OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #32

[MittenScarpetta]

That red truck is of interest to them, and I can understand why. I think they might be calling JM a witness, due to him being on the scene that morning, in addition to something they didn't like about his vehicle that day, (I don't think it was about the tags, unless the prior owner and possibly some of his actions that day.

Installing a gps on a vehicle to monitor the vehicle's movements, is considered a search under the Fourth Amendment. I think they have 10 days to get the unit on the vehicle, from the time of the warrant.

They put the gps on the truck, because JM is considered a witness. He was charged with tampering and vandalism, which the judge dropped, and handed over to the Grand Jury. The Grand Jury, if they proceed on it, will be pushed to show their hand, by JM's atty.

LM said he thought it was about the 2:00 a.m. text message. I don't know if the text was the reason or not, but if I were LM, I'd have kept that to myself. JM could be called a witness simply by being the first person to walk into the crime scene.


Witness - Definition, Examples, Cases, Processes

To get that warrant, to put the gps tracker on the vehicle, a judge has to determine probable cause.


OSBA | Search Warrants 101

So, it seems, they simply wanted to keep track of where that vehicle was going, for the next 45 days, and delivered good reason to a judge. I wonder if JM was the only person who ever drove that vehicle?

That’s what’s strange. That red truck is not the one he was driving that day. Nor did he have that truck in his possession until early 2017. It was titled in his wife’s name on 3/18/17. Prior to that, it was titled on 2/24/16. I shared the title history and mileage many many pages back.

The only conclusion I can come up with is that red truck was seen on camera somwbere the night of the murders. And when it ended up in JM’s possession, LE placed the tracker. It very well could have had a tracker prior to that with the previous owner too. So a truck that LE believed was used in the commission of a murder was put into a witnesses hands. Was it a setup by whoever was driving the red truck that night?

And then I come all the way back to DS and a friend of a family member of his that owned that truck prior to JM. And then the wife who shot the dr. So I spin in circles because nothing makes sense.

I really wish we had a VI because maybe they could or would share the info about the truck JM was driving the day of the murders. As far as I can tell from my own sleuthing, that truck has never been seen again since LE seized it that day. LM said JM got the truck back (I think) but I’m not sure LM wasn’t confused. And I believe it’s being held with DR’s property, if that tells you anything. IMO, it did have to do with tags, but not illegal tags. It had to do with that truck legally belonging to to the victim found by said witness that day. I don’t think JM did anything wrong that day with the truck...it just wasn’t in his name yet. That’s just my opinion because I can’t link it anywhere. Perhaps it was a situation where a sister was selling a brother a vehicle and when the truck payment was a little late, the sister got upset and pulled the tags off the the truck because it still legally belonged to her until the truck was paid for in full.

 

[rsd1200]

That’s very informative. And very interesting. And behind bizarre about the 60’s...over smoking pot of all things. My how times have changed. I know in the Jon Benet case a GJ convened regarding the Ramseys and actually voted to bring charges against them for endangerment of a child that lead to death (might not be exact words but that’s what it meant) and the DA never chose to use the indictment and try them in court.

It does sort of seem like a double negative in James’ case. They absolutely brought the GPS Charges for a reason. Just like the $80,000 bond for a $300 piece of equipment. If the DA was trying to be secretive about their tactics there, it didn’t work. It’s an obvious as the sky is blue what they wanted. But I’m stumped as to why they wanted him.

The bond was not for the equipment, it was more about interfering with an investigation than anything. Another time that LM should have remained silent, imo. Had I wanted it off, that bad, I'd just busted the strap and dropped it out the window on my way to work, and not told LM. The best thing would have been to just let them track him on his way to and from work, and the grocery, and to whatever else mundane tasks he had to do. I mean, really, I'd not like it at all and would have been spittin' nails too but, now, in hindsight, I'd have just driven to work and back for 45 days and let them have that boring ole data. I think someone else found one on theirs and tipped him off to look for one on his, and he got ticked and destroyed it.

 

[rsd1200]

That’s what’s strange. That red truck is not the one he was driving that day. Nor did he have that truck in his possession until early 2017. It was titled in his wife’s name on 3/18/17. Prior to that, it was titled on 2/24/16. I shared the title history and mileage many many pages back.

The only conclusion I can come up with is that red truck was seen on camera somwbere the night of the murders. And when it ended up in JM’s possession, LE placed the tracker. It very well could have had a tracker prior to that with the previous owner too. So a truck that LE believed was used in the commission of a murder was put into a witnesses hands. Was it a setup by whoever was driving the red truck that night?

And then I come all the way back to DS and a friend of a family member of his that owned that truck prior to JM. And then the wife who shot the dr. So I spin in circles because nothing makes sense.

I really wish we had a VI because maybe they could or would share the info about the truck JM was driving the day of the murders. As far as I can tell from my own sleuthing, that truck has never been seen again since LE seized it that day. LM said JM got the truck back (I think) but I’m not sure LM wasn’t confused. And I believe it’s being held with DR’s property, if that tells you anything. IMO, it did have to do with tags, but not illegal tags. It had to do with that truck legally belonging to to the victim found by said witness that day. I don’t think JM did anything wrong that day with the truck...it just wasn’t in his name yet. That’s just my opinion because I can’t link it anywhere. Perhaps it was a situation where a sister was selling a brother a vehicle and when the truck payment was a little late, the sister got upset and pulled the tags off the the truck because it still legally belonged to her until the truck was paid for in full.

No, it wasn't in his possession the day of the murders but they were highly interested in that truck, too, and him, that day, for some reason. I think it may have been some of his actions. That doesn't mean he's guilty but it can make folks take note of you.

The red truck, no, it was not listed in JM's name, which is why I was wondering if someone else drove the vehicle besides JM. Yes, JM is considered a witness, but, he's not the only one who has access to that truck. They got the warrant for the vehicle. I'm guessing, that anyone who drove the vehicle, would be covered by the warrant.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

The bond was not for the equipment, it was more about interfering with an investigation than anything. Another time that LM should have remained silent, imo. Had I wanted it off, that bad, I'd just busted the strap and dropped it out the window on my way to work, and not told LM. The best thing would have been to just let them track him on his way to and from work, and the grocery, and to whatever else mundane tasks he had to do. I mean, really, I'd not like it at all and would have been spittin' nails too but, now, in hindsight, I'd have just driven to work and back for 45 days and let them have that boring ole data. I think someone else found one on theirs and tipped him off to look for one on his, and he got ticked and destroyed it.

I agree! Except after watching a show last night about a serial killer in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, I learned that the GPS Trackers have a really strong magnet. So had I been JM, I’d do what you suggested and give them really boring data and then I’d have hit a really hard bump and knocked that magnet off. I mean, it would’ve been way easier to say he never knew it was on there and it must’ve fallen off lol. And LM...he sometimes cuts his nose off to spite his face. He’s give us lots of info, but if he were my dad, I’d probably not be to happy with some things he shared publicly.

By the way, if you guys get a chance watch Dead North on ID about the crazy lady in upper Michigan. Oh my.

 

[Betty P]

On a slightly different topic, I still don't understand why LE, the prosecutor and a judge granted custody of S to JW. By that time, they had to know he and his family were suspects. With the growing investigation of the W family and their plans to move to AK, why did LE not step in? The handling of the custody of S is very hinky, too.

 

[rsd1200]

On a slightly different topic, I still don't understand why LE, the prosecutor and a judge granted custody of S to JW. By that time, they had to know he and his family were suspects. With the growing investigation of the W family and their plans to move to AK, why did LE not step in? The handling of the custody of S is very hinky, too.

Unless LE could show the family court/cps that they had evidence that would allow LE to arrest JW, and start prosecution, with a good likelihood of him going to prison for a very long period of time, there was nothing, in family court, to stop them from granting JW custody. He didn't have any serious arrest records, no drug charges, no child abuse issues, there was nothing that the family court could hold against him. He's never even been named a suspect.

If LE had taken incriminating evidence against JW, himself, to the powers that be, in Family Court, and CPS, to show that he was going to be arrested within a very short period of time, on some very serious charges, then it's likely that the Family Courts and the CPS caseworker would have worked to slow down the process, and placed S in foster care. He'd likely have gotten supervised visits, until LE could finalize things, to make an arrest. It does not appear that LE had anything significant enough to present to them.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

No, it wasn't in his possession the day of the murders but they were highly interested in that truck, too, and him, that day, for some reason. I think it may have been some of his actions. That doesn't mean he's guilty but it can make folks take note of you.

The red truck, no, it was not listed in JM's name, which is why I was wondering if someone else drove the vehicle besides JM. Yes, JM is considered a witness, but, he's not the only one who has access to that truck. They got the warrant for the vehicle. I'm guessing, that anyone who drove the vehicle, would be covered by the warrant.

Great point about anyone driving the vehicle being covered by the warrant. I tend to believe there was a gps on that truck before he got it as well. It may have required a new warrant because JM/AM were new owners.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

On a slightly different topic, I still don't understand why LE, the prosecutor and a judge granted custody of S to JW. By that time, they had to know he and his family were suspects. With the growing investigation of the W family and their plans to move to AK, why did LE not step in? The handling of the custody of S is very hinky, too.

I agree with both what you and RSD said regarding custody.

Besides the hinky meter going off, let’s consider who else could have gone after custody of S after the murders. LM could have. BJM could have. KMC could have. Any of the Rhodens could have. However, I think it would be a cold day in hell that the courts would have given any of the above custody of S. And I’m not family bashing in any way. Unfortunately facts are facts. LM is way too up in age to raise a toddler and well, I don’t believe his home would qualify for suitable living conditions. We know the records on Dana’s siblings and that rules them out. And the R’s, I think the only one who would’ve ever been able to fight for S and stand a chance would have been KR2. I think JW got her cause he is the father and I don’t think he has to fight very hard despite what his page said. At the end of the day, people are people. We all make mistakes and lots of people have records and don’t live in conditions suitable to the next persons standards. I don’t judge anyone but the courts do and they look at all of that when considering custody. I would guess the people who could have tried probably knew that as well when it came to courts.

What I worry about is what if the W’s are guilty and convicted. Where will S go then? I don’t put it past them to already have their bases covered in that aspect and I’m afraid she’d end up with a church member. That scares me. JMO.

 

[rsd1200]

Great point about anyone driving the vehicle being covered by the warrant. I tend to believe there was a gps on that truck before he got it as well. If any have required a new warrant because JM/AM were new owners.

Very well could have had a gps on it prior and they got it off before he got the vehicle. Considering their interest in the vehicle, and it's history, I'd definitely not doubt it.

 

[rsd1200]

I agree with both what you and RSD said regarding custody.

Besides the hinky meter going off, let’s consider who else could have gone after custody of S after the murders. LM could have. BJM could have. KMC could have. Any of the Rhodens could have. However, I think it would be a cold day in hell that the courts would have given any of the above custody of S. And I’m not family bashing in any way. Unfortunately facts are facts. LM is way too up in age to raise a toddler and well, I don’t believe his home would qualify for suitable living conditions. We know the records on Dana’s siblings and that rules them out. And the R’s, I think the only one who would’ve ever been able to fight for S and stand a chance would have been KR2. I think JW got her cause he is the father and I don’t think he has to fight very hard despite what his page said. At the end of the day, people are people. We all make mistakes and lots of people have records and don’t live in conditions suitable to the next persons standards. I don’t judge anyone but the courts do and they look at all of that when considering custody. I would guess the people who could have tried probably knew that as well when it came to courts.

What I worry about is what if the W’s are guilty and convicted. Where will S go then? I don’t put it past them to already have their bases covered in that aspect and I’m afraid she’d end up with a church member. That scares me. JMO.

If they are guilty, S would be brought back to Pike County or Adams County. There are several people who could apply for custody. LM and JM are only around 65, but, I doubt their health would allow them to take S. GSR is in no health to take her, but, either KR2 or her sis, TRM, who is older, and married, could try. Either of them, as long as they have a stable home, would likely be awarded custody. They'd definitely get a chance before non-family, as would any other cousins, aunts, uncles, etc... on either side of her family. They may take a Godparent into consideration, but unless things have changed recently, they'll usually place them with family, who may even be strangers to the child, over a family friend, who the child has grown up around.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

If they are guilty, S would be brought back to Pike County or Adams County. There are several people who could apply for custody. LM and JM are only around 65, but, I doubt their health would allow them to take S. GSR is in no health to take her, but, either KR2 or her sis, TRM, who is older, and married, could try. Either of them, as long as they have a stable home, would likely be awarded custody. They'd definitely get a chance before non-family, as would any other cousins, aunts, uncles, etc... on either side of her family. They may take a Godparent into consideration, but unless things have changed recently, they'll usually place them with family, who may even be strangers to the child, over a family friend, who the child has grown up around.

Yes, I agree. However, if the W’s have filed guardianship of S with someone close to them already, then there’s a problem. I’m not saying they have. It’s a big IF with me speculating. I just know there are ways, such as guardianship, they could use or have in place to prevent S going to the other family, at least at first.

I don’t know. I pray that at the end of the day they aren’t involved because that little girl is already going to face an uphill battle in life consider how her first two years started out. My heart breaks for the kids.

On another note, I know R and K, being an infant and a newborn won’t ever remember what they lived though. But has anyone else wondered how that will affect them as adults, even not having a memory of it? I wonder that even with them being babies if that will have any impact on their subconscious. I know the murders of their parents are going to affect all of the kids significantly. It’s just specifically with those two, I wonder a little more how being present during murders will affect them as a whole. I don’t know if I’m explaining what I’m trying to say correctly either. Hopefully this makes sense.

 

[Betty P]

WRT custody of S, LE had no qualms or problems with initially placing the other surviving children in foster care. JMO, they had the ability to convince a judge to do whatever they wanted in the matter. No local judge was going to question AG Dewine ' s decisions in the matter. His word would prevail, period. Recall, also, how secretive investigators were about the locations of the other 3 children in the months following. To me, this indicates LE were wrongly fixated on the immediate family, as evidenced by many of their other actions and words back then. By the time they figured out the W family were the most likely suspects, they were in a jam. They could have sought to take S from the W family, but for some reason didnt. Instead they were allowed to take S and leave for AK.

Even today, they could retrieve S from the W ' s and bring her back for placement with local family or friends, but they're not doing it. Again, no local judge would refuse DeWine if he made this request.

Bottom line, the W family continues to receive favorable treatment from LE and prosecutors as they did before, despite the laser focus on them. Theyre a family of "good Christians"In this case LE and prosecutors are the dogs that bark, but won't bite.

 

[rsd1200]

Yes, I agree. However, if the W’s have filed guardianship of S with someone close to them already, then there’s a problem. I’m not saying they have. It’s a big IF with me speculating. I just know there are ways, such as guardianship, they could use or have in place to prevent S going to the other family, at least at first.

I don’t know. I pray that at the end of the day they aren’t involved because that little girl is already going to face an uphill battle in life consider how her first two years started out. My heart breaks for the kids.

On another note, I know R and K, being an infant and a newborn won’t ever remember what they lived though. But has anyone else wondered how that will affect them as adults, even not having a memory of it? I wonder that even with them being babies if that will have any impact on their subconscious. I know the murders of their parents are going to affect all of the kids significantly. It’s just specifically with those two, I wonder a little more how being present during murders will affect them as a whole. I don’t know if I’m explaining what I’m trying to say correctly either. Hopefully this makes sense.

A legal guardianship, would have to have a court deem that the guardianship is appropriate. If the W family as a whole, committed the murders of eight people, then going to the courts for such a thing, may not be their wisest choice, remember, they have S & B. B has a living parent. If they committed this crime the courts are going to look really hard at whoever has S. I personally believe that the courts would look really hard at them naming guardians at this point in the game.

I get what you mean, about the babies, I don't think that the newborn, and six month old will have deep memories. I do worry about B. From what we have read, he is already exhibiting some fear issues.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

WRT custody of S, LE had no qualms or problems with initially placing the other surviving children in foster care. JMO, they had the ability to convince a judge to do whatever they wanted in the matter. No local judge was going to question AG Dewine ' s decisions in the matter. His word would prevail, period. Recall, also, how secretive investigators were about the locations of the other 3 children in the months following. To me, this indicates LE were wrongly fixated on the immediate family, as evidenced by many of their other actions and words back then. By the time they figured out the W family were the most likely suspects, they were in a jam. They could have sought to take S from the W family, but for some reason didnt. Instead they were allowed to take S and leave for AK.

Even today, they could retrieve S from the W ' s and bring her back for placement with local family or friends, but they're not doing it. Again, no local judge would refuse DeWine if he made this request.

Bottom line, the W family continues to receive favorable treatment from LE and prosecutors as they did before, despite the laser focus on them. Theyre a family of "good Christians"In this case LE and prosecutors are the dogs that bark, but won't bite.

I agree 100%. All 4 kids should have been protected from the start. And the W’s should have been looked at like everyone else, from the start. I’ll never understand why they weren’t. There’s no excuse for it. In any murder investigation, every ex and family member of a victim has to be ruled out. I’m not sure why it was different in Pike County.

If LE based their decision to not look at the W’s because they’re viewed as “good Christians” that’s just a crock of you know what. How many people go to prison and find the Lord? There’s prisons filled with murderers, rapists, and criminals who are born again Christians. I’m not saying the W’s are any of those things, but a lot of people come disguised as a wolf in sheeps clothing. For LE to think any different can’t even be explained as ignorance. It was pure favoritism.

I can say when this is over, no matter if the W’s aren’t involved in any way, I personally will never think they’re good people from all I’ve learned. And I pray that the two minor children in their care will not be in their care forever. And that’s JMO. As far as I can tell, they were never supposed to take the other minor child to Alaska. It doesn’t matter that GW4 was granted custody because the mother still has rights and visitation that’s not being fulfilled. There’s a law and rule in every state pertaining to custody that says the custodial parent cannot move further than x amount of miles away without permission from the non custodial parent and the courts.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

A legal guardianship, would have to have a court deem that the guardianship is appropriate. If the W family as a whole, committed the murders of eight people, then going to the courts for such a thing, may not be their wisest choice, remember, they have S & B. B has a living parent. If they committed this crime the courts are going to look really hard at whoever has S. I personally believe that the courts would look really hard at them naming guardians at this point in the game.

I get what you mean, about the babies, I don't think that the newborn, and six month old will have deep memories. I do worry about B. From what we have read, he is already exhibiting some fear issues.

I just realized that their custody case is in Ohio so that’s where they would have to file any additional guardianship at anyways, so yes I believe you’re correct. The courts would look at them with a side eye and call them crazy. Once custody is established in one state, that state has jurisdiction over those proceedings. Alaska courts have no say in any of that.

For instance, say B’s mother got the money she needed to file and fight against the wrongdoings in that custody and visitation case. The W’s would have to appear in Ohio courts for that, unless of course they arranged to call in to mediation.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

If they are guilty, S would be brought back to Pike County or Adams County. There are several people who could apply for custody. LM and JM are only around 65, but, I doubt their health would allow them to take S. GSR is in no health to take her, but, either KR2 or her sis, TRM, who is older, and married, could try. Either of them, as long as they have a stable home, would likely be awarded custody. They'd definitely get a chance before non-family, as would any other cousins, aunts, uncles, etc... on either side of her family. They may take a Godparent into consideration, but unless things have changed recently, they'll usually place them with family, who may even be strangers to the child, over a family friend, who the child has grown up around.

Yes, I should have clarified. LM is not elderly or old perse, but he is an old 65 if that makes sense. I feel like his body and health is older than his years in age. And JM, I don’t think I’ve ever seen her one time, even in passing on camera, so it’s hard to know the state of her health/mindset.

 

[Betty P]

I just realized that their custody case is in Ohio so that’s where they would have to file any additional guardianship at anyways, so yes I believe you’re correct. The courts would look at them with a side eye and call them crazy. Once custody is established in one state, that Starr has jurisdiction over those proceedings. Alaska courts have no say in any of that.

For instance, say B’s mother got the money she needed to file and fight against the wrongdoings in that custody and visitation case. The W’s would have to appear in Ohio courts for that, unless of course they arranged to call in to mediation.

That's a big question the news media should be asking- Why is a family that is LE's laser focus on a major murder investigation allowed to keep two young children in their custody? The judge in this case is Robert Rosenberger. Why hasn't he done something? Who is looking out for the welfare of the children while in AK? Why does B's mother have to raise money to contest this in court when the OH AG can do it on his own? DeWine is a powerful person with many friends in high places.

Let's hope the news media starts asking this question.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

That's a big question the news media should be asking- Why is a family that is LE's laser focus on a major murder investigation allowed to keep two young children in their custody? The judge in this case is Robert Rosenberger. Why hasn't he done something? Who is looking out for the welfare of the children while in AK? Why does B's mother have to raise money to contest this in court when the OH AG can do it on his own? DeWine is a powerful person with many friends in high places.

Let's hope the news media starts asking this question.

Excellent point. And Rosenberger, am I mistaken in thinking before he was a judge, he was an attorney who represented the W’s at one time in the past? I need to find their info from the guns charges and clarify that.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

The church they attend in Kenai has been there a while. It’s a hell and damnation sort if I recall right. Very private suspicious and secretive.

Just wondering what everyone else thinks. Would a Jim Jones style cult be "Bigger than a couple of MJ grows and a few stolen cars"? Per Sheriff Reader.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Just wondering what everyone else thinks. Would a Jim Jones style cult be "Bigger than a couple of MJ grows and a few stolen cars"? Per Sheriff Reader.

I almost said Jim Jones the other day in my post but stopped myself LOL. That’s exactly what comes to mind regarding the church. And yes-that would be way bigger than a few MJ grows and stolen cars.

Side note-Warren Jeff’s also comes to mind with the alienation, fire and brimstone, and secrecy.