OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #32

[Betty P]

I remember that but I don't know if it was a "functioning" church, or just kind of a church that came with the property, so they used it for family events. or if it's some sort of family compound. I'll also say, that not attending a parent's funeral is odd, unless financial difficulties just prevents going. It is a long way though.

From the photos at the link above, the church looks like it's still very well maintained and being used by someone who isn't a member of the family. As for not coming back for a parent's funeral, it could be they risked being detained and questioned by LE. Maybe the whole point of moving far away was to avoid being called in to testify in the Grand Jury or something similar. Coming back to that jurisdiction could be a problem.

 

[MizStery]

Just putting this here while it’s fresh on my brain. The reporter says “because they(investigators) told him(LM) that they (investigators) found a text message that James had sent Wagner at 2am”

There’s been a lot of speculation that LM learned of the text from JM. It appears that LM learned of the text from LE, not JM.

https://youtu.be/CWy3QSE9K_g

Pike County judge: Evidence tampering charge to be heard by grand jury
Chris Graves, [email protected]Published 9:01 a.m. ET May 22, 2017 | Updated 5:17 p.m. ET May 22, 2017
<snip>
Leonard Manley said he thinks agents put the GPS device on the truck after they found a text message sent from his son's phone to Jake Wagner at 2 a.m. April 22, 2016. Jake Wagner is a former boyfriend of victim Hanna Rhoden. Leonard Manley said a BCI agent told him about the text message but did not disclose what it said.
Family members have said in the past that they routinely sent text and Facebook messages to each other.
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2017/05/22/rhoden-evidence-tampering-court-today/102003386/

 

[rsd1200]

I’ve never seen something so bizarre in my life. It’s all just WEIRD. The poster of those pics lists themselves as a “gardener” on fb and also lists a military career.

It looks like, if you mean the red-roofed areas, a horse breeding/training facility. You'd have the stalls for the mares and foals. A stud barn area, and an office. They show horses too, so one is likely an indoor arena, and a place to tie and wash.

They bred dogs too. Mastiffs and designer dogs called "pocket beagles". There's one long stretch of building that appears to have outdoor runs (I think some of these buildings are falling into disrepair). I think they still had foals for sale last year. I wasn't sleuthing them in particular just interested in the horses.

These folks are also "breed founders" of a horse breed called the Georgian Grande. I think they had other breeds they fooled with too, partly to get the the GGs. They probably toured the show circuits with their best horse(s), to generate stud fees, sell foals, and horses under saddle, to others wanting into the show business with a flashy, new, breed. These aren't horses that you'd usually see at the county fair, although some might be ending up there soon, or at rescues, if they don't have "it".

It costs to feed, breed, train, pay vets, and do upkeep on barns. Like other animals, some folks go into the horse showing/breeding business and end up broke, and practically giving them away, others know how to make it, and enjoy what they do, others create animal pyramid schemes. It seems the Ws started a new breed of horse, or got in on the ground floor. Even on a small scale, horse breeding and showing, is still expensive. Owning a single horse isn't cheap. Just this past week they did a show about the wild horses of Eastern Kentucky. Folks don't have the heart to take the family horses to the yards, when times get hard, so they started sneaking and turning them loose in the mountains. Stud meets mare, and the resulting foal grows up wild.

Some of the folks listed on the GG Horse registry, seem to have broken website links now. Maybe they moved sites, I didn't dig that far, I admit, but, it can also happen when buying into new designer animal lines. The registry fee is to be sent to an address in Piketon, Ohio. As OP said, on here, their zoo has furry pigs being donated to them now.

If anything the elders are, imo, making money off the lives of innocent animals. Being a breeder, to improve, and preserve the breed, and to keep it alive, is one thing. I'm not feeling that here. Maybe at first, but idk.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

It just always struck me as odd that the elder pastor of these flocks commuted back and forth with these churches in Minford, OH and the ones in AK. Maybe not odd, maybe a lot of independent ministries work this way. It's not like AK is a location for missionary work, though. IIRC, there was a news article where the elder pastor mentioned he had also traveled back to Ohio recently, kind of like he used to go back and forth on a regular basis.

http://www.ktva.com/story/36050283/info-wanted-on-family-in-connection-with-mass-killings

ETA: I also find it odd that there may be some connection to the "survivalist" business community.

No, it’s definitely odd IMO. I don’t think it would raise many questions, if say there was travel back and forth to a closer location that had the population and need for such mission work. Or maybe if it was travel to commonly known places for mission work, like Haiti. But 4000 miles for that kind of work doesn’t really seem to “fit”the travel location. JMO

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Yes, LM said that LE told him that there was a text from JM to JW. It is possible there was no text. LE might have been trying to get a reaction out of him...

They very well could have been. Or perhaps they wanted the only known person to be very vocal to the press to know that info so that he could share it with the media. It’s hard to know what is truth and what was said to serve another purpose.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Just have one problem with the door's being unlocked. The Rhoden's had been expereincing trouble by several different sources. Kids showing up to fight, previous fights with neighbors, fights at McDonald's, fights over traffic situation (RRL), etc. They had (kids mostly) been patroling their road with bats and weapons. And their little mj thing. That's why I think it was someone they trusted and let in, or someone burst in their homes, or someone spent the night with them. JMO

I looked back at some old pictures this evening, Dana’s front door for sure had a deadbolt. How does one get thru a deadbolt (if locked) without kicking a door in or doing some fancy scene in the movies trick to pop the lock out? (The lock doesn’t looked damaged, at least from the pic)

 

[amauet1]

It looks like, if you mean the red-roofed areas, a horse breeding/training facility. You'd have the stalls for the mares and foals. A stud barn area, and an office. They show horses too, so one is likely an indoor arena, and a place to tie and wash.

They bred dogs too. Mastiffs and designer dogs called "pocket beagles". There's one long stretch of building that appears to have outdoor runs (I think some of these buildings are falling into disrepair). I think they still had foals for sale last year. I wasn't sleuthing them in particular just interested in the horses.

These folks are also "breed founders" of a horse breed called the Georgian Grande. I think they had other breeds they fooled with too, partly to get the the GGs. They probably toured the show circuits with their best horse(s), to generate stud fees, sell foals, and horses under saddle, to others wanting into the show business with a flashy, new, breed. These aren't horses that you'd usually see at the county fair, although some might be ending up there soon, or at rescues, if they don't have "it".

It costs to feed, breed, train, pay vets, and do upkeep on barns. Like other animals, some folks go into the horse showing/breeding business and end up broke, and practically giving them away, others know how to make it, and enjoy what they do, others create animal pyramid schemes. It seems the Ws started a new breed of horse, or got in on the ground floor. Even on a small scale, horse breeding and showing, is still expensive. Owning a single horse isn't cheap. Just this past week they did a show about the wild horses of Eastern Kentucky. Folks don't have the heart to take the family horses to the yards, when times get hard, so they started sneaking and turning them loose in the mountains. Stud meets mare, and the resulting foal grows up wild.

Some of the folks listed on the GG Horse registry, seem to have broken website links now. Maybe they moved sites, I didn't dig that far, I admit, but, it can also happen when buying into new designer animal lines. The registry fee is to be sent to an address in Piketon, Ohio. As OP said, on here, their zoo has furry pigs being donated to them now.

If anything the elders are, imo, making money off the lives of innocent animals. Being a breeder, to improve, and preserve the breed, and to keep it alive, is one thing. I'm not feeling that here. Maybe at first, but idk.

OMG, they don't breed horses like they do "pure breed" dogs, when their breeding for just profit do they? Cause "prue breed" dogs get breeded with their parents, brothers, sister's, etc. It causes terrible health issues with the animals, not to mention defeats. It's incest and cruel.

 

[rsd1200]

Curious to hear your thoughts on KR. He’s always been the one who doesn’t quite fit into any of my own theories.

I've tossed them out, a couple times throughout the case. It's difficult to go too far because of TOS. KR, moved out there all alone, one nearby neighbor, and that one's not within seeing distance, really. I've wondered if he wanted to distance himself from 4077. He was living in the little yellow house for a spell. Did KR know that CR1 was getting into something, that KR was not willing to get tangled up in? He knew though. That was the problem, even if he wasn't mixed up in it.

KR's door was left open, Brownie is still right there, and she showed her disdain for strangers, KR2 said that KR usually slept with a firearm under his pillow, it's also said he had several cameras installed. So, sounds like a guy who took extra precautions, and may be a bit paranoid, even. Not uncommon if you're mixed up in illegal activities. Yet, with all of that, someone waltzes right in, Brownie never hears a thing, and shoots him in the head, but only one shot for KR. I'm still seeing familiarity with the victims, all around these murders.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I've tossed them out, a couple times throughout the case. It's difficult to go too far because of TOS. KR, moved out there all alone, one nearby neighbor, and that one's not within seeing distance, really. I've wondered if he wanted to distance himself from 4077. He was living in the little yellow house for a spell. Did KR know that CR1 was getting into something, that KR was not willing to get tangled up in? He knew though. That was the problem, even if he wasn't mixed up in it.

KR's door was left open, Brownie is still right there, and she showed her disdain for strangers, KR2 said that KR usually slept with a firearm under his pillow, it's also said he had several cameras installed. So, sounds like a guy who took extra precautions, and may be a bit paranoid, even. Not uncommon if you're mixed up in illegal activities. Yet, with all of that, someone waltzes right in, Brownie never hears a thing, and shoots him in the head, but only one shot for KR. I'm still seeing familiarity with the victims, all around these murders.

That one shot has never sat well with me. I don’t meant that in any type of vicious context. It makes me wonder if the killers hung out longer after they shot him, to be certain he was gone. Perhaps, they didn’t feel as rushed at KR’s house because it was a little more secluded. Or it could go the other way though, they could’ve been rushed, thus only one shot fired.

The other 7 victims having so many shots to the head has always spoken to me that the person behind the trigger, wanted to make sure there was no chance of survival and that the killers couldn’t be identified by a possible surviving victim. I feel like it’s common knowledge that almost any gunshot to the head is fatal. Chances of surviving one shot are slim to none. Why shoot everyone so many times in the head??

Your theories are spot on, btw. Makes so much sense.

 

[molly1255]

That one shot has never sat well with me. I don&#8217;t meant that in any type of vicious context. It makes me wonder if the killers hung out longer after they shot him, to be certain he was gone. Perhaps, they didn&#8217;t feel as rushed at KR&#8217;s house because it was a little more secluded. Or it could go the other way though, they could&#8217;ve been rushed, thus only one shot fired.

The other 7 victims having so many shots to the head has always spoken to me that the person behind the trigger, wanted to make sure there was no chance of survival and that they couldn&#8217;t be identified. I feel like it&#8217;s common knowledge that almost any gunshot to the head is fatal. Chances of surviving one shot are slim to none. Why shoot everyone so many times in the head??

Your theories are spot on, btw. Makes so much sense.

I've always thought the number of times each person was shot may have had something to do with the level of anger the killer (s) felt at the person. I also get the feeling there wasn't much rage at KR, but the killer (s) felt he needed to die, perhaps because of something he witnessed or knew. It could also be KR was killed to throw off the investigation.

 

[rsd1200]

Crystal Springs Home, Inc is a licensed facility. Seems like on their last compliance report, they had some problems

http://providersearch.dodd.ohio.gov...2&LinkId=5C61FB4F-4443-431D-8650-3C19CC3DCA7D

Provider failed to ensure restrictive measures addressed and
approved by the HCR. Provider is currently using an
unapproved restrictive strategy by using a baby monitor and a
motion sensor in the kitchen area to observe individuals out of
view of staff.
Both monitoring devices were removed from the kitchen
during the review

Some employees had criminal records, said to be from a long time ago.

Provider didn't do background checks on employees

They are a licensed facility

http://providersearch.dodd.ohio.gov...2&LinkID=5C61FB4F-4443-431D-8650-3C19CC3DCA7D

Assume that means they can administer prescription drugs to patients

http://providersearch.dodd.ohio.gov/provider_results.aspx?providerID=6006362

And the church is right nearby

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=e...sAF1QipPN-wmoYLruTVhe6w7suVvxP0a87qeOCm96Uoqx

That's an old church building. It appears they might possibly use it as part of the Crystal Springs care center. They may use the church for that, and other gatherings with clients' families, and such. Kinda like my fil's nursing home. Only they have large day rooms for that, and a separate chapel that is built into the facility. Just a thought.

 

[Jennifer17]

I've always thought the number of times each person was shot may have had something to do with the level of anger the killer (s) felt at the person. I also get the feeling there wasn't much rage at KR, but the killer (s) felt he needed to die, perhaps because of something he witnessed or knew. It could also be KR was killed to throw off the investigation.

But do we know who the number of shots to each victim. One was shot nine times, but we don't know who that was.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

That's an old church building. It appears they might possibly use it as part of the Crystal Springs care center. They may use the church for that, and other gatherings with clients' families, and such. Kinda like my fil's nursing home. Only they have large day rooms for that, and a separate chapel that is built into the facility. Just a thought.

As of May 2016 it looks like it was still in use, as this radio broadcast below prompted children who grew up in the “mission” to bring their own children to VBS.

http://www.radiolineup.com/stations/WUKV-FM

 

[rsd1200]

I can only give my opinion, because I don’t know for fact. Perhaps, they were involved in a bad business deal. Maybe over land? Or it could really be as simple as two feuding families. Two sets of parents trying to protect their child and grandchild. Maybe the Rhoden family was fed up with the W’s hanging their money and status over their heads as a way to get S. So, CRsr purchased a nice home for his daughter and grandchild to reside in with DR. That would have infuriated the W’s because any chance they had at using living conditions as leverage to get S was now gone. Fast forward a couple weeks and maybe the W’s thought they could persuade HMR to sign off custody, taking advantage of her being young and naive. But that didn’t work either, which then lead to a confrontation between the two fathers of the families. Again, the W’s were defeated. How many times does one family, who’s used to power and having the upper hand, get defeated, until they erupt?

Now, let’s look at the day baby K was born. IMO, JW was only at that hospital to bring S there to see her new sister. And to check for one feature that may elude to the new baby being his. His interviews say that he saw that feature on the child, but did he really? No one can confirm that but him. Hanna May is dead and can’t speak to what happened in that hospital room. But one thing that stuck out to me, is how JW mentioned pulling the sock off the newborns foot. Newborns don’t wear socks in the hospital. The majority of hospitals no longer let you even dress a newborn in regular clothes for safety precautions (kidnapping). Newborns have id bands on their ankles as well and that also make it difficult for socks on the feet while still in the hospital. We know now, the baby was not his, so IF he saw that family feature, his eyes must’ve been deceiving him.

Fast forward to April 22, 2016. S was in the custody of JW and was to be returned home that night. In the mean time, all of the above transpired. HMR is no longer pregnant. JW doesn’t have to worry about an unborn child that he thinks may be his, dying inside the womb of her murdered mother. For the W’s, all of this could have meant it was time to set their plan in motion.

And that mysterious text message, what if JM happened to be our late that night and texted JW because he saw JW somewhere? Like a “hey man just saw your truck, what are you doing out this late” kinda text.

This is all of course hypothetical and just my opinions. I do know people have murdered for way less. It doesn’t have to take drug cartels, sending messages to the living, or long thought out planning. Sometimes, there’s a lot in the small pictures of shady businesses and people growing marijuana, that clouds the simple big picture.

BBM

He didn't exactly say he saw it, but it would be awfully hard to see on the little fellas anyway. They tend to curl their toes up. He didn't hang around here til June waiting for materials to submit DNA, for nothing, unless a court ordered him to do so. He seemed warm to the baby being his before the birth, and he stuck around for a reason. He could have provided his DNA and left if he really, truly, didn't think she was his.

My last grandchild, is not far from Ks age, and yes, the bands, everyone in the family has to have a band, and it is checked. They will let you bring your own little things to put on the baby here though. Maybe some hospitals have stopped that, but I've seen some gussied up babies, in newborn photos.

He's almost sure, he said, that he saw that bend. It's the hope he holds onto these days.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...s-all-weve-got-left-just-those-kids/85231530/

 

[rsd1200]

Yes, it is for sure licensed. I agree with the fact that they can administer medications BUT the term administer medications in a group home means to make sure the residents take their prescribed medicines. There aren’t any medicines kept on hand that haven’t been written by a physician and then filled by a pharmacy. Where as a nursing home, does have a stocked pharmacy closet/room.

This link describes the difference and OH regulations.

https://aspe.hhs.gov/report/state-residential-care-and-assisted-living-policy-2004/ohio

Screenshot from your link earlier, just to show that this is group home.

ETA-I’d also like to point out this group home is for the developmentally disabled and also has a Bridge #, which indicates food stamps. Developmentally disabled people all receive SSI, food stamps, Medicaid and sometimes Medicare. Typically, when an individual lives in a residential group home, they have to pay rent to be there (out of their SSI check). There’s no billing done to insurances, like a nursing home.

That's the same address where folks are to mail their GG Horse Registries.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

BBM

He didn't exactly say he saw it, but it would be awfully hard to see on the little fellas anyway. They tend to curl their toes up. He didn't hang around here til June waiting for materials to submit DNA, for nothing, unless a court ordered him to do so. He seemed warm to the baby being his before the birth, and he stuck around for a reason. He could have provided his DNA and left if he really, truly, didn't think she was his.

My last grandchild, is not far from Ks age, and yes, the bands, everyone in the family has to have a band, and it is checked. They will let you bring your own little things to put on the baby here though. Maybe some hospitals have stopped that, but I've seen some gussied up babies, in newborn photos.



https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...s-all-weve-got-left-just-those-kids/85231530/

They do let you change your newborn for photos. However, most hospitals have stopped allowing any outside clothing until the baby is discharged. They actually started using one piece swaddlers on newborns, which have a barcode identifier on the outside of the swaddler that matches the ID band.

 

[rsd1200]

Also using Defiance Farms on fb

Defiance Farms is the same farm that the boys had in their name. AW named it though. It was named "Defiance" because they defied all chemicals, and fed their animals only natural products (including themselves). I think they also allowed hunting parties on the farm, and had certain animals that were there for that purpose (iirc). I'm not so sure I believe that about the name origin though.

 

[rsd1200]

Hmmm. Maybe that was DR’s work. Although I can’t understand LE being so harsh towards someone who’s bedridden.

I didn't take it as being harsh, and you know how LM is, he gives a little, then leaves ya hanging. I took it that he was scoffing, but, they had issued a search warrant, and had found something of interest, on a particular, elderly, man's, bedding. That could have been a blanket, or a pillow, quilt, etc... In my experience, they didn't likely go in there like gangbusters and rough the ole guy up and take his bedding, and leave him laying there. I'm leery of LE, but, most would not do that.

Now, how they tore the trailers apart, in that search? Typical.

 

[rsd1200]

There’s a picture inside that church, with all the Bible’s being different colors, in one of Betty’s links above.

I missed that one. The one that I think that the Ws are connected to in AK, iirc, is a KJV based, teaching, church. They see the KJV as being the truly inspired version of the Bible, from what I gather. I may be incorrect though.

 

[rsd1200]

Self delete