OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#47

[GoBuckeyes]

BBM
I think this is straight up the way it went. That's why Jake and Angie strolled in with those baby pics and statements of an exclusive relationship ect to present to a judge in a county where none of them lived, but a judge that they had a prior relationship with and was on good terms with who might overlook a DNA that said Jake was not the bio.

If he was the bio father he would not have had to do any of that. I am not sure he would have even had to go before a judge to get custody since if one parent dies the remaining parent should automatically have sole custody. But IANAL.

We have all wondered why Jake would go to a lawyer to change visitation that was evidently very liberal and was working just fine.

Angie said they just wanted to get on record an agreement that Jake and Hannah already had and were putting into practice.

But if Hannah signed up for Medicaid and food assistance on SW and a DNA test was done, if Jake came back as not the bio father, I am sure the W's got the shock of their lives and the scheming began, first with trying to get Hannah to sign over her rights, or trying to get her to at least sign some kind of formal joint custody. When she refused, they forged a fake guardianship document and the entire W family decided to kill anyone who could get custody after Hannah's death. I think all of this happened in the latter months of 2015 and the early months of 2016 when it seemed to all of us that things started to go downhill.

JMO

To me the Ws seem like a family to whom blood is everything. That's just the sense I get. Do you think Jake would have insisted on a relationship with a daughter who wasn't his biologically speaking, or that he didn't adopt? What are your thoughts and everyone else's on the matter? Curious to hear other's ideas on this.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Raisin this is from Jake's Bill of Particulars Count 23:
UNLAWFUL SEXUAL CONDUCT WITH A MINOR

It details that the under aged girl is Hanna R.
https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/20b6zw25c06qn5xt/images/30-adeeecd0b6.jpg

Here is how the same Count 23 is worded in the Original Indictment.
https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/8ws31ynk746na3a9/images/52-fd171d239c.jpg

Ironically, Jake provided the exact timetable for the police in his sworn affidavit to the court when he applied for custody.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

To me the Ws seem like a family to whom blood is everything. That's just the sense I get. Do you think Jake would have insisted on a relationship with a daughter who wasn't his biologically speaking, or that he didn't adopt? What are your thoughts and everyone else's on the matter? Curious to hear other's ideas on this.

I think Jake loves SW more than anything else.

I think that love began the moment she was born.

And I do not think that love for her would end if he found out after he split from her mother when she was 3 years old that she was not his bio child. I think he would still love her more than anything and do anything he could to keep her in his life.

Ditto for Angie.

JMO

 

[GoBuckeyes]

It matters as far as understanding why the W's killed the R's. It matters as far as motive.

There is no doubt that Jake loved SW. There is no doubt that SW loved him as the only dad she ever knew.

BBM
Besides, the discussion reflects poorly on HR as well.

How does it reflect poorly on Hannah? This is 2019 not the 1950's. A woman has the right to have a relationship with whomever she chooses. Whether she sleeps with one man or one thousand men it is her choice and no one has the right to try to sl..t shame her because of her choices. So again how does it reflect poorly on Hannah?

JMO

SUPERB POST!!

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I think Jake loves SW more than anything else.

I think that love began the moment she was born.

And I do not think that love for her would end if he found out after he split from her mother when she was 3 years old that she was not his bio child. I think he would still love her more than anything and do anything he could to keep her in his life.

Ditto for Angie.

JMO

It's so tragic that out of all of that love for S, could come this twisted, evil plot that will insure that none of the Ws have a relationship w S. Very sad.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

O/T A little bit of crime humor to lighten our day.

Parrot taken into custody after tipping off crack dealers about cops | BrainCharm

 

[Satchie]

That is what I don't get. He didn't say "She is my child" he said "I am sure she is my child."

To me that shows doubt. Words matter.

For example if hubby said to me "I am sure he is my son" instead of stating outright "he is my son" I would bop him upside the head to ring his bell and remove all doubt.

JMO

Yes, words matter, and those words were stated in a court of law, not a personal relationship.

I think the issue of doubt about parentage had been raised earlier in the affidavit, where JW states he is unsure of the parentage of one child. So, he isn't claiming custody of that child. But he is claiming custody of this one, because he is sure.

It is legally accurate to say 'I'm sure', rather than 'I am', because, apparently, no DNA test had been done.

DNA testing was done later, but I'm not sure (!) of the scope of that.

 

[Loomis124]

I'm speculating. I apologize. But it seems that, whether or not it was meant to be, Jake viewed this as a custody hearing and home study all rolled up into one proceeding. Often, merely proving a biological relationship isn't enough to satisfy CPS when it comes to a small child and a major change in custody. This case also included trauma and grief with the loss of her Mom. He needed to prove a prior relationship with the child and prove the home a suitable living environment. This was his chance to do that all at once in court. I'm going off of comments from other posters concerning the pictures. I have no knowledge of them, but I believe the posters on here who have referenced them.

By being awarded full custody on the spot at the hearing he was able to:

-keep CPS out of their home and their lives (can you imagine what they might have found going through the home early on in this case? What extensive interviews with the children might have revealed?)

-have the legal right to take the child anywhere he chose

-could leave for parts unknown at any time, without having to get prior authorization from anyone

-could begin to shape and control public opinion (whose heart wouldn't go out to a grieving, single Dad?)

-and I'm sure I've missed several additional things he "accomplished" in the hearing.

What I do find to be EXTREMELY WEIRD is his wording on the document he submitted to court. Nothing says love like, "cohabitation and exclusive romantic relationship." Sheeesh!! I believe he is the bio-father, but how easily he could have caused suspicion with using that phrase multiple times!

It sounds to me like he was coached (badly). His writing to my ears comes across cold as a well, fill in whatever phrase you prefer. AJM2C

GB, can you share the custody document he submitted? And pics--what is that all about? Also when did he submit it? Sorry, I haven't been able to keep up. Thank you.

 

[Dudly]

See this is what bothers me. Why jump through all those hoops if Jake is the bio? Why not just present a DNA test and be done with it?
BBM

"After presentation of the evidence, the Court finds that there has been a change in the circumstances of the child and/or custodial parent, specifically: the Mother, Hanna May Rhoden is deceased; and that changing the residential parent and legal custodian is in the best interests of the child."

This wording of the Court makes me think the judge knows he is not the bio but has decided that it is in the best interest of the child to award custody to Jake because of the prior father daughter relationship between them. I just find it extremely odd that he had to do all this (statements, baby pics, dragging mama in on it, having granny forge documents) when a simple DNA test would have said it all.

JMO

If he is on the birth certificate, why would he need to do any convincing to a judge? I could never understand why that was needed.

 

[Dudly]

I cannot believe how things get entirely changed and distorted on here from where they originally began. Lord. It's like one of those gossip games played at parties where the ending story turns out to be totally different than it started. Sad.

Explain please....

 

[Dudly]

I'm speculating. I apologize. But it seems that, whether or not it was meant to be, Jake viewed this as a custody hearing and home study all rolled up into one proceeding. Often, merely proving a biological relationship isn't enough to satisfy CPS when it comes to a small child and a major change in custody. This case also included trauma and grief with the loss of her Mom. He needed to prove a prior relationship with the child and prove the home a suitable living environment. This was his chance to do that all at once in court. I'm going off of comments from other posters concerning the pictures. I have no knowledge of them, but I believe the posters on here who have referenced them.

By being awarded full custody on the spot at the hearing he was able to:

-keep CPS out of their home and their lives (can you imagine what they might have found going through the home early on in this case? What extensive interviews with the children might have revealed?)

-have the legal right to take the child anywhere he chose

-could leave for parts unknown at any time, without having to get prior authorization from anyone

-could begin to shape and control public opinion (whose heart wouldn't go out to a grieving, single Dad?)

-and I'm sure I've missed several additional things he "accomplished" in the hearing.

What I do find to be EXTREMELY WEIRD is his wording on the document he submitted to court. Nothing says love like, "cohabitation and exclusive romantic relationship." Sheeesh!! I believe he is the bio-father, but how easily he could have caused suspicion with using that phrase multiple times!

It sounds to me like he was coached (badly). His writing to my ears comes across cold as a well, fill in whatever phrase you prefer. AJM2C

BBM
Especially in their mothers' homes to boot!!! That makes it better love yet...

 

[sunshineray]

To me the Ws seem like a family to whom blood is everything. That's just the sense I get. Do you think Jake would have insisted on a relationship with a daughter who wasn't his biologically speaking, or that he didn't adopt? What are your thoughts and everyone else's on the matter? Curious to hear other's ideas on this.

Well from the horse's mouth was said about lil KR, even it turns out that she's not mine I will still want mandatory visitation rights. Bizarre. JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

He didn't have to bring them, but he did, as proof. Page 3 of the papers he filed for temp custody states that he is sure that she is his. He provided photos of him, and S, as toddlers, to show that she resembles him. He also mentions the "hammer toe", next to the big toe as a familial trait (loosely worded).

How can I find this. Sounds interesting.

 

[molly1255]

I can only think from that, his name couldn't have been on SW's birth certificate? Wouldn't showing that have proven legally with one document what all the other things were meant to show in accumulation?

IDK. I read that the father's name is not provided on KR's birth certificate, so HR may have done the same with SW.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Your exactly right Loomis24 it is out of hand over if Jake the Killer is SW real father or not, it don’t matter the Rhoden Family was apparently killed of custody of her anyway,I don’t think the Wagners where planning a trip to Alaska at all to need full SW custody , that’s another one of their lies they ran to Alaska to get out of site out of mind, the Wagners got mad at the Rhoden around 2014 that was the same time that SW was born, computer hacking was going on, Jake was in my opinion insanely jealous of HR, in COol Cats post he wrote that JW and HR lived part time with each other’s mothers, while he worked,HR went to school, that’s why he was watching her every move he thought she was talking with other boys, Jake and his family are crazy he probably did beat HR, I would say that AW was putting evert bad thought in JW head at the time, JMO SW is Jakes daughter and he wasn’t going to let a strange man raise his child and I’m sure that SW, FW and BW was backing him in the threats in the months prior to the killings, all the rumors of the door kicking down, the fight between CRSR and BW is all true, I still don’t know why GW4 went alone with unless he was under mommy control, also in the OX show GW4 ex-in-laws sided with the Wagners because they depended on FW for income, the sister in-law let her tongue slip on a few things about AW and HR was in some kid of bad disagreement months prior to the murders and she made it a point to call BW (Bad Billy) and said he was a hard worker but no one messed with BW, so if CRSR wiped BadBilly than that started a chain reaction for revenge.

To me the Ws seem like a family to whom blood is everything. That's just the sense I get. Do you think Jake would have insisted on a relationship with a daughter who wasn't his biologically speaking, or that he didn't adopt? What are your thoughts and everyone else's on the matter? Curious to hear other's ideas on this.

You summed it up well @Johnny B Bad. And @GoBuckeyes I think Jake DNA tested Sophia the day she was born. She is his I would bet anything on it.

Come on people, DNA testing is so easy now-a-days. Even Billy would know how to do it.

 

[ChickaDee221]

People on here want to bring out court records of Dana Rhoden, what about Angela Wagner, she was caught shoplifting, stealing off her employers from the boot factory plus some kind of road rage, and Billy Wagner he gets caught with stolen property from a high school, 2 stolen dirt bikes and road rage charges don’t forget get about FW she has been involved in a lot of law suits ether her filed it or several people file suit against her, for someone to live at the foot of the cross she shore does have a lot of bad animals sell and eviction, Now the Wagner family is tie into a mass murder case, and somebody want to say Dana had a few family court case in her past is nothing compared to the Wagners past JMO

I thought these people were the in the upper echelon of this community ? But, what I am reading is that they were thieves who scammed everyone.
What am I missing here. Why do they keep saying "prominent"? Is that for headlines?
At this point I am not even sure Grandma has money. Just assets.

One last question... Why have none of our favorite TC podcasts covered this story? Is it off limits until some sort of prosecution?
TCG, S&S, GW, Crawlspace. Not a single episode. Is that weird?

 

[ChickaDee221]

I was out for 2 weeks (studying) and I am lost all over again! Dang it.
There are so many what ifs. I can't keep up.

So my questions are :
What exactly were the R's assets? Property in that part of Ohio is cheap. Right? Maybe between the land and dwellings, $150k? And, that would all go to HR's babies?
It's said the weed amounted to no more than a year's worth of personal use?
As far as custody goes, wouldn't you need to know 100% that a child is yours before you decide to slaughter 8 people in their homes? If there was any question about that (paternity) a test would have had to have been done. Otherwise, why would they have killed them? Over a child that would inherit nothing from the W estate. Confusing.
Does anyone have FW's (I hope those are the right initials for Granny) criminal record?
I ask this because the W4 seemed to be nothing but petty thieves and scam artists who were CAUGHT. I do not believe that if you can steal from yoir employers and get caught, or get caught with stolen property that you would be smart enough to plan this entire execution.

IMO : And, I am sure it is an unpopular one, FW has something more to do with this than just the doc situation. I just don't think that the W4 is smart enough to plan this. But, someone who roated funds to avoid God only knows what between businesses and was able to keep those businesses all these years without fraud detection would be. I know it sounds crazy, but I look at her and see, someone who said jump, and everyone asked how high.

Again, that's just my opinion. I'm still learning the ins and outs of this case. I know some of you have dedicated years of research, and could tell me a million reasons why I am wrong... Just don't be harsh about it, please.

 

[ChickaDee221]

I do not think they were in Alaska in May 2017---my opinion only---because the Jackson Days Inn Trash Pull was done on June 8 , 2017.

We know the Wagner's were gone during the Friday May 12 and Saturday May 13 searches of their former Peeble's farm property and their trailers that were stored at the car lot. They had sold their Peterson Rd. property in March and were not living on it during the searches.

So to me it makes no sense that the Wagner's would be in Alaska in May, then turn around and travel to, and be in, Jackson Ohio on June 8th, then go back to Alaska later in June. They had a conversation with an Alaskan neighbor in June so we know they were in Alaska in June.

I think they took off from Ohio in May (because the heat was on) and did their stay in the Jackson Days Inn and then did their Montana and Missouri property transactions (according to the evidence) and then ended up in Alaska sometime during the month of June.

Just my speculation from what little we have to go on from the evidence released to the media.

Wow. They are keeping an unusually tight ship, considering this case is so high profile.

Oh, and to complicate the month of May 2017 even more, there were, according to the evidence, about a dozen interviews with the Wagner's in the month of May, 2017. 99% of them were audio interviews. That means all these interviews could have been long distance, away from Ohio.........?

I'm going to agree with you, for one reason only. It's because I don't believe that they had any money. I don't know why I think that. But, I think they had more property than actually physical free cash.
I do however believe that after the property transactions they would have the money to go to Alaska.
That's JMO.
Maybe someone has seen banking info that can prove me wrong.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

It's so tragic that out of all of that love for S, could come this twisted, evil plot that will insure that none of the Ws have a relationship w S. Very sad.

There something more to the Rhoden and Gilley murders, remember Big Chris was shot 9 times, Dana 5 times, Hannah Gilley 5 times, little Chris 4 times, Frankie 4 times, Gary 3 times, Hanna R 2 times and Kenny 1 time, why was there only Kenny and Hanna R shot so few times, 1 Head shot should have killed anyone no more than 2 they try to fix the corpse to where there could be no open casket funeral, all but HR and KR, the killers displayed a lot of hate and revenge for something that we don’t know yet, JMO but I think something to do with the marijuana and money, Wagners go crazy either making money or losing money, if you read all FW court case it about her suing someone over land contracts to get her money or getting sued over beating someone out of money over a bad animal deal, I bet when it comes out there money involved, JMO

 

[ChickaDee221]

There something more to the Rhoden and Gilley murders, remember Big Chris was shot 9 times, Dana 5 times, Hannah Gilley 5 times, little Chris 4 times, Frankie 4 times, Gary 3 times, Hanna R 2 times and Kenny 1 time, why was there only Kenny and Hanna R shot so few times, 1 Head shot should have killed anyone no more than 2 they try to fix the corpse to where there could be no open casket funeral, all but HR and KR, the killers displayed a lot of hate and revenge for something that we don’t know yet, JMO but I think something to do with the marijuana and money, Wagners go crazy either making money or losing money, if you read all FW court case it about her suing someone over land contracts to get her money or getting sued over beating someone out of money over a bad animal deal, I bet when it comes out there money involved, JMO

I would actually be really interested in reading the info about FW's court cases. Do you have a link or something? In my mind, I feel like I have a sense of the kind of person she is. I want to know if I am right.
"My money, or else." "My way or else." Kind of person.
With money comes power. And, there are people who don't like to lose either of those and who will do anything to keep it.
JMO.