OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#48

[RAISINISBACK]

My first thought, when the evidence was collected on October 31, 2018, was that the silencer was kept by the perp because he/she was either proud of creating it, or proud of the job done with it, so had saved it as a souvenir; moo.
IMO I had assumed it had been disposed of just prior to it's discovery, but of course, we don't know that at all, so JMO.

I have been thinking about that silencer and where it was disposed of.

A silencer is something that most of us have never seen in our lives. So if someone found one they would be very curious about what it was and what it was used for. They would probably show it around to friends and family or even LE. For those who have seen one they would know what it was and be curious about why it was thrown away and probably turn it over to LE.

Some have said why not just throw it into the Ohio river or a creek or pond ect. I live in a state that has just suffered extreme flooding. After the water receded people are finding things you would never dream of that have washed out of the lakes, rivers and creeks. One man found a musket that has to be from the 1700 or 1800's. They have found rings, necklaces and other jewelry that washed up on the swimming areas of lakes. They have found guns, bicycles and even a 1970 Chevrolet that was stolen back in the 1970's. Coffins have washed up from an old cemetery. So if there was flooding in Ohio (not unusual) that silencer could have washed up on shore and be turned over to LE.

I have wondered why not just throw it away in the woods. But the chance of some hunter or child playing in the woods or even someone out for a walk finding it would be pretty good.

Burying it would have disturbed the soil and if it had blood on it a dog might have dug it up.

Just throwing it in a trash can someone emptying the trash or even digging through the trash could have found it.

The well probably seemed to be the safest place to dispose of it so it would never be found.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

There were 2 young kids. Angie was home with the kids. The Wagner men wouldn't want Angie there. Would you want your mom there? I'm sure Angie was home to help with at least some type of alibi.
Can you imagine what would happen to the babysitter that night? Questioned to no end. They wouldn't want that to happen. Just My thoughts, I respect your opinion.

Cool Ctas I have to disagree about Angie. This is the age of feminists. Women fight on the front lines now. They are all over LE, carrying guns, arresting people. And they do it very well. They don't let their husbands, boyfriends, sons, ect tell them what they can and cannot do. I think Angie was right there along with the other three pulling the trigger. Angie was the only one of the four that had military experience. She hunted right along with the men. So she knew how to shoot and handle a gun. That is why she is charged with 1st degree murder along with the rest of them.

As for where the two little ones were? I think either Rita or Fred had them. That doesn't necessarily mean Rita or Fred knew what was going down that night. Kids are open to suggestion. For instance Angie could have said to them "Do you want to stay all night with Granny Rita (or Fred)" before she pulled up in the driveway and the kids would have ran into the house clamoring to stay the night with granny like it was their idea all along. Granny would have course said yes they can stay if they want to. Granny would have probably known later what went down and why the kids were with her that night but witness Fred's lies to cover for her son right now and you know why granny would never tell anyone the kids stayed the night with her.

Another more horrible scenario is that the two little ones were asleep in the car. These murders were done in the middle of the night, the wee hours of the morning. The vehicle they used was an SUV. They could have made them a bed in the very back and told them they were going on a road trip or even have carried them out there after they were asleep. Kids have been stolen from their beds late at night without ever waking up.

All JMO of course.

 

[Cool Cats]

Cool Ctas I have to disagree about Angie. This is the age of feminists. Women fight on the front lines now. They are all over LE, carrying guns, arresting people. And they do it very well. They don't let their husbands, boyfriends, sons, ect tell them what they can and cannot do. I think Angie was right there along with the other three pulling the trigger. Angie was the only one of the four that had military experience. She hunted right along with the men. So she knew how to shoot and handle a gun. That is why she is charged with 1st degree murder along with the rest of them.

As for where the two little ones were? I think either Rita or Fred had them. That doesn't necessarily mean Rita or Fred knew what was going down that night. Kids are open to suggestion. For instance Angie could have said to them "Do you want to stay all night with Granny Rita (or Fred)" before she pulled up in the driveway and the kids would have ran into the house clamoring to stay the night with granny like it was their idea all along. Granny would have course said yes they can stay if they want to. Granny would have probably known later what went down and why the kids were with her that night but witness Fred's lies to cover for her son right now and you know why granny would never tell anyone the kids stayed the night with her.

Another more horrible scenario is that the two little ones were asleep in the car. These murders were done in the middle of the night, the wee hours of the morning. The vehicle they used was an SUV. They could have made them a bed in the very back and told them they were going on a road trip or even have carried them out there after they were asleep. Kids have been stolen from their beds late at night without ever waking up.

All JMO of course.

I don't know. Law enforcement would be grilling the heck out of Rita if the kids stayed with her. Of course she would lie and say they were not with her, but would Angie want to chance that? That's just getting another person involved. To bring a babysitter into the equation is making it too complicated. Then they would have to explain to Rita why they want her to lie.

And the kids can't go to the murder scenes. To much risk they would say something. And Angie was only in the air force for a year and I don't think she went hunting.

Also, you don't need 4 people. Just one for lookout and 2 to go in. They wouldn't need a 4th person. We disagree but I get where your coming from Raisin. And I really don't think they even wanted Angie there. Unfortunately, we will never know.

All just my opinion. All opinions welcome. Different as they are.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Cool Ctas I have to disagree about Angie. This is the age of feminists. Women fight on the front lines now. They are all over LE, carrying guns, arresting people. And they do it very well. They don't let their husbands, boyfriends, sons, ect tell them what they can and cannot do. I think Angie was right there along with the other three pulling the trigger. Angie was the only one of the four that had military experience. She hunted right along with the men. So she knew how to shoot and handle a gun. That is why she is charged with 1st degree murder along with the rest of them.

As for where the two little ones were? I think either Rita or Fred had them. That doesn't necessarily mean Rita or Fred knew what was going down that night. Kids are open to suggestion. For instance Angie could have said to them "Do you want to stay all night with Granny Rita (or Fred)" before she pulled up in the driveway and the kids would have ran into the house clamoring to stay the night with granny like it was their idea all along. Granny would have course said yes they can stay if they want to. Granny would have probably known later what went down and why the kids were with her that night but witness Fred's lies to cover for her son right now and you know why granny would never tell anyone the kids stayed the night with her.

Another more horrible scenario is that the two little ones were asleep in the car. These murders were done in the middle of the night, the wee hours of the morning. The vehicle they used was an SUV. They could have made them a bed in the very back and told them they were going on a road trip or even have carried them out there after they were asleep. Kids have been stolen from their beds late at night without ever waking up.

All JMO of course.

I think you just hit upon something, the Wagners enjoyed hunting, they did these murders just like a hunting experience and they loved it look how they act in front of the judge, their sick people that deserve everything they get, JMO I really think they have hunted people before.

 

[Cool Cats]

Pike County Common Pleas Court
Randy D. Deering, Judge
Justin P. Brewster, Clerk of Courts

Fredericka Wagner......
06/12/2019 09:00am PRE-TRIAL
06/26/2019 01:30pm FINAL PRE-TRIAL
07/29/2019 08:30am JURY TRIAL

Rita Newcomb.......
06/14/2019 01:30pm FINAL PRE-TRIAL
7/08/2019 08:30am JURY TRIAL

 

[OhioBlues]

We had a camper and it did lock from ithe inside. We padlocked it on the outside when we left for the week.

 

[Betty P]

I have a different theory. I believe AW WAS there because Little BR’s interview with the child psychologist appears as part of AW’s discovery. My theory is BR identified a female who consoled him while the others did the dirty deed. If she was at FR’s trailer then it’s possible she could have been at KR’s camper. I believe the kids were home in bed with RN babysitting.

Good theory, I noticed that in AW's discovery, too. BR may not have known her, but could describe her appearance, maybe what she was wearing. What a horrific thought. What kind of mother/grandmother could be part of such a horrible act? The 4 W's are very sick people.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Good theory, I noticed that in AW's discovery, too. BR may not have known her, but could describe her appearance, maybe what she was wearing. What a horrific thought. What kind of mother/grandmother could be part of such a horrible act? The 4 W's are very sick people.

Betty, wouldn’t all four of the Wagners had to have been at each crime scene since all four of them are charged with four counts of burglary (one for each crime scene)?

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I have been thinking about that silencer and where it was disposed of.

A silencer is something that most of us have never seen in our lives. So if someone found one they would be very curious about what it was and what it was used for. They would probably show it around to friends and family or even LE. For those who have seen one they would know what it was and be curious about why it was thrown away and probably turn it over to LE.

Some have said why not just throw it into the Ohio river or a creek or pond ect. I live in a state that has just suffered extreme flooding. After the water receded people are finding things you would never dream of that have washed out of the lakes, rivers and creeks. One man found a musket that has to be from the 1700 or 1800's. They have found rings, necklaces and other jewelry that washed up on the swimming areas of lakes. They have found guns, bicycles and even a 1970 Chevrolet that was stolen back in the 1970's. Coffins have washed up from an old cemetery. So if there was flooding in Ohio (not unusual) that silencer could have washed up on shore and be turned over to LE.

I have wondered why not just throw it away in the woods. But the chance of some hunter or child playing in the woods or even someone out for a walk finding it would be pretty good.

Burying it would have disturbed the soil and if it had blood on it a dog might have dug it up.

Just throwing it in a trash can someone emptying the trash or even digging through the trash could have found it.

The well probably seemed to be the safest place to dispose of it so it would never be found.

JMO

Excellent points!

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Here’s a detailed description of burglary. In order for a person to be charged with burglary, three things must exist:
-the person must break into a home that’s not their own
-the crime must occur in the dark time, night hours
-the intent has to be a crime.

Based on those three specifics, I believe Billy, Angela, Jake, and George IV were ALL present at EACH crime scene because each defendant is charged with four counts of burglary. Why would the state take the time to charge a person with burglary if there wasn’t any physical evidence to place that person at the crime scene?

All JMO

Criminal Law: The Crime of Burglary

 

[Dudly]

Betty, wouldn’t all four of the Wagners had to have been at each crime scene since all four of them are charged with four counts of burglary (one for each crime scene)?

From what I read and posted about, the driver of a car can be charged with murder if his passenger killed someone during a robbery. Even if the driver did not know the passenger was going to commit a crime.

 

[Fletcher73]

I have a different theory. I believe AW WAS there because Little BR’s interview with the child psychologist appears as part of AW’s discovery. My theory is BR identified a female who consoled him while the others did the dirty deed. If she was at FR’s trailer then it’s possible she could have been at KR’s camper. I believe the kids were home in bed with RN babysitting.

Agree with you that AW participated: she didn't stay home babysitting. IMO - just speculating - moo, that little BW & SW were drugged to sleep through the night of 21/22 April 2016, so all W4 could leave them home alone; that all W4 were at each of the murder scenes (whether inside, or out standing watch) to act together (because they're so enmeshed).

My speculation comes from GWiv's ex-wife's new baby being 'lethargic' (drugged) after a visit with half-brother little BW. It may have been a test run by AW - to see if the drug would be efficacious, or create lasting harm. moo jmo

I don't think KR let anyone into his home, but IMO it was AW who shot him - she was former military and probably a capable shooter. Also, the single shot makes me think she wasn't emulating the "execution style" of two shots to the head - IMO - I don't think she was enamored of the "Boondock Saints" and trying to be like that. Just different MO's for the KR and CRsr/GR scenes. IMO the shooter(s) at FR/HHG and DR/HMR/CRjr scenes were the same person(s). Just me speculating MOO.

 

[Cool Cats]

Glitch

 

[MittenScarpetta]

From what I read and posted about, the driver of a car can be charged with murder if his passenger killed someone during a robbery. Even if the driver did not know the passenger was going to commit a crime.

Murder, yes. Guilty by association. But is it the same for burglary? Burglary is specific to say a person must illegally enter a property to be charged.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Cool Cats-

I believe that’s where intent comes in though. If there’s no intent on committing a crime and a crime is not committed upon entering a building, there’s no burglary

Every where I’ve looked, the laws state the person charged with burglary must illegally enter the property. Is driving onto the property enough? Probably. But from what I’m seeing, the accused has to physically be present to be charged. If not present but involved with providing information and/or a conspiracy, that’s where other charges come in.

I very well may be misinterpreting it. Are there any legal experts or lawyers watching this thread that could explain? TIA

 

[Cool Cats]

Here’s a detailed description of burglary. In order for a person to be charged with burglary, three things must exist:
-the person must break into a home that’s not their own
-the crime must occur in the dark time, night hours
-the intent has to be a crime.

Based on those three specifics, I believe Billy, Angela, Jake, and George IV were ALL present at EACH crime scene because each defendant is charged with four counts of burglary. Why would the state take the time to charge a person with burglary if there wasn’t any physical evidence to place that person at the crime scene?

All JMO

Criminal Law: The Crime of Burglary

According to your link, many States do not require a burglary to be at night, nor require you to break in, you can just walk in. In CA you do not have to go into a building to be charged with burglary. You could simply be the set up guy.

You know your neighbor is going out of town, you know where her valuables are kept, you deliberately relay the information to someone and they go in, burglarize the home, get busted, then give you up. You will get charged for being in on the Burglary and for the Conspiracy to commit Burglary.

If more than one person commits a crime that was planned ahead, LE will charge you for the crime itself and for the Conspiracy, which is planning a crime with another person.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Dana was the only one that had the gun put under her chin and shot, the killers made sure she was awake and looking at them when they killed her JMO

What if Dana wasn’t awake but was laying in bed on her back, asleep when approached? Think of a person laying on their back and how their head/chin are positioned. Could she have been shot under the chin while laying in bed asleep?

It depends on which way you look at it but I think both scenarios are possible.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I don't know. Law enforcement would be grilling the heck out of Rita if the kids stayed with her. Of course she would lie and say they were not with her, but would Angie want to chance that? That's just getting another person involved. To bring a babysitter into the equation is making it too complicated. Then they would have to explain to Rita why they want her to lie.

And the kids can't go to the murder scenes. To much risk they would say something. And Angie was only in the air force for a year and I don't think she went hunting.

Also, you don't need 4 people. Just one for lookout and 2 to go in. They wouldn't need a 4th person. We disagree but I get where your coming from Raisin. And I really don't think they even wanted Angie there. Unfortunately, we will never know.

All just my opinion. All opinions welcome. Different as they are.

CC people take their kids to rob a store at gun point and to break into houses. I saw one video caught of a man taking his 2 year old child to break into a store late at night. Poor baby was just standing there watching her father pry open a back door.

If the kids were asleep in the back of the SUV chances are they never woke up. Kids sleep very well in cars. I remember putting my son in a car to get him to go to sleep at night. He would be cranky and not want to sleep and we would put him in the car and drive around and he would be asleep in minutes. Hubby would then carry him in and put him in his bed without him ever waking up. I think all parents have been there with a small child who doesn't want to go to sleep. When he was a baby we would sit him on top of the washing machine in a car seat. The spin cycle would have him sleeping in minutes.

As far as having to explain to Rita or Fred after I don't think any explanation was needed. Don't forget Rita forged custody papers and her and Fred are both charged with lying to a GJ right now.

We will know when Angie goes to trial whether she was there or not. My bet is she was, front and center, making sure they all did what she said.

JMO

 

[MittenScarpetta]

According to your link, many States do not require a burglary to be at night, nor require you to break in, you can just walk in. In CA you do not have to go into a building to be charged with burglary. You could simply be the set up guy.

You know your neighbor is going out of town, you know where her valuables are kept, you deliberately relay the information to someone and they go in, burglarize the home, get busted, then give you up. You will get charged for being in on the Burglary and for the Conspiracy to commit Burglary.

If more than one person commits a crime that was planned ahead, LE will charge you for the crime itself and for the Conspiracy, which is planning a crime with another person.

Ohio Law on Aggravated Burglary

Ohio Aggravated Burglary

Aggravated burglary is a more serious burglary offense. If you have been charged with aggravated burglary, you must have trespassed – by force, stealth, or deception – in an occupied structure where someone is present, with the intent to commit a criminal offense, and you inflict, or attempt or threaten to inflict physical harm to that person or have a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance on or about you or under your control. Aggravated burglary is a first-degree felony which is punishable by from 3 to 11 years in in prison and a fine not to exceed $20,000. Ohio Burglary Laws and Criminal Defense Options | Jeff Hastings | Criminal Civil Defense Law Attorney Cleveland Ohio

Lawriter - ORC - 2911.12 Burglary.
Lawriter - ORC - 2911.11 Aggravated burglary.

 

[Dudly]

What if Dana wasn’t awake but was laying in bed on her back, asleep when approached? Think of a person laying on their back and how their head/chin are positioned. Could she have been shot under the chin while laying in bed asleep?

It depends on which way you look at it but I think both scenarios are possible.

I have thought Dana was in bed but was awake or awakened. I believe the shooter wanted her to see who they were. The gun under the chin was for the shooter to let her know what was going to happen, maybe make a comment, but mainly to let her know whom was shooting her.
My opinion only of course.