OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#49

[Cool Cats]

Is the witness one of the defendants?

Not legally possible unless one of the 4 defendants actually turns State 's evidence, accepts a plea deal, and then testifies against the other defendants. In plain English: becomes a rat and testifies for the Prosecution.

A few reasons someone might be excused from testifying:

• The testimony includes self incriminating evidence: The constitution gives you the right to avoid giving self-incriminating evidence under the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution. A witness can, at any time, refuse to answer a question by claiming protection under the Fifth Amendment.
• The person testifying is the defendant in a criminal case: This is an extension of the protection under the Fifth Amendment. Criminal defendants can never be forced to testify.
• The witness is married to someone involved in the case: Communication between two spouses is considered privileged by courts. This means that in most cases, you can't be forced to testify against your spouse in court.

 

[Dudly]

Well, apparently the defendants are really worried about what this witness told LE and prosecution. That's good.

IANAL, but this seems like its meant to apply when the witness is still a juvenile and the crime was committed when he was a juvenile. If this witness is no longer a juvenile and the crimes he witnessed happened when he was an adult, this wouldn't apply.

Maybe I read this wrong, but I assumed the defense wants to reveal something about the witness and a crime he committed when he was a juvenile, which really wouldn't be relevant to this case. JMO, the judge isn't going to rule in their favor on this one.

I was thinking Defense wants to use the juvenile records to give reason that the witness would not be a reliable witness in this case. Just an opinion...

 

[Loomis124]

Could it be Jake's wife? She claimed on SM that she was in hiding and left Ohio after her life being threatened last July.

She will probably be a witness, but I don't think she's the one being discussed. JMO. And then, it could be her!

 

[Loomis124]

Perhaps the witness is in jail? I know one of them was, I saw the mug shot, but not sure of current status.

When is a Witness Unavailable?
State and federal laws guide judges as they decide whether a witness is likely to be unavailable to testify at trial. The issues that judges consider include:

• the witness’s health (is the witness sick or infirm?)
• the witness’s age (is the witness 65 years of age or older?)
• the witness’s residency (is the witness about to leave the state or country?)
• the witness’s safety (has the witness’s life or well-being been threatened?), and
• the witness’s custody status (is the witness about to be imprisoned, released from custody or deported?)

What Are Criminal Depositions? When Are Depositions Allowed? - Lawyers.com
In criminal cases, depositions are normally taken to preserve testimony from a witness.
A deposition isn't meant as a discovery device in a criminal case.

There was never a mugshot posted of the person I'm thinking of. A few were posted but all were proven wrong. JMO

 

[Loomis124]

Thank you CC that is good information. I wonder why AW wants their juvenile records?

I can't remember, but was there anything at all that tied the two motions together to imply they were about one specific witness? JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Yes, some of these trials could be lengthy, depending on the defense team and defendant. You can tell by looking at the number of motions filed for each defendant, it varies quite a bit. Yet they're all charged the same and were (likely) equally involved in the planning, stalking and killing. How much different can their defense strategies be? Depends on the lawyers. JMO

BBM

Angela 49 Motions
Billy 10 Motions
GW4 10 Motions
Jake 11 Motions

You would think that with GW4's trial in less than 2 months, he would have the most Motions.
By number, the guy's Motions even-out, but I plan to see how different/similar the Motions are between them.
Yes, there was a bigger discrepancy between them some months ago in regards to sheer number.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Could it be Jake's wife? She claimed on SM that she was in hiding and left Ohio after her life being threatened last July.

Remember the podcast said that the person that hasn’t been saw after the murders lived on Union Hill Road

 

[Loomis124]

Today's Journal entry in AWs court record:

7/18 Bill of Particulars copy to Prosecution

Does this make sense?

 

[Johnny B Bad]

BBM

Angela 49 Motions
Billy 10 Motions
GW4 10 Motions
Jake 11 Motions

You would think that with GW4's trial in less than 2 months, he would have the most Motions.
By number, the guy's Motions even-out, but I plan to see how different/similar the Motions are between them.
Yes, there was a bigger discrepancy between them some months ago in regards to sheer number.

Hey CC do you remember at GW4th first pre-trial that he made his attorney get up in front of the judge and ask for bail, even though the attorneys where probably advising him that there was know way the court would grant it, but George 4th is a spoiled and overbearing human being and now IMO he is the one that has pushed for a speedy trial, thinking he is going to win this case, He’s Not Very Bright

 

[Loomis124]

There was never a mugshot posted of the person I'm thinking of. A few were posted but all were proven wrong. JMO

Caylee, can you please share an opinion on this? I respect your knowledge. Thanks.

 

[Loomis124]

Is the witness one of the defendants?

JMO, but No.

 

[Loomis124]

Well, well, well. VERY INTERESTING. Same journal entry appears on AW, GW3, and GW4 court record today....but not on Jake's.

7/18/19 Bill of Particulars to Prosecutors

What???? I thought this document was due to the Defense from the Prosecution.?? 3 entries in one day. Please share your thoughts. Better yet, is anyone able to get a copy of this Bill of Particulars and post? TY

 

[Loomis124]

I have the answer to my own question. IMO, it is just a poorly written journal entry in all 3 cases. It meant that the Defense filed that a copy of their original request for a Bill of Particulars was sent to Prosecutors today. The reason Jake didnt have an entry is because he received his Bill of Particulars already. JMO

 

[Betty P]

Well, well, well. VERY INTERESTING. Same journal entry appears on AW, GW3, and GW4 court record today....but not on Jake's.

7/18/19 Bill of Particulars to Prosecutors

What???? I thought this document was due to the Defense from the Prosecution.?? 3 entries in one day. Please share your thoughts. Better yet, is anyone able to get a copy of this Bill of Particulars and post? TY

Are you asking about the Bill of Particulars? If so, one was already given for JW, several months back. You can find it at one of those ScribD links. Check in the Media & Timelines thread.

For some reason, the prosecution hadn't submitted them to the defense teams of the other W4. JW's Bill of Particulars didn't have a lot of new information, IIRC.

 

[Cool Cats]

Hey CC do you remember at GW4th first pre-trial that he made his attorney get up in front of the judge and ask for bail, even though the attorneys where probably advising him that there was know way the court would grant it, but George 4th is a spoiled and overbearing human being and now IMO he is the one that has pushed for a speedy trial, thinking he is going to win this case, He’s Not Very Bright

Hey Johnny! I remember posting about that. It was very noticeable that he was the only one of the 4 asking for bail. I agree he is spoiled/overbearing, likely he was "spoon fed" by parents who hovered, praised and protected him from anything that made him uncomfortable, gifted with guns, trucks, 4 wheelers, a house likely from gramma, easy jobs, his own semi, hunting and fishing equipment, game systems and internet service, laundry, grocery shopping and cooking done by mom.

Then custody of his son, demanding psychological evaluations from his ex, controlling her access to their son, having complete control over the children. Problem solving is non existent, just "dispose" of your problems.

When Fred asked for low bail Canepa countered by revealing that Fred was present when the revenge and escape conversations took place.

When GW4's attorney asked for bail Canepa countered that GW4 not only participated in multiple conversations about revenge and escape, she said he was the most vocal.
He gave her his stare.

Yes I'm sure he insisted his attorney ask for bail. He seems to not be doing well in jail. "I want bail, move me back to solitary, I'm not waiting for trial any longer, dreaming of escape and revenge," nervous hand scratching, eyes darting all over etc. ..

Maybe I'm reading too much into it but I get the impression he is doing worse than the others. However, Angie looked worse than before with messy dirty hair and a bruise on her neck. Jake always seems arrogant but it's false bravado.

.....My 2 Cents.....

 

[Merrygirl]

Even still, the fact that the person is deceased makes him or her unavailable. And why would AW be fighting against this? JMO

Maybe she knows this person could give damaging testimony against her and she’s hoping by this person possibly being unable to appear (aka “deceased”) to have the sworn affidavit thrown out since the defense did not have the opportunity to cross-examine. Jmo

 

[Merrygirl]

What if the "unavailable person" was GW2? He was alive in April 2016, as a "bedfast man" at FWF, and may have heard or seen something - and provided testimony or an affidavit - after all, LE did remove something from a bedfast man, according to the LM interview in MSM.

What if the "unavailable person" is the toddler BR - the medical/forensic interview video done at the CAC is listed in AW's Discovery.

What if the "unavailable person" is SW or her cousin BW? Either child may have seen something, then if the children were with AW during the LE interviews, mentioned it. As far as we know, her grandchildren's whereabouts are unknown to AW. The state or their caregivers may not want them to be interviewed by AW's counsel.

Just speculating here, based on the ideas being asked tonight about who it might be - all my speculating above is jmo/moo.

BBM—IIRC, GW2 died in 2017 and the GJ convened in 2018. I seriously doubt it was him. Jmo

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Hey Johnny! I remember posting about that. It was very noticeable that he was the only one of the 4 asking for bail. I agree he is spoiled/overbearing, likely he was "spoon fed" by parents who hovered, praised and protected him from anything that made him uncomfortable, gifted with guns, trucks, 4 wheelers, a house likely from gramma, easy jobs, his own semi, hunting and fishing equipment, game systems and internet service, laundry, grocery shopping and cooking done by mom.

Then custody of his son, demanding psychological evaluations from his ex, controlling her access to their son, having complete control over the children. Problem solving is non existent, just "dispose" of your problems.

When Fred asked for low bail Canepa countered by revealing that Fred was present when the revenge and escape conversations took place.

When GW4's attorney asked for bail Canepa countered that GW4 not only participated in multiple conversations about revenge and escape, she said he was the most vocal.
He gave her his stare.

Yes I'm sure he insisted his attorney ask for bail. He seems to not be doing well in jail. "I want bail, move me back to solitary, I'm not waiting for trial any longer, dreaming of escape and revenge," nervous hand scratching, eyes darting all over etc. ..

Maybe I'm reading too much into it but I get the impression he is doing worse than the others. However, Angie looked worse than before with messy dirty hair and a bruise on her neck. Jake always seems arrogant but it's false bravado.

.....My 2 Cents.....

I have always said if anyone flips it will be George. He had the least invested in all this and the most to lose. I think his asking for bail was because he was desperate to get out and get his son before his ex could get custody of BW. Everything points to that. His being the only one to ask for bail to get out, asking for a mental eval, ect. His going to trial first and so soon also points to his desperation to get out and get his son back. I think that whatever happened with his ex that ended up with him having custody in the first place is worrying him to death right now, in view of the fact that she probably has the child. Think about it. He was in jail yet he asks for a mental eval on his ex before they hand over BW to her. To me that says he would rather see the child in foster care with complete strangers than with his ex. I think that is why he looks so bad now and why he will flip on all the others.

Think about this, who wouldn't throw their mom, dad, brother, grandma and anyone else under the bus for their own child?

JMO

 

[Yellowbeak]

I have always said if anyone flips it will be George. He had the least invested in all this and the most to lose. I think his asking for bail was because he was desperate to get out and get his son before his ex could get custody of BW. Everything points to that. His being the only one to ask for bail to get out, asking for a mental eval, ect. His going to trial first and so soon also points to his desperation to get out and get his son back. I think that whatever happened with his ex that ended up with him having custody in the first place is worrying him to death right now, in view of the fact that she probably has the child. Think about it. He was in jail yet he asks for a mental eval on his ex before they hand over BW to her. To me that says he would rather see the child in foster care with complete strangers than with his ex. I think that is why he looks so bad now and why he will flip on all the others.

Think about this, who wouldn't throw their mom, dad, brother, grandma and anyone else under the bus for their own child?

JMO

I see what you’re saying but even if he did flip and make a plea deal that would mean he would be admitting that they were indeed responsible . His ex would surely win custody anyway. He would not be seeing his child. That happens now with substance abuse etc. I doubt Whatever he has on her is worse than what they have on him. In fact, if I was his ex I’d want to go into hiding if he ever got out. JMO I’m not sure how plea deals work exactly but with something this horrendous wouldn’t he still get life without the death penalty or could he be released after so many years?

 

[Betty P]

I have always said if anyone flips it will be George. He had the least invested in all this and the most to lose. I think his asking for bail was because he was desperate to get out and get his son before his ex could get custody of BW. Everything points to that. His being the only one to ask for bail to get out, asking for a mental eval, ect. His going to trial first and so soon also points to his desperation to get out and get his son back. I think that whatever happened with his ex that ended up with him having custody in the first place is worrying him to death right now, in view of the fact that she probably has the child. Think about it. He was in jail yet he asks for a mental eval on his ex before they hand over BW to her. To me that says he would rather see the child in foster care with complete strangers than with his ex. I think that is why he looks so bad now and why he will flip on all the others.

Think about this, who wouldn't throw their mom, dad, brother, grandma and anyone else under the bus for their own child?

JMO

He also seems somewhat delusional about his prospects for ever being able to care for the child himself, or to have any say about their upbringing. JMO, the cavalier attitude shown in asking for bail and trying to dictate others while incarcerated sounds like a real lack of remorse. So what, I killed some people, I'm still in charge of things.