OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#48

[Betty P]

Yes, that’s correct. Actually point blank range specifies, that while the trajectory is close, it’s not close enough to be a contact wound.

Point-blank range - Wikipedia

Agree. I think Johnny B has a good point, though. Even if close range, there would still be victim DNA on the silencer. I wonder if that had still been preserved by the time LE finally found it? Actually, the victims' DNA would have been on all the weapons used, killer's clothing, etc. Awful to think about - just a bloodbath.

That's always been interesting to me - what information did they get that finally directed them to the location of the silencer part? I'm very glad someone came forward or figured out a new place to look. We don't know yet what happened but will find out.

 

[Merrygirl]

Thank you! I don’t remember this article back in September but there were quite a few. I appreciate you clarifying.

Rhodens shot in head at point-blank range

Here is Channel 9 video
Rhodens shot in head at point-blank range

 

[FrescaandSouthernComfort]

Agree. I think Johnny B has a good point, though. Even if close range, there would still be victim DNA on the silencer. I wonder if that had still been preserved by the time LE finally found it? Actually, the victims' DNA would have been on all the weapons used, killer's clothing, etc. Awful to think about - just a bloodbath.

That's always been interesting to me - what information did they get that finally directed them to the location of the silencer part? I'm very glad someone came forward or figured out a new place to look. We don't know yet what happened but will find out.

Very interesting theory. If someone didn't come forward, with today's method
of keeping all retail sales records and store videos in detail, perhaps they were
already looking at the Wagners' purchases and hit a target and connected a receipt.

 

[Betty P]

Very interesting theory. If someone didn't come forward, with today's method
of keeping all retail sales records and store videos in detail, perhaps they were
already looking at the Wagners' purchases and hit a target and connected a receipt.

Agree, I think they found quite a bit in various receipts and store videos. I'd still like to know more about the well on the Peterson Rd farm property where the silencer parts were found. Was it a well they had already searched? Did the receipts, etc. give them a hint about the Maglite in the well that was a part of the silencer? Or did they get a tip about a different well to search that contained what they were looking for? IIRC, part of the silencer evidence was the body of a Maglite flashlight converted for use. Recall, whatever part it was they discovered, it had to be sent to an ATF lab for testing.

Info about this evidence appeared in Billy Wagner's court docs

Documents: ATF files report on item pulled from well, Wagner family arrested a week later

Records filed by prosecutors in the case of George "Billy" Wagner III indicate investigators on Oct. 31 searched the Peebles address of a farm the Wagner family sold before moving to Alaska and recovered an item from a well on the property.

The evidence listing says there were 21 photos from the search of the well, another seven photos of the recovered item and also an 8-page Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives report made on Nov. 7, 2018. Also listed from that search is "Information from Maglite."

The documents indicate investigators searched the property twice in 2017 in addition to the well search in 2018. In the first two searches, investigators filed 530 photos, a separate photo of a "burnt" VCR and an 11-page evidence inventory.

Was it the same well or a different one? If the same, it could be a sales receipt or something tipped them to go back and retrieve the Maglite. JMO, I can't imagine they left other items in the well after the first search. They would have taken everything, right? I'm still thinking the tip was about a different well, but I could be wrong. Did the tip come from someone who visited the farm or once lived there and knew of another old well on the property?

The appearance of the evidence in Billy's discovery docs indicates the silencer part was connected to a weapon they believe was used by him. How did they connect the silencer part to Billy? Maybe it was through a sales receipt or store video, as you suggest.

Still a lot of questions.

 

[Cool Cats]

Good post! Also, JMO, it's going to be difficult at any one time for her to claim her hearing is bad because if she can sit there and whisper to Robin and Robin whisper back to her, then Fred's hearing can't be too bad now can it? However, Fred always makes it look like when her lawyer(s) say something to her, that they have to say it directly into her ear. If she only knew, how ridiculous she really looks, sunglasses and all! LOL Also, I might add, in JMO, that if a person didn't want to look nervous, you wouldn't be moving from place to place in the court room and up and down and all around to here, there and everywhere. Putting your glasses off and on, etc etc. Why so fidgety? Why be nervous? What is there to be nervous about?....................

LOL....What is there to be nervous about? Well isn't that a loaded question!
I think she's trying to act cool like she's not bothered because she wants to seem not guilty and above the fray.

But as you just pointed out, thankx, she does fidget and move around, that suggests that she really is nervous about being convicted, worried about the Pike County Jurors and what they must think of her. And Owen is worried to.

He sat in on one of Billy's hearings and looked actually scared, nervous, and red in the face. I thought that he was really worried about both Fred and Billy getting convicted. In court he's so different, all confident bluster.

Well it's getting down to the home stretch. There's only so much that can be said when so many court documents are not being released by the media. That should change.

 

[Betty P]

LOL....What is there to be nervous about? Well isn't that a loaded question!
I think she's trying to act cool like she's not bothered because she wants to seem not guilty and above the fray.

But as you just pointed out, thankx, she does fidget and move around, that suggests that she really is nervous about being convicted, worried about the Pike County Jurors and what they must think of her. And Owen is worried to.

He sat in on one of Billy's hearings and looked actually scared, nervous, and red in the face. I thought that he was really worried about both Fred and Billy getting convicted. In court he's so different, all confident bluster.

Well it's getting down to the home stretch. There's only so much that can be said when so many court documents are not being released by the media. That should change.

Just a hunch, but maybe some of the evidence (besides BPVs) against Billy is linked to things he purchased through her various online shopping accounts, as Fresca suggested. Maybe Owen attends Billy's hearing to see if something comes up about his discovery info.

ETA: Yes, there's still a lot of discovery remaining to be done, according to FW's lawyer's motion. Not sure how much, he may be exaggerating in his recent motion. FW's upcoming trial may reveal a lot about the other 4 Wags.

 

[FrescaandSouthernComfort]

Agree, I think they found quite a bit in various receipts and store videos. I'd still like to know more about the well on the Peterson Rd farm property where the silencer parts were found. Was it a well they had already searched? Did the receipts, etc. give them a hint about the Maglite in the well that was a part of the silencer? Or did they get a tip about a different well to search that contained what they were looking for? IIRC, part of the silencer evidence was the body of a Maglite flashlight converted for use. Recall, whatever part it was they discovered, it had to be sent to an ATF lab for testing.

Info about this evidence appeared in Billy Wagner's court docs

Documents: ATF files report on item pulled from well, Wagner family arrested a week later





Was it the same well or a different one? If the same, it could be a sales receipt or something tipped them to go back and retrieve the Maglite. JMO, I can't imagine they left other items in the well after the first search. They would have taken everything, right? I'm still thinking the tip was about a different well, but I could be wrong. Did the tip come from someone who visited the farm or once lived there and knew of another old well on the property?

The appearance of the evidence in Billy's discovery docs indicates the silencer part was connected to a weapon they believe was used by him. How did they connect the silencer part to Billy? Maybe it was through a sales receipt or store video, as you suggest.

Still a lot of questions.

With all the traveling to different locations since the massacre, why would anyone
leave evidence at their homeplace. Pure insanity.

 

[Betty P]

With all the traveling to different locations since the massacre, why would anyone
leave evidence at their homeplace. Pure insanity.

Agree, why wouldn't they have just dumped this stuff off a remote bridge into the middle of one of the nearby big rivers. Even if found, the water would have destroyed some of the DNA and possibly fingerprint evidence. Sounds like they tried to burn some of it (recall the burned VCR) before tossing it in the farm well, but apparently it wasn't enough. Seems they were adept at the stalking, breaking in and killing, not so much in getting rid of evidence.

ETA: Ditto with dumping evidence while driving around various states, Canada and AK after they left Ohio. Maybe they were afraid of being stopped by police and having their trucks searched. They probably anticipated that Ohio LE /BCI would be following them.

ETA2: Back when I thought this was cartel-related, the assumption was the killers would have dumped all their evidence (guns, clothing, etc) immediately after the murders, before the bodies were discovered and suspects identified to track and follow. Wags didn't think to do this, apparently.

 

[NWLady]

Agree, why wouldn't they have just dumped this stuff off a remote bridge into the middle of one of the nearby big rivers. Even if found, the water would have destroyed some of the DNA and possibly fingerprint evidence. Sounds like they tried to burn some of it (recall the burned VCR) before tossing it in the farm well, but apparently it wasn't enough. Seems they were adept at the stalking, breaking in and killing, not so much in getting rid of evidence.

I think they were just that confident that they would never be charged. JMO

 

[Betty P]

I think they were just that confident that they would never be charged. JMO

Yep. They thought they had a good plan.

 

[FrescaandSouthernComfort]

Yep. They thought they had a good plan.

Very interesting that they have allotted 5 days for Freddy's trial, but 3 days plus one extra, if needed
for Rita.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I think they were just that confident that they would never be charged. JMO

Is it possible that they have killed before and got away with it and they just figure that they could get away with it again JMO

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Agree. I think Johnny B has a good point, though. Even if close range, there would still be victim DNA on the silencer. I wonder if that had still been preserved by the time LE finally found it? Actually, the victims' DNA would have been on all the weapons used, killer's clothing, etc. Awful to think about - just a bloodbath.

That's always been interesting to me - what information did they get that finally directed them to the location of the silencer part? I'm very glad someone came forward or figured out a new place to look. We don't know yet what happened but will find out.

I agree as well, Betty. I’m glad Johnny B brought that up. It was a good reminder. At the time the redacted articles were released, there were many articles and each was a little different. The Channel 9 article was very informative.

I’m curious as well to what information was received leading LE to the silencer. I’d also love to know if the well the silencer was found in was very well hidden. I actually almost wonder if the new owner discovered the well on the property and called BCI. Just some of my thoughts. The day we all can have answer is going to be very intellectually fulfilling!

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Agree, why wouldn't they have just dumped this stuff off a remote bridge into the middle of one of the nearby big rivers. Even if found, the water would have destroyed some of the DNA and possibly fingerprint evidence. Sounds like they tried to burn some of it (recall the burned VCR) before tossing it in the farm well, but apparently it wasn't enough. Seems they were adept at the stalking, breaking in and killing, not so much in getting rid of evidence.

ETA: Ditto with dumping evidence while driving around various states, Canada and AK after they left Ohio. Maybe they were afraid of being stopped by police and having their trucks searched. They probably anticipated that Ohio LE /BCI would be following them.

ETA2: Back when I thought this was cartel-related, the assumption was the killers would have dumped all their evidence (guns, clothing, etc) immediately after the murders, before the bodies were discovered and suspects identified to track and follow. Wags didn't think to do this, apparently.

Old wells are usually relatively close to the living structure, correct? I wish there was a way to see the old property surveys from Peterson Road. I personally have always thought it was no coincidence the new barn was erected just weeks after the murders. From photos, the barn appears to have a dirt floor. Is it possible the Wagners secured and then covered the well with fresh dirt and then built the barn over it? It seems far fetched. I just feel as if the well was hidden and someone came across it in October 2018.

Defiance Farms

 

[KentuckyMama]

Very interesting that they have allotted 5 days for Freddy's trial, but 3 days plus one extra, if needed
for Rita.

I thought the same thing. Just figured they allotted extra time for FW lawyers theatrics and tendency to drone on and on and on, rarely making a point.

 

[ColMustard]

Is it possible that they have killed before and got away with it and they just figure that they could get away with it again JMO

Without going into possibly censorable details, there are similarities in other area incidents.

 

[Betty P]

Old wells are usually relatively close to the living structure, correct? I wish there was a way to see the old property surveys from Peterson Road. I personally have always thought it was no coincidence the new barn was erected just weeks after the murders. From photos, the barn appears to have a dirt floor. Is it possible the Wagners secured and then covered the well with fresh dirt and then built the barn over it? It seems far fetched. I just feel as if the well was hidden and someone came across it in October 2018.

Defiance Farms

That's a very interesting theory. I wish someone were able to get photos when BCI went back to Peterson Rd farm for the Oct. 31, 2018 search. They were able to keep that search under wraps from the news media. Sometimes old maps and surveys have the locations of old wells, others not, especially if it's pretty old and hasn't been used in decades.

Without going into possibly censorable details, there are similarities in other area incidents.

We long discussed that, before the Wags were named as suspects. Do you think it's possible they killed someone before?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Is it possible that they have killed before and got away with it and they just figure that they could get away with it again JMO

Johnny I think so too. There was some murders that happened before the R's that had a lot of similar features. And one of them, I think the N one had a connection to Hannah as the daughter and her were friends on SM. I really do think the W's were into something illegal like drug trafficking or sales and took out anyone who crossed them. Of course this is all JMO and I can't prove any of it but I hope LE took a long look at all the unsolved murders in the area.

JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Old wells are usually relatively close to the living structure, correct? I wish there was a way to see the old property surveys from Peterson Road. I personally have always thought it was no coincidence the new barn was erected just weeks after the murders. From photos, the barn appears to have a dirt floor. Is it possible the Wagners secured and then covered the well with fresh dirt and then built the barn over it? It seems far fetched. I just feel as if the well was hidden and someone came across it in October 2018.

Defiance Farms

That is some great pictures of the 2 brothers, April the 30th 2016 both brothers hair is still black and George the 4th has more hair, do you think the black dye made his hair fall out?

 

[Betty P]

Johnny I think so too. There was some murders that happened before the R's that had a lot of similar features. And one of them, I think the N one had a connection to Hannah as the daughter and her were friends on SM. I really do think the W's were into something illegal like drug trafficking or sales and took out anyone who crossed them. Of course this is all JMO and I can't prove any of it but I hope LE took a long look at all the unsolved murders in the area.

JMO

Yes, there was something eerily similar about killers going into a mobile home in the middle of the night, shooting a mom and her teen daughter, then disappearing and leaving LE stumped. No one heard any shots, I wonder if they used a silencer?