OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#47

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  • #841
BBM
I think this is straight up the way it went. That's why Jake and Angie strolled in with those baby pics and statements of an exclusive relationship ect to present to a judge in a county where none of them lived, but a judge that they had a prior relationship with and was on good terms with who might overlook a DNA that said Jake was not the bio.

If he was the bio father he would not have had to do any of that. I am not sure he would have even had to go before a judge to get custody since if one parent dies the remaining parent should automatically have sole custody. But IANAL.

We have all wondered why Jake would go to a lawyer to change visitation that was evidently very liberal and was working just fine.

Angie said they just wanted to get on record an agreement that Jake and Hannah already had and were putting into practice.

But if Hannah signed up for Medicaid and food assistance on SW and a DNA test was done, if Jake came back as not the bio father, I am sure the W's got the shock of their lives and the scheming began, first with trying to get Hannah to sign over her rights, or trying to get her to at least sign some kind of formal joint custody. When she refused, they forged a fake guardianship document and the entire W family decided to kill anyone who could get custody after Hannah's death. I think all of this happened in the latter months of 2015 and the early months of 2016 when it seemed to all of us that things started to go downhill.

JMO

I agree with this and another thing, "if" JW isn't SW's bio father, HR may have been keeping the identity of SW's bio father to herself. She did this with her second child.

HR was very young, but I think she may have been very headstrong and determined that she was not going to allow any guy to control her. IMO, that's not a bad thing, especially when there are guys like JW out there.
 
  • #842
BBM

I've assumed the statutory rape charge was tied into SW,

It may not have even been related to Hannah at all. It could have been some other underage girl. We know Jake liked them young and naive. I can't remember if the indictment specifically named Hannah or just said an underage girl. Or Jake himself on one of his delusional ego trips could have told them him and Hannah were having sexual relations when she was underage just to prove to LE how much he loved her.

What I struggle with is why would HR allow JW to have visitation with SW if he wasn't SW's biological father?

Because the child believed Jake was her father. He was the only father she knew. It would have hurt the child more than anyone else to take that relationship from her.

Some people love their children more than they hate their ex's. So they allow the ex's to have liberal visitation with the kids because they know the only ones going to get hurt if they refuse to allow them to see their father is the children.

Kind of like what my mama used to say to people she counseled. "Your kids did not choose their father/mother, you did."

So maybe Hannah was a mother who loved her daughter more than she hated her ex.

JMO

Raisin this is from Jake's Bill of Particulars Count 23:
UNLAWFUL SEXUAL CONDUCT WITH A MINOR

It details that the under aged girl is Hanna R.
https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/20b6zw25c06qn5xt/images/30-adeeecd0b6.jpg

Here is how the same Count 23 is worded in the Original Indictment.
https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/8ws31ynk746na3a9/images/52-fd171d239c.jpg
 
  • #843
I can't believe a discussion about poor little SW is happening on here. One day she might read it *hopefully not*. She is an innocent who has a long road ahead of her to move on. Stop for a moment and think about who ya'll are talking about..a little girl. It is none of our business. IMO

You can hate Jake and the entire W family but please leave Suds out of it, remember, she TOO is a W.
 
  • #844
JMO, it appears the W's made it their full-time business to know every single detail of what was going on with the Rhodens, their properties and even what was going on inside of their homes. It wouldn't surprise me if the W's discovered that CR Sr. was growing and that might be the undercurrent of drugs that Dewine mentioned.

The Wags may have been using this to try to intimidate the R's. JW was causing HR and her family a lot of stress and worry and his shenanigans, IMO, could be construed as harassment, especially since HR was being very generous in the visitation she allowed JW with SW.

Right before the murders, JW was acting nice, but before that, he was being extremely unreasonable. It appears the R's still allowed JW on their properties, though. There are people who would have run him off with a shotgun and told him they'd see him in court.

I have a feeling the R's had the goods on JW, too, as JW wanted custody but he seemed to be avoiding going to court to try to win custody. He didn't go to court until after the R's were murdered.

JMO

BBM

I think they knew. I think th I'd not be surprised if the neighbors knew and just never reported them. JW, I see, being fearful of CR1. My ex always had his manners on point, when he was around my parents. To this day they can hardly believe what he was. My ex was a coward, especially when it came to my parents.
 
  • #845
A friend of mine who lives in Arkansas grandson received a letter saying that a girl named him as the father of her child. The letter gave him a date and time to show up at a place for the test. It did not give him a chance to admit or deny he was the father. Just an order to show up on a certain day and time.

The test came back 99% he was not the father. I can imagine him wiping the sweat from his brow in total relief as he read the results of that test. lol

JMO

We had an absolutely bizarre incident with my elderly uncle, who has Alzheimers. At the time, he was still able to physically live in his house, but only because my mom was helping him with everything. He was unable to handle his mail, bills, etc.

One day, my mom found a very recent picture of him with a much younger lady at a restaurant and she questioned him about it. He explained that this woman called him one day and told him she was the daughter of a woman he dated 45 years ago.

This woman then flew across the country, picked him up at his house, took him to a testing center where his blood was drawn. For DNA. After that, she took him out to dinner and brought him home. The only thing he really "got" out of any of this is that he got to go out to dinner.

We were incensed that this woman would do this, but she did call him back and she told him he wasn't her biological father, so at least we knew she wasn't trying to take advantage of him. He did apparently have a pretty good time at dinner!
 
  • #846
We had an absolutely bizarre incident with my elderly uncle, who has Alzheimers. At the time, he was still able to physically live in his house, but only because my mom was helping him with everything. He was unable to handle his mail, bills, etc.

One day, my mom found a very recent picture of him with a much younger lady at a restaurant and she questioned him about it. He explained that this woman called him one day and told him she was the daughter of a woman he dated 45 years ago.

This woman then flew across the country, picked him up at his house, took him to a testing center where his blood was drawn. For DNA. After that, she took him out to dinner and brought him home. The only thing he really "got" out of any of this is that he got to go out to dinner.

We were incensed that this woman would do this, but she did call him back and she told him he wasn't her biological father, so at least we knew she wasn't trying to take advantage of him. He did apparently have a pretty good time at dinner!

:eek:How odd! Sorta scary too. I guess she just wanted to know, but sort of an odd way to go about things. o_O
 
  • #847
It would and may very well be part of the evidence against the W4's.

At this point we don't know. But we do know that DeWine said custody and control of the children was the motive and that this is the most bizarre case he has ever seen.

We have all been here for months racking our brains for a reason why he wouldn't just take Hannah to court and try for custody or at least joint custody. Even if they planned a move to Alaska, if Jake had joint custody he could have tried for six months in AK with him and six months in OH with Hannah. There is a reason why he didn't do that.

Hannah wasn't growing MJ, her dad was. Her dad wasn't the one asking for custody.

Jake wasn't stealing boots or waving guns at people, his dad was. His dad wasn't the one asking for custody.

So this custody thing had to be something between Jake and Hannah.

These days joint custody is almost automatic. So there has to be a very good reason Jake thought he would not even get joint custody, so resorted to murder. Don't forget, the entire W family thought murder was the only solution. Not just the murder of Hannah. The murder of her entire family. Every single person who might be able to come back and get custody of SW if Hannah was dead even right down to a 16 year old boy who was the child's uncle.

Someone on here pointed out people disappear in those mountains all the time. We have all seen evidence of that with all the dead bodies turning up.

So why not just make Hannah disappear? Why would getting rid of just Hannah not solve the custody problem? Why did Jake drag baby pics and other evidence to a custody hearing to prove he was SW's father? I have never heard of any bio father dragging baby pics to court to prove he was the child's father. Why would he think he had to prove he was SW's father? After all her last name was Wagner and we assume his name was on her birth certificate as her father. So why would he have to prove he was with baby pics ect?

Unless a DNA test was done after they split in 2015 and it came back that Jake was not SW's bio father. At that point Jake could not have even gotten legal visitation rights let alone custody. At that point the only solution would have been if Hannah and every single one of her close relatives was dead. Even Hazel if she had married Frankie would have had a better chance to get full custody of SW than Jake who was not even related to the child.

It's just a theory, but it fits.

JMO

He may have been proving with the pictures, or trying to, the significance he had played in the child's life to that point, since everyone on the other side of the child's family was now dead and couldn't speak to the matter. He also had to prove that he was fit to be a single parent so that CPS wouldn't step in, start monitoring, or even take the child for a time for further evaluation of his situation. He had a lot to prove in a short amount of time. And everything was riding on the outcome of that ruling.

I hear what you are saying. For some reason he wasn't okay with shared parenting. For some reason the whole Wagner family wasn't okay with it.
It's my opinion only, but I do think he's the father. I don't think any child support was ever asked for or paid, or that a DNA test was done and split them up in 2015. It's my opinion only, but I think that info would have worked its way through the grapevine by now.

We're trying to apply logic to people who aren't rational at all. You might be right, maybe he isn't the bio Dad. But in cases where an individual has been acting as the non-custodial parent and finds out that they are not the bio Mom or Dad, even they are often given a court-ordered role in the child's life if they are willing to continue providing the care and support. If Jake isn't the father, as long as there's no bio Dad fighting for his rights, Jake would have always had a relationship with S, even court mandated if need be.

Someone earlier in this thread mentioned that they knew of fathers being forced to continue child support even when it's proved that the man is not the bio Dad. This happened to my cousin. The courts didn't care that the marriage split up and that the adults were getting pretty nasty (hence the paternity test). The courts cared only that he'd been acting as the child's father for 5 years and was fine not questioning paternity until the split, and he was mandated to pay....but they have since worked out co-parenting. The courts care very much about continuity in a child's life, especially young children. I don't know their rationale for not being okay with having shared time with S. I can't even imagine. What I'm pretty sure of though is that even if Jake turned out not to be her bio Dad, no one else had stepped forward, and his right to see her would not have been taken away, unless he was found to be unfit.

Now poor little S spent her 5th birthday in the care of CPS. I wonder if it ever hits the Ws how terribly they went off the rails. I wonder if any of them alone at night in their cells weep for their actions?

Sadly, when we do get answers during the trials, I don't think it'll make anymore sense to us than it does today.
 
  • #848
We had an absolutely bizarre incident with my elderly uncle, who has Alzheimers. At the time, he was still able to physically live in his house, but only because my mom was helping him with everything. He was unable to handle his mail, bills, etc.

One day, my mom found a very recent picture of him with a much younger lady at a restaurant and she questioned him about it. He explained that this woman called him one day and told him she was the daughter of a woman he dated 45 years ago.

This woman then flew across the country, picked him up at his house, took him to a testing center where his blood was drawn. For DNA. After that, she took him out to dinner and brought him home. The only thing he really "got" out of any of this is that he got to go out to dinner.

We were incensed that this woman would do this, but she did call him back and she told him he wasn't her biological father, so at least we knew she wasn't trying to take advantage of him. He did apparently have a pretty good time at dinner!

How extremely bizarre and scary! That could have gone so many different wrong ways.
 
  • #849
Oh my God! Well that sheds some light does it not? That just gave me the chills reading it. It makes me wonder greatly now if RN did know ahead of time what was planned. AJMO

Wow! It's so much more impactful once you see it in writing.
 
  • #850
What doesn't make sense to me is that they didn't need the documents, in the case of Hanna's death Jake would automatically get custody as her biological parent. UNLESS in fact, he was not her father as someone here discussed earlier. (I do believe he is the father) The only purpose it would serve is if her parents or someone wanted to challenge his custody then he could say, "look Hanna even signed this proving she wanted me to raise our child." SO why go to this much trouble
Why would he worry about her parents when he planned to kill them also? And her brothers. And her future SIL. And anyone else who could have stood in the way of his getting custody?

JMO
 
  • #851
IMO, JW was definitely the father of SW. Hanna would not share custody if he wasn't her father.

I posted the name of "one" of the forged documents, the only one we have seen in Discovery. There could be more.

I believe the reason others are charged with forgery is because they signed as witnesses or elsewhere. The reason this particular form was done was in case JW and/or GW4 were killed, too.

And of course, most importantly, to get SW.

All JMO
DeWine said these murders were over custody. So apparently she wasn't willing to share custody with him.

JMO
 
  • #852
DeWine said these murders were over custody. So apparently she wasn't willing to share custody with him.

JMO
I think the W's weren't willing to share custody with her!
 
  • #853
So do you think then that JW's name wasn't even on SW's birth certificate?
I don't know, but if it is then something changed after Jake and Hannah split.

JMO
 
  • #854
RSBM

I think it was because they were never married. From the same link: Does a Father Have Rights Even if the Will Gives Guardianship to the Grandparents? "If you acknowledged paternity but never sought a custody order to establish visitation or parenting time with your child, custody can’t automatically revert to you when her mother dies. If you find yourself in this situation, confer with an attorney."

I think the W's issue was getting 100% custody of the child, they weren't settling for no 'visitation rights'.

BBM

But....the grandparents were not alive at the time Jake and Angie strolled into that court room to con a judge into giving him sole custody. Jake and crew took care of that before hand.

I think Jake did confer with an attorney. Angie said they did.

I think they found out that as long as Hannah or any close relative to SW was alive Jake didn't have a snowball's chance in Hades of getting custody or anything else.

JMO
 
  • #855
Raisin this is from Jake's Bill of Particulars Count 23:
UNLAWFUL SEXUAL CONDUCT WITH A MINOR

It details that the under aged girl is Hanna R.
https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/20b6zw25c06qn5xt/images/30-adeeecd0b6.jpg

Here is how the same Count 23 is worded in the Original Indictment.
https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/8ws31ynk746na3a9/images/52-fd171d239c.jpg

Thank you CC. But how did LE get that information? Did Jake provide it in one of his interviews? Or by other means?

JMO
 
  • #856
I can't believe a discussion about poor little SW is happening on here. One day she might read it *hopefully not*. She is an innocent who has a long road ahead of her to move on. Stop for a moment and think about who ya'll are talking about..a little girl. It is none of our business. IMO

You can hate Jake and the entire W family but please leave Suds out of it, remember, she TOO is a W.

I would like to leave her out of it, believe me. But from the moment DeWine said the motive was custody of her it is impossible to discuss this crime without mentioning her. The best we can do is use her initials, which I have faithfully done along with an effort to use first names only of the victims and suspects.

I have a feeling that by the time she gets old enough to read this on WS, she is going to hear a lot worse things about Jake and the W's.

And all those newspaper articles about the murders and trials are going to be a whole lot easier to find than some thread on WS.

In conclusion, there is no way to shield this little girl from all this. Like it or not, DeWine made her a major part of it.

JMO
 
  • #857
I would like to leave her out of it, believe me. But from the moment DeWine said the motive was custody of her it is impossible to discuss this crime without mentioning her. The best we can do is use her initials, which I have faithfully done along with an effort to use first names only of the victims and suspects.

I have a feeling that by the time she gets old enough to read this on WS, she is going to hear a lot worse things about Jake and the W's.

And all those newspaper articles about the murders and trials are going to be a whole lot easier to find than some thread on WS.

In conclusion, there is no way to shield this little girl from all this. Like it or not, DeWine made her a major part of it.

JMO




I am specifically referring to the discussion about her parentage, none of us know that personal information, and really what does it matter.

The family all accepted that JW was indeed the biological parent as did his family. Little one loved him regardless. Does it really matter? Besides, the discussion reflects poorly on HR as well. JMO
 
  • #858
:eek:How odd! Sorta scary too. I guess she just wanted to know, but sort of an odd way to go about things. o_O

We were very taken back at how she went about this, considering his age. Fortunately, no harm was done.
 
  • #859
I think they found out that as long as Hannah or any close relative to SW was alive Jake didn't have a snowball's chance in Hades of getting custody or anything else.

JMO

I agree with that. I think the W's wanted the same result they'd had for GW4, but realized it wasn't going to be possible. I missed the info about the timing on GW4's custody situation, anyone know that?
 
  • #860
According to the indictment they are charged with ongoing hacking ect even after the murders, up until the time they left for AK.
Thanks RB, that one just flew right over my head when I read them, more than once lol
 
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