OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #19

[rsd1200]

Just some autopsy info:

Table 2 for Ohio.

https://www.cga.ct.gov/2013/rpt/2013-R-0364.htm

Interesting Info.
http://www.forensicmag.com/article/2015/09/7-common-mistakes-regarding-autopsy-reports

 

[Soulmagent]

I think the best thing for you to do is read the prior threads! There are many newspaper articles and many videos, and linking just a few cannot give you a good overview of this case. There are eight victims, and 800 scenarios presented here as to who and why this happened. Youtube has alot of the videos on their website that are very interesting and helpful. I just used a search engine and typed in YouTube Pike county murders, and the video info will come up.

I have looked at some of what is out there and who was murdered as well as the family relationships and I know about the 800 scenario's . I am not behind however, reading here to catch up can make it feel like anyone is years behind sometimes in a matter of minutes. I have even checked out some of the victims facebooks ..I read thread 1 - 5 as well as scrolled 5 - 19 so what I wanted to know was what exactly it is about LE not releasing the death certs that is so upsetting to everyone. Is there a real complaint to be made that LE could be involved and if that could be would it be the entire dept or could it a few involved that could already be under investigation and the reports are not being made available for a good cause? Evidence pointing to something more sinister ? I wish I had time to catch myself up as current as everyone but I don't.

 

[glf]

I have looked at some of what is out there and who was murdered as well as the family relationships and I know about the 800 scenario's . I am not behind however, reading here to catch up can make it feel like anyone is years behind sometimes in a matter of minutes. I have even checked out some of the victims facebooks ..I read thread 1 - 5 as well as scrolled 5 - 19 so what I wanted to know was what exactly it is about LE not releasing the death certs that is so upsetting to everyone. Is there a real complaint to be made that LE could be involved and if that could be would it be the entire dept or could it a few involved that could already be under investigation and the reports are not being made available for a good cause? Evidence pointing to something more sinister ? I wish I had time to catch myself up as current as everyone but I don't.

Lord, you asked a mountain of questions in your post! But, that's why we're here. We all have concerns about JJ, the former PCSD who is facing two counts of murder. May be drawing straws on this one, but alot of us wonder if he doesn't have his hands in these murders too.
The autopsy reports would give everyone a good idea as to what time the murders occurred, and since 7 of the 8 were shot multiple times, we're all trying to make sense of that. We have no idea how many shooters are involved, how many calibers the guns were, and why were some of the victims who were reportedly shot in their sleep were shot anywhere from two to five times? Personal vendetta, disliked this person more than that person, felt like some people were more at fault than others...We all feel like there is important info in the autopsy reports that might lead us in the right direction to figuring out the why and how of many questions. So far, they have withheld all but one of the incident reports, all of the personal info on who rec'd how many bullets, with the exception of Chris, who rec'd nine, Gary who rec'd three, and Dana, two. Gary's dad was told by somebody at the funeral home he had three shots to the head, Chris was the only person who had shots on his torso, and one limb, two shots to the head. The cousin who found Kenny stated he had one **** to the head.
LE is sealing everything that is important or might be important away from the family and public. The majority of the sealed info is supposed to be available as public info, and LE keeps saying that they don't THINK these reports are for public viewing, although the state laws say they are...

 

[jk204]

Updating my description of the suspect. This is my opinion:

THE SUSPECT:

1) Generally, the usual profile of a mass shooter is a lone male, loves guns, often young in teens or 20's. In a family mass murder, he is usually a family member, an ex-husband or lover, a neighbor.

To my knowledge, in US history, there is no precedent of family mass murder of this scale with multiple locations where the perp is someone unrelated to the victims.

2) What the family said:
- perp probably knew dogs , and about cameras
- perp was someone trusted by KR
- they don't believe in the cartel
- It was also reported they were "stalked"

3) My own conclusions regarding the perpetrator. He is:
- single: since crimes happened at night
- strong person: bodies were dragged. CRsr wounds are consistent with a scuffle with the gunman.
- Most probably close to the circles of i) weed trade and/or ii) demolition derby because of the trust relationship with KR

4) Two behaviours were also observed. It is possible the perp demonstrated them in other events:
- breaking or entering at night
- stalking

5) Multiple perpetrators?

It is unusual in mass murders. The level of violence is not necessarily implying multiple perps and there is nothing made public in this case that proves it. However the AG did say "you would think more than one person is involved". This statement could have different meanings.

6) have a nice day

 

[glf]

AG Mike is going to drive everybody to drinking! He's a typical Atty. Doesn't tell anybody a darn thing, and changes the way he says it at least six times in one conversation!

 

[rsd1200]

I have looked at some of what is out there and who was murdered as well as the family relationships and I know about the 800 scenario's . I am not behind however, reading here to catch up can make it feel like anyone is years behind sometimes in a matter of minutes. I have even checked out some of the victims facebooks ..I read thread 1 - 5 as well as scrolled 5 - 19 so what I wanted to know was what exactly it is about LE not releasing the death certs that is so upsetting to everyone. Is there a real complaint to be made that LE could be involved and if that could be would it be the entire dept or could it a few involved that could already be under investigation and the reports are not being made available for a good cause? Evidence pointing to something more sinister ? I wish I had time to catch myself up as current as everyone but I don't.

I am with you on folks being upset about the autopsy not being made public. Sometimes, there's just reason that we, as private citizens, do not "need" to know everything, even though we "want" to know everything. I personally, do not see that releasing the autopsy to the general public is going to be of any significant help to solving this crime. One more interesting note on this topic, released re; another case in Ohio, in 2012:

"Autopsy reports are non-public confidential law enforcement records to the extent that their release would create a high probability of disclosure of specific investigatory work product. Other records of the coroner that are not public records include medical and psychiatric records of the deceased, confidential law enforcement investigatory records, or lab reports generated by the coroner’s lab." (Reporters can send a written request to the coroner to view the coroner's info, but, the autopsy is different. The autopsy is performed by a medical examiner, and is not considered public from what I personally understand from this article.)
http://www.rcfp.org/special-reports/legal-guide-reporters-covering-ohio-shootings

 

[Soulmagent]

Lord, you asked a mountain of questions in your post! But, that's why we're here. We all have concerns about JJ, the former PCSD who is facing two counts of murder. May be drawing straws on this one, but alot of us wonder if he doesn't have his hands in these murders too.
The autopsy reports would give everyone a good idea as to what time the murders occurred, and since 7 of the 8 were shot multiple times, we're all trying to make sense of that. We have no idea how many shooters are involved, how many calibers the guns were, and why were some of the victims who were reportedly shot in their sleep were shot anywhere from two to five times? Personal vendetta, disliked this person more than that person, felt like some people were more at fault than others...We all feel like there is important info in the autopsy reports that might lead us in the right direction to figuring out the why and how of many questions. So far, they have withheld all but one of the incident reports, all of the personal info on who rec'd how many bullets, with the exception of Chris, who rec'd nine, Gary who rec'd three, and Dana, two. Gary's dad was told by somebody at the funeral home he had three shots to the head, Chris was the only person who had shots on his torso, and one limb, two shots to the head. The cousin who found Kenny stated he had one **** to the head.
LE is sealing everything that is important or might be important away from the family and public. The majority of the sealed info is supposed to be available as public info, and LE keeps saying that they don't THINK these reports are for public viewing, although the state laws say they are...

Does JJ have any connection to the family at all? Or does Jason Brady? Booker? Is there anything real that could connect them all ? I tend to think if the PCSO could do that they would for sure do that . The sheriffs office there is taking a lot of crap over that and they have a person available to use as patsy. Yet they are not. Even though the public seems to be more than willing to accept that he could have something to do with it , than to think there is a mass murderer on the loose in the county. I get why JJ would draw the attention in this case but there does not seem to be any thing relative between the 3 cases.

 

[jk204]

Does JJ have any connection to the family at all? Or does Jason Brady? Booker? Is there anything real that could connect them all ? I tend to think if the PCSO could do that they would for sure do that . The sheriffs office there is taking a lot of crap over that and they have a person available to use as patsy. Yet they are not. Even though the public seems to be more than willing to accept that he could have something to do with it , than to think there is a mass murderer on the loose in the county. I get why JJ would draw the attention in this case but there does not seem to be any thing relative between the 3 cases.

I totally agree, and your post comes at the right time for my last comment of the day.

Whenever a woman is killed in her bed, the investigation should start by looking at the men surrounding her. And that is, imo, irrespective of any business her man got into.

Here we have 3 mothers, including a teen who just brought home a newborn with no official father.

I am a bit disappointed that we are so quick to jump on the mexican mob and the cop on a free ride. Violent men have nice days ahead of them if we can't be more critical of domestic issues whenever pot is found on the property.

 

[sumzero]

I totally agree, and your post comes at the right time for my last comment of the day.

Whenever a woman is killed in her bed, the investigation should start by looking at the men surrounding her. And that is, imo, irrespective of any business her man got into.

Here we have 3 mothers, including a teen who just brought home a newborn with no official father.

I am a bit disappointed that we are so quick to jump on the mexican mob and the cop on a free ride. Violent men have nice days ahead of them if we can't be more critical of domestic issues whenever pot is found on the property.

It is possible, perhaps even likely, that some of the victims were collateral damage. That is, one person was the main target at each location, but no one who was a potential witness could be spared. So, this could account for the young mothers being killed.

 

[bluesneakers]

I am kidding of course. I promise my next post will be more serious.
And no, I don't think the rogue LE is the most probable scenario.

At first I thought "Whaaaa... ?!" And then I realized I was probably totally missing the joke. :doh:

 

[jk204]

It is possible, perhaps even likely, that some of the victims were collateral damage. That is, one person was the main target at each location, but no one who was a potential witness could be spared. So, this could account for the young mothers being killed.

You are missing the point. Still trying to explain her kill with a mob logic. Look at the reality of family killings. They are about pain and lust, rarely about greed.

And if we just look at the sequence of events, I would rather come with this order:

She was killed in her bed, so I would say she was the first killed in her house and others were collateral damage.

Same for HHG and FR, they were killed in bed. Their neighbors GR and CR were killed in their living room. So considering the noise made by the multiple shootings, who do you think were killed first? Who got up to see what was going on?

 

[glf]

Does JJ have any connection to the family at all? Or does Jason Brady? Booker? Is there anything real that could connect them all ? I tend to think if the PCSO could do that they would for sure do that . The sheriffs office there is taking a lot of crap over that and they have a person available to use as patsy. Yet they are not. Even though the public seems to be more than willing to accept that he could have something to do with it , than to think there is a mass murderer on the loose in the county. I get why JJ would draw the attention in this case but there does not seem to be any thing relative between the 3 cases.

I hope I am remembering correctly, it was either Hanna R or Hannah and Frankie who was friends with Booker and his sister. That info was in another thread. I don't think anybody knew J Brady in the family. If anybody knew JJ, I don't know, but we all strongly believe JJ may have known about the Rhodens many enterprises. He seemed to have made alot of things happening in Pike county his business. I know that kinda goes along with his job, but he has made everybody on this forum think he made everything he could stick his nose into others business, and to take matters into his own hands, whether his methods were completely legal or not. Or we think he would take advantage of his knowledge and hold it over his head.
He has brought all of this distrust upon himself by the way he handles things, and killing two people within months of each other, having several witnesses seeing him and another cop gathering bullet casings after Booker was killed, and before more LE showed up. Then "accidentally" shooting and killing his neighbor in his garage. It is just downright impossible to believe everything he's told to LE concerning the two shootings.

 

[jk204]

I hope I am remembering correctly, it was either Hanna R or Hannah and Frankie who was friends with Booker and his sister. That info was in another thread. I don't think anybody knew J Brady in the family. If anybody knew JJ, I don't know, but we all strongly believe JJ may have known about the Rhodens many enterprises. He seemed to have made alot of things happening in Pike county his business. I know that kinda goes along with his job, but he has made everybody on this forum think he made everything he could stick his nose into his business, and to take matters into his own hands, whether his methods were completely legal or not. Or we think he would take advantage of his knowledge and hold it over his head.
He has brought all of this distrust upon himself by the way he handles things, and killing two people within months of each other, having several witnesses seeing him and another cop gathering bullet casings after Booker was killed, and before more LE showed up. Then "accidentally" shooting and killing his neighbor in his garage. It is just downright impossible to believe everything he's told to LE concerning the two shootings.

Please don't speak on my behalf when you say "We all believe in this forum".

 

[Jax49]

I hope I am remembering correctly, it was either Hanna R or Hannah and Frankie who was friends with Booker and his sister. That info was in another thread. I don't think anybody knew J Brady in the family. If anybody knew JJ, I don't know, but we all strongly believe JJ may have known about the Rhodens many enterprises. He seemed to have made alot of things happening in Pike county his business. I know that kinda goes along with his job, but he has made everybody on this forum think he made everything he could stick his nose into his business, and to take matters into his own hands, whether his methods were completely legal or not. Or we think he would take advantage of his knowledge and hold it over his head.
He has brought all of this distrust upon himself by the way he handles things, and killing two people within months of each other, having several witnesses seeing him and another cop gathering bullet casings after Booker was killed, and before more LE showed up. Then "accidentally" shooting and killing his neighbor in his garage. It is just downright impossible to believe everything he's told to LE concerning the two shootings.

Please don't speak on my behalf when you say "We all believe in this forum".

You are quick, lol. I was just typing the same thing.

 

[glf]

please don't speak on my behalf when you say "we all believe in this forum".

sorry!!! I honestly thought I was remembering to say most of us or alot of us. I'll proof read better next time.

 

[GTAWmom]

I have to say that it is just impossible for me to to have one theory as to who done it with out some details on the crime scene. With that said I feel like who ever was involved has some deep emotional things going on. Whether it grew from passion, jealousy, or money. I dont feel like they were all taken out and it was just business. If the person or persons where young the planning was a long time coming IF there is little to no evidence at the crime scene. On the other hand it could be that there is a great deal of evidence and if that the case I would think that it was passion and little planning. It's all in the details which I don't have. I read the whole thread (I believe) on Saturday. It was my first time checking out Websleuths and the first story I started to read up on. If there are other threads else where would someone be so kind as to direct me. I YouTubed and searched the web for articles and local forums for gossip all day yesterday. My mind is starving for new information.

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[hec60504]

There was allegedly little evidence found - at first only 18 pieces, then later maybe around 100. IMO, these killings were cold, very well planned, and carried out with precision; the subjects who did this are wolves; there was no passion involved, just a job.

 

[GTAWmom]

There was allegedly little evidence found - at first only 18 pieces, then later maybe around 100. IMO, these killings were cold, very well planned, and carried out with precision; the subjects who did this are wolves; there was no passion involved, just a job.

18 pieces could be a lot if it was physical evidence at the scenes. Many crimes at solved with only 1 strong piece of physical evidence. Some have had convictions without any.... just a thought. It is possible out of those 18 pieces that 4 or 5 is actually DNA. Do you recall who and/or where it was said that there is very little evidence?

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[GTAWmom]

If it was LE that might be significant information but if it was a reporter they will always sensationalized everything they report.

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[hec60504]

I actually think there were 4 LEO's involved. Any seasoned LEO can break into a home quite easily, knows how to not leave behind any evidence, is strong (I used to work out between 4-6 hours/day, every day - and I'm a girl who was a LEO), and is quite comfortable with firearms...

I totally agree, and your post comes at the right time for my last comment of the day.

Whenever a woman is killed in her bed, the investigation should start by looking at the men surrounding her. And that is, imo, irrespective of any business her man got into.

Here we have 3 mothers, including a teen who just brought home a newborn with no official father.

I am a bit disappointed that we are so quick to jump on the mexican mob and the cop on a free ride. Violent men have nice days ahead of them if we can't be more critical of domestic issues whenever pot is found on the property.