OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#47

[ChickaDee221]

So, is it my understanding that (now, I haven't made it all the way back to thread #1) there are NO other suspects in this case? That this is it? These people are without a doubt (innocent until proven guilty) the one who committed these crimes? I ask, because reading through threads, there is at least someone who will give an alternative. But, all of you seem to be on the same page as far as who did this. Even when it happened, were there others that LE considered? Or has it always been, the W's?
And, someone stated the mob connection, I do not think these idiots (because I seriously think they are dim wits) would still be alive of there was any connection to the mob. They wouldn't want it traced to them. There generally isn't very much news surrounding murder commited by the mafia because they don't get caught. JMO on that.
(I know I am posting a lot, but I am getting caught up and these are just my thoughts as I am reading)

 

[rsd1200]

I'm going to agree with you, for one reason only. It's because I don't believe that they had any money. I don't know why I think that. But, I think they had more property than actually physical free cash.
I do however believe that after the property transactions they would have the money to go to Alaska.
That's JMO.
Maybe someone has seen banking info that can prove me wrong.

I tend to agree.

 

[Merrygirl]

Independent Baptist or Independent Fundamentalist Baptist. Charlatan - possibly - I often see the person I know doing things for personal gain when claiming separation from the secular. Claims his pastor says it's okay. Stuff I would think is immoral for a conservative religious person to do. But he can self-justify dang near anything and be so articulate about it.

He's a bit careful around me, because I told him long ago I was raised by a fundamentalist and can barf the bible.

I decided to educate myself on the beliefs of Fred’s relation and how it differs from my own (Roman Catholic). I was hoping that it might shed some light on the impact of religion with the family dynamics. BOY WAS THIS AN EYE OPENER! What We Believe

 

[Merrygirl]

Thanks. I waited several times, and checked my download monitor in case it was a .pdf. Just never did get anything.

I suppose the 99% of us would have to know what we're looking for.

It is a PDF. I made a screen shot so now I have it in jpeg but don’t know if it is against TOS here.

 

[Merrygirl]

As I mentioned above, a guardianship applies when both parents are deceased.

"A guardian may be appointed for a child who is under 18 years old because the parents are deceased or because the parents are unable or unsuitable to care for the child."
Guardianship for a Child Fact Sheet

I think these documents were prepared in case JW and/or GW4 were killed during the massacre, some of the R's had guns.

Since that didn't happen, the documents were never used.

I wonder whether there was a fourth document forged, for the mother of GW4s child, but it hasn't been included in the charges to protect her privacy.

Count #3 is for GW4. Maybe he didn’t think he would need his ex to sign (or someone forge) since he had custody?

 

[Merrygirl]

Whatever their plan for the use of the forged custody documents, it does appear to show intent to murder Hanna Rhoden. The timing of the forgeries, around the time they began planning the murders, monitoring the victims electronic communications (phones, email, possibly security cams, etc. ) is also very incriminating. Add that in with the purchase of supplies and equipment to carry out the murders and it seems pretty clear what the W's were up to.

The forged custody docs show that the custody issue was the main motive for the murders. Even the W's were smart enough to realize they wouldn't be able to kill Hanna without the whole family coming after them. I'm kind of in agreement with the theory that GW4 and JW were included in the guardianship documents in case they were killed in the process. I've always thought it was AW who was the one most obsessed with getting S away from Hanna, apparently at any cost. She's one crazy woman.

IIRC, the custody docs were dated on 4/6/16. The reported (but yet unverified) fight between CRsr and BW supposedly occurred about 3 wks prior to the murders. Maybe this is what the huge blow up was over. JMO

 

[Merrygirl]

BBM

And Dana was not SW's legal guardian, Hannah was.

JMO but Dana was still in child bearing years and SW’s last name was Rhoden. Maybe she claimed SW as her child for insurance purposes only. Insurance companies don’t ask for proof.

 

[molly1255]

This was probably discussed previously and I missed the discussion, but I didn't realize the W's surveillance of the R's began around July 1, 2014, per their indictments.

SW was born in Nov 2013. Per JW's custody affidavit, he and HR were in an exclusive, romantic relationship that included living together until March 2015, when HR ended the exclusive part of their relationship as well as their cohabitation. HR completely ended their relationship in Sept. 2015.

I'm surprised the spying and collection of information on the R's started so early on, when HR was still apparently with JW.

 

[Merrygirl]

See this is what bothers me. Why jump through all those hoops if Jake is the bio? Why not just present a DNA test and be done with it?
BBM

"After presentation of the evidence, the Court finds that there has been a change in the circumstances of the child and/or custodial parent, specifically: the Mother, Hanna May Rhoden is deceased; and that changing the residential parent and legal custodian is in the best interests of the child."

This wording of the Court makes me think the judge knows he is not the bio but has decided that it is in the best interest of the child to award custody to Jake because of the prior father daughter relationship between them. I just find it extremely odd that he had to do all this (statements, baby pics, dragging mama in on it, having granny forge documents) when a simple DNA test would have said it all.

JMO

I’m just guessing here but I am assuming the reason he didn’t initially go to court to secure custody before the murders was because it was going to cost $. Also, this may be why HR didn’t ask for Medicaid support because he not only would have to pay for DNA (~$300+)but also would be assigned to pay child support. He put in the documents that he worked on the farm and drove a semi so he had some income. He was trying to skirt the courts cuz of the cost but wanted to get everything in writing by a cheaper method.

 

[OhioBlues]

I would actually be really interested in reading the info about FW's court cases. Do you have a link or something? In my mind, I feel like I have a sense of the kind of person she is. I want to know if I am right.
"My money, or else." "My way or else." Kind of person.
With money comes power. And, there are people who don't like to lose either of those and who will do anything to keep it.
JMO.

Google shows some cases. I would like to know if there are any prior to the internet.

 

[OhioBlues]

D

 

[OhioBlues]

I’m just guessing here but I am assuming the reason he didn’t initially go to court to secure custody before the murders was because it was going to cost $. Also, this may be why HR didn’t ask for Medicaid support because he not only would have to pay for DNA (~$300+)but also would be assigned to pay child support. He put in the documents that he worked on the farm and drove a semi so he had some income. He was trying to skirt the courts cuz of the cost but wanted to get everything in writing by a cheaper method.

Do we know if HR was receiving Medicaid for SW? I have heard that stated but I am not certain. If it's true and accurate SW wasn't receiving Medicaid then my theory could be different now. Tia. Jmo.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I was out for 2 weeks (studying) and I am lost all over again! Dang it.
There are so many what ifs. I can't keep up.

So my questions are :
What exactly were the R's assets? Property in that part of Ohio is cheap. Right? Maybe between the land and dwellings, $150k? And, that would all go to HR's babies?
It's said the weed amounted to no more than a year's worth of personal use?
As far as custody goes, wouldn't you need to know 100% that a child is yours before you decide to slaughter 8 people in their homes? If there was any question about that (paternity) a test would have had to have been done. Otherwise, why would they have killed them? Over a child that would inherit nothing from the W estate. Confusing.
Does anyone have FW's (I hope those are the right initials for Granny) criminal record?
I ask this because the W4 seemed to be nothing but petty thieves and scam artists who were CAUGHT. I do not believe that if you can steal from yoir employers and get caught, or get caught with stolen property that you would be smart enough to plan this entire execution.

IMO : And, I am sure it is an unpopular one, FW has something more to do with this than just the doc situation. I just don't think that the W4 is smart enough to plan this. But, someone who roated funds to avoid God only knows what between businesses and was able to keep those businesses all these years without fraud detection would be. I know it sounds crazy, but I look at her and see, someone who said jump, and everyone asked how high.

Again, that's just my opinion. I'm still learning the ins and outs of this case. I know some of you have dedicated years of research, and could tell me a million reasons why I am wrong... Just don't be harsh about it, please.

Your opinion isn't unpopular. Many have suggested that FW likely knew beforehand or even played a significant role in the planning. All we know right now is that she's not charged with murder. I think it's quite possible FW may have played a significant part, but at this point, there's not enough evidence on her. That may never change, or it may change, it all depends upon 1) is she really played a part before, during, or after the murders, and 2) whether or not one of the Ws will flip. AJMO

 

[ChickaDee221]

I decided to educate myself on the beliefs of Fred’s relation and how it differs from my own (Roman Catholic). I was hoping that it might shed some light on the impact of religion with the family dynamics. BOY WAS THIS AN EYE OPENER! What We Believe

Married into a hardcore Southern Baptist family (though my husband broke out, my in laws practice) as a Catholic. It is.... Interesting (jmo)

 

[ChickaDee221]

Your opinion isn't unpopular. Many have suggested that FW likely knew beforehand or even played a significant role in the planning. All we know right now is that she's not charged with murder. I think it's quite possible FW may have played a significant part, but at this point, there's not enough evidence on her. That may never change, or it may change, it all depends upon 1) is she really played a part before, during, or after the murders, and 2) whether or not one of the Ws will flip. AJMO

I would put money on it that no one ever flips on Fredricka Wagner.

 

[Cool Cats]

I would actually be really interested in reading the info about FW's court cases. Do you have a link or something? In my mind, I feel like I have a sense of the kind of person she is. I want to know if I am right.
"My money, or else." "My way or else." Kind of person.
With money comes power. And, there are people who don't like to lose either of those and who will do anything to keep it.
JMO.

Highlighted by me.....

Displaying all 5 matches.

Party/Company

Case Number

WAGNER, FREDERICKA Plaintiff 11/29/2006 2006CIV000475 FORECLOSURES Closed
WAGNER, FREDERICKA Plaintiff 01/17/2008 2008CIV000028 OTHER CIVIL Closed
WAGNER, FREDERICKA Plaintiff 03/11/2008 2008CIV000113 OTHER CIVIL Closed
WAGNER, FREDERICKA Plaintiff 06/10/2009 2009CIV000269 OTHER CIVIL Closed
WAGNER, FREDERICKA CAROL Defendant 11/13/2018 2018CR000159 OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE Open

Wagner - This Case is a Dog | Tortious Interference | Summary Judgment

Fredricka & George Wagner (Flying W American Mastiffs) are using two of my dogs on their website - please look
"That just goes to show that they are so ashamed of their own dogs they can't even use them in advertising.
Go get'em Jann"

Fredericka Wagner/Flying W Farms arrested in Pike County, Ohio murders. - Chronicle Forums
Nov. 23, 2018, 01:57 PM
"Huh. I bought Wonder Pony from them.

The possible drug stuff? Makes so much sense. Something definitely didn't seem right, but I ignored it.

On the day I was supposed to wire money, Fredericka called me and said Angela had quoted me the wrong price on the mare. Suddenly, Wonder Pony is 'one of the best horses' they'd ever bred and worth way more money.

Interesting. Then why weren't you taking better care of her?

Anyway. I told her no deal and walked. She called me back ASAP and said never mind, we'll take the original offer."
_______________________________________________________________

Nov. 21, 2018, 09:16 PM
"I have been reading about those murders but never connected "those" Wagners to Flying W Farms. In the 60's when I got my first Arabian I was warned off of Flying W Farms by the breeders of my horse. Apparently they had a dicey reputation that far back.

The whole case is seriously disturbing. "

 

[Tiff23fr]

Highlighted by me.....

Displaying all 5 matches.

Party/Company

Case Number

WAGNER, FREDERICKA Plaintiff 11/29/2006 2006CIV000475 FORECLOSURES Closed
WAGNER, FREDERICKA Plaintiff 01/17/2008 2008CIV000028 OTHER CIVIL Closed
WAGNER, FREDERICKA Plaintiff 03/11/2008 2008CIV000113 OTHER CIVIL Closed
WAGNER, FREDERICKA Plaintiff 06/10/2009 2009CIV000269 OTHER CIVIL Closed
WAGNER, FREDERICKA CAROL Defendant 11/13/2018 2018CR000159 OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE Open

Wagner - This Case is a Dog | Tortious Interference | Summary Judgment

Fredricka & George Wagner (Flying W American Mastiffs) are using two of my dogs on their website - please look
"That just goes to show that they are so ashamed of their own dogs they can't even use them in advertising.
Go get'em Jann"

Fredericka Wagner/Flying W Farms arrested in Pike County, Ohio murders. - Chronicle Forums
Nov. 23, 2018, 01:57 PM
"Huh. I bought Wonder Pony from them.

The possible drug stuff? Makes so much sense. Something definitely didn't seem right, but I ignored it.

On the day I was supposed to wire money, Fredericka called me and said Angela had quoted me the wrong price on the mare. Suddenly, Wonder Pony is 'one of the best horses' they'd ever bred and worth way more money.

Interesting. Then why weren't you taking better care of her?

Anyway. I told her no deal and walked. She called me back ASAP and said never mind, we'll take the original offer."
_______________________________________________________________

Nov. 21, 2018, 09:16 PM
"I have been reading about those murders but never connected "those" Wagners to Flying W Farms. In the 60's when I got my first Arabian I was warned off of Flying W Farms by the breeders of my horse. Apparently they had a dicey reputation that far back.

The whole case is seriously disturbing. "

Some more information on the animal suits can be found on pacer if you have access.

Answering your, OH Blues, and one another posters questions about past cases before internet archives: yes, 3 or 4 other cases or lawsuits/money things are referenced in old newspaper archives. I ran them by moderators previously requesting approval for posting with references to old newspaper images, but mods felt they are irrelevant to the murders of the case at hand and have requested they not be posted.

 

[Cool Cats]

Some more information on the animal suits can be found on pacer if you have access.

Answering your, OH Blues, and one another posters questions about past cases before internet archives: yes, 3 or 4 other cases or lawsuits/money things are referenced in old newspaper archives. I ran them by moderators previously requesting approval for posting with references to old newspaper images, but mods felt they are irrelevant to the murders of the case at hand and have requested they not be posted.

Ok thankx did not know. I can check pacer. Went back to delete some of my post but it's too late. But again thankx, I don't want to be posting information that the mods feel is not relevant to the case at hand and am glad when someone speaks up. No problem. I just want to share helpful information and enjoy reading all the information that others, like you, share on here.

 

[ChickaDee221]

Highlighted by me.....

Displaying all 5 matches.

Party/Company

Case Number

WAGNER, FREDERICKA Plaintiff 11/29/2006 2006CIV000475 FORECLOSURES Closed
WAGNER, FREDERICKA Plaintiff 01/17/2008 2008CIV000028 OTHER CIVIL Closed
WAGNER, FREDERICKA Plaintiff 03/11/2008 2008CIV000113 OTHER CIVIL Closed
WAGNER, FREDERICKA Plaintiff 06/10/2009 2009CIV000269 OTHER CIVIL Closed
WAGNER, FREDERICKA CAROL Defendant 11/13/2018 2018CR000159 OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE Open

Wagner - This Case is a Dog | Tortious Interference | Summary Judgment

Fredricka & George Wagner (Flying W American Mastiffs) are using two of my dogs on their website - please look
"That just goes to show that they are so ashamed of their own dogs they can't even use them in advertising.
Go get'em Jann"

Fredericka Wagner/Flying W Farms arrested in Pike County, Ohio murders. - Chronicle Forums
Nov. 23, 2018, 01:57 PM
"Huh. I bought Wonder Pony from them.

The possible drug stuff? Makes so much sense. Something definitely didn't seem right, but I ignored it.

On the day I was supposed to wire money, Fredericka called me and said Angela had quoted me the wrong price on the mare. Suddenly, Wonder Pony is 'one of the best horses' they'd ever bred and worth way more money.

Interesting. Then why weren't you taking better care of her?

Anyway. I told her no deal and walked. She called me back ASAP and said never mind, we'll take the original offer."
_______________________________________________________________

Nov. 21, 2018, 09:16 PM
"I have been reading about those murders but never connected "those" Wagners to Flying W Farms. In the 60's when I got my first Arabian I was warned off of Flying W Farms by the breeders of my horse. Apparently they had a dicey reputation that far back.

The whole case is seriously disturbing. "

Thank you. I appreciate it.

 

[OhioBlues]

Ok thankx did not know. I can check pacer. Went back to delete some of my post but it's too late. But again thankx, I don't want to be posting information that the mods feel is not relevant to the case at hand and am glad when someone speaks up. No problem. I just want to share helpful information and enjoy reading all the information that others, like you, share on here.

I think that you are doing a great job but understand the mods decision.