murders took place. He said this does not constitute perjury or obstruction of justice.

“It’s impossible. How in the world can Fredericka be guilty of perjury,” Owen said. He went on to say his defendant telling the grand jury “she guessed” and “I thought I did” does not warrant a false statement. “

Owen asked for the dismissal of the case saying his client had been charged with a crime that was not committed. “We want the court to take a fresh look,” Owen said. “It’s a matter of law.”

Canepa responded by saying the documentation that was given to the court showing when and how the bullet proof vests were purchased was not authentic."We need to look at all four corners of the indictment," Canepa said. She said there is much more to the case than Owen was putting before the court and asked Deering to over rule the motion.

Deering did in fact over rule the motion, but in a motion from defense to allow Wagner to attend church services at Crystal Springs Church, Deering allowed the motion to stand with a clarification the court needs to know the dates and time the services are to be held. He also allowed Wagner to attend Lucasville Mission Church as well as long has she notifies authorities prior to attending.

In that same motion, defense was asking for a complete removal of the ankle bracelet to allow Wagner free travel in Pike and Scioto counties. Deering denied this part of the motion.

Prosecution and defense are also working on particulars of a gag order as well. Owen spoke saying he would no longer make comments to the press outside courtroom proceedings.
Trial dates set for Newcomb, Wagner - Portsmouth Daily Times

BBM
But he did not say FW would not....

 

[Myland]

It sounded to me like AC said replacement plates were shipped to the PO Box of the church. I could be wrong...

Jmo it did sound that way, but how would Owens fix receipts and think he could get away with that jmo

 

[Dudly]

Since she mentioned it, I assume Angela Canepa has already done this. Oh, to be a fly on the wall in her office.

I think she seems ready for any antics Owens throws at her. I also think she has been slow to turn everything over to the defense because she wants to save the slam dunk for last.
I can't understand Owens' ploy by asking that the date for discovery be moved to a later date. I wonder what he needs more time for... Maybe to go to the law library and look up some more irrelevant cases he can name in court...

 

[NLM1234]

AC said it was factually inaccurate re the date on the vests.

Did anyone notice that FW made sure to make eye contact with AC after she stood up then FW gave AC a look and shook her head? Yikes.

I did notice. Also, around minute 25, FW starts staring over at the defense table, and holds her gaze for nearly a minute. Her attorney is talking during this time, seems to notice, and distracts FW. Yikes is right!

 

[Dudly]

Jmo it did sound that way, but how would Owens fix receipts and think he could get away with that jmo

Throw out everything that could maybe cloud the waters and hope it works... He can always say he was repeating what he was told...

 

[Betty P]

I think she seems ready for any antics Owens throws at her. I also think she has been slow to turn everything over to the defense because she wants to save the slam dunk for last.
I can't understand Owens' ploy by asking that the date for discovery be moved to a later date. I wonder what he needs more time for... Maybe to go to the law library and look up some more irrelevant cases he can name in court...

And now she also knows whatever evidence is turned over to Owens is selectively exposed in the news media before the trial has even begun. That's shocking to see a defense attorney doing that.

If he continues with these unethical strategies he may end up losing his law license for a while.

 

[Ann99]

It sounded to me like AC said replacement plates were shipped to the PO Box of the church. I could be wrong...

Sorry if I missed it. Has FW actually referred to the plate(s) as REPLACEMENT plates? I’m getting myself confused now.

Regarding Owen. He is strictly following the defense attorney method of conducting business with his client. (I’m not defending Owen)
That is - doesn’t ask any direct questions of your client
Defense Attorney wants no direct answers as to guilt and
doesn’t want to hear a full or even partial confession.
Defense Attorney works with what information his client provides.
That’s the way it goes in defense of a client.
A defense Attorney can not KNOWINGLY lie to the Court,
but must provide a vigorous defense.

Here’s a short article that will explain defense of client/Attorney responsibilities.

Representing a Client the Lawyer Thinks Is Guilty

A little preview...
“The key is the difference between factual guilt (what the defendant actually did) and legal guilt (what a prosecutor can prove). A good criminal defense lawyer asks not, “Did my client do it?” but rather, “Can the government prove that my client did it?” No matter what the defendant has done, he is not legally guilty until a prosecutor offers enough evidence to persuade a judge or jury to convict.”

 

[Tiff23fr]

During Owens spill around Amazon he says "others were saying she purchased them from Amazon" hence.. "I guess I did, I thought I did, etc."
I guess others are the Wagner 4?

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Jmo but why is the state dragging their feet in all this. Why not just turn everything over and get it done? Even when given the opportunity to file a written motion against Fredericka’s request to go to the church they don’t do it. Jmo

Didn’t you catch it today they got Fredricka to omit that she uses the church address their letting her hang her self, JMO

 

[Myland]

Throw out everything that could maybe cloud the waters and hope it works... He can always say he was repeating what he was told...

Jmo he could but the exhibits he attached had the date of 5/7/16. It looks like if he fixed them he could lose his license, I don’t see risking that over a perjury/obstruction trial jmo

 

[Dudly]

Sorry if I missed it. Has FW actually referred to the plate(s) as REPLACEMENT plates? I’m getting myself confused now.

Regarding Owen. He is strictly following the defense attorney method of conducting business with his client. (I’m not defending Owen)
That is - doesn’t ask any direct questions of your client
Defense Attorney wants no direct answers as to guilt and
doesn’t want to hear a full or even partial confession.
Defense Attorney works with what information his client provides.
That’s the way it goes in defense of a client.
A defense Attorney can not KNOWINGLY lie to the Court,
but must provide a vigorous defense.

Here’s a short article that will explain defense of client/Attorney responsibilities.

Representing a Client the Lawyer Thinks Is Guilty

A little preview...
“The key is the difference between factual guilt (what the defendant actually did) and legal guilt (what a prosecutor can prove). A good criminal defense lawyer asks not, “Did my client do it?” but rather, “Can the government prove that my client did it?” No matter what the defendant has done, he is not legally guilty until a prosecutor offers enough evidence to persuade a judge or jury to convict.”

BBM
No FW has not said they were replacement plates. BUT if the original plates were replaced with plates with manufactured dates after the murders, it would make it appear that the vests were bought after the murders...

 

[RAISINISBACK]

To build this out a bit..
Rita is in quite a predicament. If she notarized these not knowing the events to happen, she still broke the law. She has been a notary long enough to know the laws around fulfilling that role. Her penalty could possibly be reduced with a plea deal. Yet, if she shares all the details around notarizing them, she may very well be putting a very significant piece in place for the states case against her daughter.

She is in a lose lose situation and I think her and her attorney see it.

"While Gerlach brought up the request during Newcomb's previous pretrial hearing, he chose not to file a motion because "we've got so many more important matters" to focus on and her son feeding the animals has been "working out," he said after the hearing."

Prosecution 'shocked' by defense attorney in Rhoden murder case

There is no way Fred ordered or bought those vests. She didn't even know what they were called or what they were for. I don't care if you are an expert on something or not, if you order it online you are going to remember what it is called. You are going to read the description of the product which tells you what it is for and how it is used and mentions the name of it every other word so it gets stuck in your mind. That is standard advertising for products. You don't just look at a picture then click the buy button. No one does that. She is lying in that grand jury testimony about being the one who bought them and why they were bought. She is covering and taking the fall for Billy who probably used her account wit h or without her knowledge to buy them.

JMO

 

[Dudly]

Jmo he could but the exhibits he attached had the date of 5/7/16. It looks like if he fixed them he could lose his license, I don’t see risking that over a perjury/obstruction trial jmo

He may not be the one who fixed the date. He may not know they were fixed.

 

[Tiff23fr]

There is no way Fred ordered or bought those vests. She didn't even know what they were called or what they were for. I don't care if you are an expert on something or not, if you order it online you are going to remember what it is called. You are going to read the description of the product which tells you what it is for and how it is used and mentions the name of it every other word so it gets stuck in your mind. That is standard advertising for products. You don't just look at a picture then click the buy button. No one does that. She is lying in that grand jury testimony about being the one who bought them and why they were bought. She is covering and taking the fall for Billy who probably used her account wit h or without her knowledge to buy them.

JMO

I agree with you. That's why I think it's important Owens mentioned others were saying Amazon and now she is saying eBay.

In the post you responded to I was discussing Rita and documents.

 

[Puzzles8]

This is the first I have read, other than a prior poster today, that they were forged after. Can you expand?

I was still under the impression they were forged apx. April 3 as on the indictment.

https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...-Prosecutions/PikeCountyAdditionalIndictments

JMO - we really don't know the "actual date" of the forgery or the Notary's date.
It appears as if the date on the forged document was 4/3/2016.
They really could have done it anytime, before or after.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Oh, I would LOVE to do that audit (given the help of RAISINISBACK and IQuestion of course!)

I would like to do that audit with an IRS agent watching over my shoulder. I am betting between the two of us we could find plenty. LOL.

 

[Loomis124]

That last one is interesting. I wonder if it was someone who overheard a conversation or comment that FW made.

Wow. Yes, I agree! IMO, FW has faced the Enemy, and it is none other than Herself.

 

[Ann99]

BBM
No FW has not said they were replacement plates. BUT if the original plates were replaced with plates with manufactured dates after the murders, it would make it appear that the vests were bought after the murders...

Ok. TY. I get it now.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Yes, that's probably the end result the prosecution is seeking. The charges against the grandmothers, while serious, are also leverage to get them to plea bargain and save themselves, possibly pressuring their families to do the same.

Yes, it's a tough spot to be in, but not nearly as tough as that of Geneva Rhoden, Hannah Gilley's mom, Gary's (now deceased) dad Kenneth, etc.

I'm curious about how much RN knew about the murders. If these custody papers were forged after the murders, didn't she wonder why they would need them if Jake was already going to get full custody of S? Didn't she question the need for forged docs?

We still have a lot to learn about RN's case.

I think RN knew everything before it happened. Angie told her mother, bet on that.

JMO