OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#49

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  • #1,341
He also seems somewhat delusional about his prospects for ever being able to care for the child himself, or to have any say about their upbringing. JMO, the cavalier attitude shown in asking for bail and trying to dictate others while incarcerated sounds like a real lack of remorse. So what, I killed some people, I'm still in charge of things.

Exactly. I think it is arrogance, a "once mine always mine" mentality. It does not matter to him if his ex-wife is or isn't a good parent he is not going to let her win and have primary control of "his" child. I agree this is not a man who feels remorse for the death of 8 people or how his family's lives have turned upside down, he is furious they are being held accountable.

I don't think George will flip. I don't think any of them will. These people planned and executed an entire family together they will go down together.
 
  • #1,342
I was thinking Defense wants to use the juvenile records to give reason that the witness would not be a reliable witness in this case. Just an opinion...

That's how I've read it from the start, too, Duddly. (Since the first motion in this case concerning juvenile records.)
 
  • #1,343
I have always said if anyone flips it will be George. He had the least invested in all this and the most to lose. I think his asking for bail was because he was desperate to get out and get his son before his ex could get custody of BW. Everything points to that. His being the only one to ask for bail to get out, asking for a mental eval, ect. His going to trial first and so soon also points to his desperation to get out and get his son back. I think that whatever happened with his ex that ended up with him having custody in the first place is worrying him to death right now, in view of the fact that she probably has the child. Think about it. He was in jail yet he asks for a mental eval on his ex before they hand over BW to her. To me that says he would rather see the child in foster care with complete strangers than with his ex. I think that is why he looks so bad now and why he will flip on all the others.

Think about this, who wouldn't throw their mom, dad, brother, grandma and anyone else under the bus for their own child?

JMO

I agree with you that he's desperate to be out of jail. But I'm not convinced his ex did a thing. I don't think George does anything, including for his child, unless it first benefits him. MOO
 
  • #1,344
I agree with you that he's desperate to be out of jail. But I'm not convinced his ex did a thing. I don't think George does anything, including for his child, unless it first benefits him. MOO

I agree, I think it has more to do with control than being a father. IMO if they offered to put George up in protective custody I wouldn't exactly be shocked, I don't necessarily believe he will but who knows.
 
  • #1,345
I have always said if anyone flips it will be George. He had the least invested in all this and the most to lose. I think his asking for bail was because he was desperate to get out and get his son before his ex could get custody of BW. Everything points to that. His being the only one to ask for bail to get out, asking for a mental eval, ect. His going to trial first and so soon also points to his desperation to get out and get his son back. I think that whatever happened with his ex that ended up with him having custody in the first place is worrying him to death right now, in view of the fact that she probably has the child. Think about it. He was in jail yet he asks for a mental eval on his ex before they hand over BW to her. To me that says he would rather see the child in foster care with complete strangers than with his ex. I think that is why he looks so bad now and why he will flip on all the others.

Think about this, who wouldn't throw their mom, dad, brother, grandma and anyone else under the bus for their own child?

JMO

Very insightful thankx. You cleared something up for me. I wasn't sure if GW4 was in jail when he asked for the psych exam, or if it was before jail.
He must have been desperate to keep his ex away from their son if he's sitting in jail on 8 aggravated murder charges along with 14 other felony counts, yet is asking for someone else to be psychologically evaluated. :confused: Ironic much? o_O

I agree it makes sense that because he asked for a psych exam after being remanded to jail, he was indeed desperate to keep his ex from gaining custody.

I wonder what ever happened with the psych exam? And I remember GW4's ex withdrew her amended visitation request, which is what prompted the psych request.

Your right, with him in jail it cleared the way for her to go after full custody. I wonder what happened with that?
 
  • #1,346
Very insightful thankx. You cleared something up for me. I wasn't sure if GW4 was in jail when he asked for the psych exam, or if it was before jail.
He must have been desperate to keep his ex away from their son if he's sitting in jail on 8 aggravated murder charges along with 14 other felony counts, yet is asking for someone else to be psychologically evaluated. :confused: Ironic much? o_O

I agree it makes sense that because he asked for a psych exam after being remanded to jail, he was indeed desperate to keep his ex from gaining custody.

I wonder what ever happened with the psych exam? And I remember GW4's ex withdrew her amended visitation request, which is what prompted the psych request.

Your right, with him in jail it cleared the way for her to go after full custody. I wonder what happened with that?
IDK but it makes me wonder why he was so determined that she not get custody. I don't think their divorce or custody battle was contentious at all. Didn't seem to be from the record. They agreed on everything including the fact that he got full custody. There was also that questionable incident involving her second child which cannot be discussed on here. But IMO he had something on her to make her so agreeable. Could be that her second husband/BF did not want to raise another man's child. Could have been something to do with her mental health since he asked for a mental eval. Could have been drugs. Lots of "could have been's" and we have no way of knowing since the court records on the divorce didn't say. But whatever the reason, he's worried to death about it now. It shows in his face every time he is in court.

I still think he will flip and throw all the rest of them under the bus.

JMO
 
  • #1,347
I see what you’re saying but even if he did flip and make a plea deal that would mean he would be admitting that they were indeed responsible . His ex would surely win custody anyway. He would not be seeing his child. That happens now with substance abuse etc. I doubt Whatever he has on her is worse than what they have on him. In fact, if I was his ex I’d want to go into hiding if he ever got out. JMO I’m not sure how plea deals work exactly but with something this horrendous wouldn’t he still get life without the death penalty or could he be released after so many years?
Unless he flips on the others and tells them he stayed home with the kids or was only the driver, and not a trigger man and turns state's witness against all the others. That could get him out with time served.

JMO
 
  • #1,348
Exactly. I think it is arrogance, a "once mine always mine" mentality. It does not matter to him if his ex-wife is or isn't a good parent he is not going to let her win and have primary control of "his" child. I agree this is not a man who feels remorse for the death of 8 people or how his family's lives have turned upside down, he is furious they are being held accountable.

I don't think George will flip. I don't think any of them will. These people planned and executed an entire family together they will go down together.

These people planned and executed an entire family together they will go down together.
BBM

This is a very narcissistic family, all of them. They all think they are entitled and they are selfish to the core and they all look out for number one. So yeah I think he would throw the rest of his family under the bus since getting back to his child seems at this time to be his priority. He would put his needs above those of his mother, father and brother.



JMo
 
  • #1,349
They were texting with someone on Hanna and Dana's phones. No way to know if it was in fact Hanna and Dana since when you send a text you have no way of knowing who has that phone in their hand. Example in point: son sent hubby a text "Is mom home I want to show her something". Hubby's phone was beside me when it buzzed so I texted back "Yes mom is home, bring it over". You get the picture.

Same way with FB. No way to know who is sitting behind that computer typing in messages in reply to yours. Case in point: me typing this to you.

Plus LE stated they took some of the victims cell phones.

JMO

The last text that HMR sent was at 12:40, the last text messages/socialmedia posts from DR were at 12:54 & 12:58 according to Mr. Goldschmidt's, of the Cinci Enquirer's, timeline.

Timeline of the Pike County killings | Killings | Murder
 
  • #1,350
Angela's Motion #32
NOTE: USE THIS MOTION IF THE WITNESS IS ALIVE, BUT STATE SAYS NOT AVAILABLE.
MODIFY THIS MOTION IF THE WITNESS IS DEAD, IN WHICH CASE THE SOLE FOCUS FALLS ON WHETHER DEFENDANT HAD AN EFFECTIVE OPPORTUNITY TO CROSS-EXAMINE THE WITNESS AT THE EARLIER PROCEEDING.

DEFENDANTS MOTION IN LIMINE REGARDING THE INADMISSIBILITY OF PRIOR TESTIMONY FROM A WITNESS FOR THE PROSECUTION

Defendant moves this Court to prohibit the State from admitting the prior testimony of an allegedly unavailable witness.

MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT

It is defense counsels understanding that the prosecution plans to rely on the prior testimony of a witness because the State contends that witness is unavailable, and that the witness was effectively subjected to cross examination at an earlier proceedings.


Defendant contends that this evidence is inadmissible because (1) it has not been proven that the witness is unavailable;
and (2) Defendant did not have an opportunity to conduct an effective cross examination of that witnesses in circumstances equal to those that would apply were the witness to appear in person during trial.

The Sixth Amendment;

This amendment guarantees basic rights for defendants in all criminal prosecutions, including “the right to a speedy and public trial,” the right to be tried “by an impartial jury,” the right “to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation,” the right to be confronted with adversary witnesses, and the right “to have the Assistance of Counsel” in your defense.

Sixth Amendment: Jury Trials In Criminal Cases - National Constitution Center
 
  • #1,351
These people planned and executed an entire family together they will go down together.
BBM

This is a very narcissistic family, all of them. They all think they are entitled and they are selfish to the core and they all look out for number one. So yeah I think he would throw the rest of his family under the bus since getting back to his child seems at this time to be his priority. He would put his needs above those of his mother, father and brother.



JMo
BBM—jmo but this description of narcissistic personality disorder could sure be applied here. Narcissistic personality disorder - Symptoms and causes
 
  • #1,352
IDK but it makes me wonder why he was so determined that she not get custody. I don't think their divorce or custody battle was contentious at all. Didn't seem to be from the record. They agreed on everything including the fact that he got full custody. There was also that questionable incident involving her second child which cannot be discussed on here. But IMO he had something on her to make her so agreeable. Could be that her second husband/BF did not want to raise another man's child. Could have been something to do with her mental health since he asked for a mental eval. Could have been drugs. Lots of "could have been's" and we have no way of knowing since the court records on the divorce didn't say. But whatever the reason, he's worried to death about it now. It shows in his face every time he is in court.

I still think he will flip and throw all the rest of them under the bus.

JMO
If he's found guilty---to avoid the DP---he could flip. That's the only reason I can see for him going against his family. It might depend on if he was talked into it and convinced he wouldn't get artested, wouldn't be separated from his son. Maybe getting caught is like a betrayal of sorts. "You'all said there's no evidence to find us guilty of anything."
 
  • #1,353
These people planned and executed an entire family together they will go down together.
BBM

This is a very narcissistic family, all of them. They all think they are entitled and they are selfish to the core and they all look out for number one. So yeah I think he would throw the rest of his family under the bus since getting back to his child seems at this time to be his priority. He would put his needs above those of his mother, father and brother.



JMo

Especially since none of the problems or murders had anything to do with him or his son. We don't know if he was involved with the murders, if he was, was it voluntary, or was he browbeat into it. It is so strange knowing so little about what went on...
 
  • #1,354

Thankx. Also, both Federal and State Constitutions are mentioned and followed in Motions.

DEFENDANTS MOTION FOR DISCLOSURE OF THE
JUVENILE RECORDS OF PLAINTIFFS WITNESSES

Failure to provide this information to Defendant will deprive him of his rights under the State and Federal U.S. Constitution Amendments. V, VI, VIII, and XIV; Ohio Constitution Article I; 1, 2, 5, 10, and 16.

Some interesting things in the
"Civilian Clothes" Motion:

DEFENDANTS MOTION TO PERMIT ACCUSED TO APPEAR
IN CIVILIAN CLOTHING AND WITHOUT RESTRAINTS
AT ALL PROCEEDINGS


LOOKS DANGEROUS

This Court must guard against heightened security precautions that make the accused look like a dangerous individual. If Defendant is convicted, then during the mitigation phase excessive security and/or restraints create the risk that jurors will consider future dangerousness when adjudicating the sentence.
Moreover, the prospective jurors will likely infer that Defendant is heavily guarded because he is dangerous.

STUN BELT ARGUMENT

Defendant specifically asserts that there is no justification for restraining him by use of a stun belt,
the prospective jurors will likely infer that Defendant is restrained because he is dangerous.

The Ohio Supreme Court has reversed cases where a stun belt has not been amply justified on the record.
Like chains and shackles, a stun belt remains visible to the public and to jurors, and it restrains the defendant in part with psychological fear and anxiety that manifests itself in a defendant's demeanor in ways against the constitutional rights at issue (in the case of Deck.)

OTHER REASONS AGAINST RESTRAINTS

....Indeed, they can interfere with a defendant's ability to communicate with his lawyer
and participate in his own defense, say by freely choosing whether to take the witness stand on his own behalf.

Finally, compelling the accused to stand trial in prison garb operates usually against those who cannot post bail before trial.
 
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  • #1,355
This is JMO but if I had to pick an 'A' Team from the W4, it would be GW3 and JW only. The other two look really soft. I would look at the most physically fit, just in case things went off side, and running through the woods was a requirement. I think Johnny B.B. stated this same thing earlier in this thread. GW4, IMO was not a key player in these murders.
 
  • #1,356
I agree, I think it has more to do with control than being a father. IMO if they offered to put George up in protective custody I wouldn't exactly be shocked, I don't necessarily believe he will but who knows.

I think if George were offered Witsec, he'd sing like a bird!!!
 
  • #1,357
I think if George were offered Witsec, he'd sing like a bird!!!

I think it would likely take that for any of them to roll, bc the thought of being inside, even with a reduced sentence, would be too intolerable. That individual would be stuck with a rap sheet for life, too.
 
  • #1,358
I see what you’re saying but even if he did flip and make a plea deal that would mean he would be admitting that they were indeed responsible . His ex would surely win custody anyway. He would not be seeing his child. That happens now with substance abuse etc. I doubt Whatever he has on her is worse than what they have on him. In fact, if I was his ex I’d want to go into hiding if he ever got out. JMO I’m not sure how plea deals work exactly but with something this horrendous wouldn’t he still get life without the death penalty or could he be released after so many years?

BBM


Plea or no plea, no, he will never be released. Think:

Leslie Van Houten
 
  • #1,359
This is JMO but if I had to pick an 'A' Team from the W4, it would be GW3 and JW only. The other two look really soft. I would look at the most physically fit, just in case things went off side, and running through the woods was a requirement. I think Johnny B.B. stated this same thing earlier in this thread. GW4, IMO was not a key player in these murders.
BBM
The 8 counts of aggravated murder and the other 14 felony counts look pretty solid to me, looks like a 25% And 25% And 25% And 25% effort from all 4 put together. He was the key player in the escape and revenge talks, he was the most vocal and was involved in multiple conversations.
 
  • #1,360
Very insightful thankx. You cleared something up for me. I wasn't sure if GW4 was in jail when he asked for the psych exam, or if it was before jail.
He must have been desperate to keep his ex away from their son if he's sitting in jail on 8 aggravated murder charges along with 14 other felony counts, yet is asking for someone else to be psychologically evaluated. :confused: Ironic much? o_O

I agree it makes sense that because he asked for a psych exam after being remanded to jail, he was indeed desperate to keep his ex from gaining custody.

I wonder what ever happened with the psych exam? And I remember GW4's ex withdrew her amended visitation request, which is what prompted the psych request.

Your right, with him in jail it cleared the way for her to go after full custody. I wonder what happened with that?

EXTREMELY ironic! Ummmm, yeah, I know in jail on 8 aggravated murder counts and on wire tap being SUPER vocal about taking out revenge on state LE and politicians, BUT you really, really need to evaluate my ex with a psych exam. :eek::rolleyes:o_O:mad:
 
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