OH - Pike County: 8 People From One Family Dead As Police Hunt For Killer(s) #36 *Arrests*

[Myland]

Those you've spoken with or overheard discussing: What are their opinions? What HAVE been their opinions up until the arrests? Just curious. TY.

Prior to arrests no one wanted to even say Rhodens very loud. People may wisper what do you think, but mostly no mention. Now it’s what do think about them Wagner’s then they state their opinion on the Wagner’s and it’s I found it hard to believe or I am shocked and etc.

 

[gizmobtj]

I’m beyond thankful the silencer was recovered. I’m just in awe at the Wags ignorance.

To even think you can get away with the of murder 8 people in premeditation by leaving a digital trail is just completely stupid. To keep a silencer made and used in the murders completely baffles me. Stupid isn’t the word for it.

I truly just think this group of four wholeheartedly believes they are above everyone, including the law, and that they answer to no one. I see them as thinking they are smarter than anyone out there. I’ve seen it over and over in their contradictory early media interviews. Their postings on various social media groups. Their outright lack of empathy for the Rhoden family while claiming to be best friends with them. It’s all just sickening to know that people like this habitate this world.

There is nothing I have seen to suggest that the Wagner's did not abandon the silencer 2 years ago and it was just found by law enforcement now.

Just because it was recovered in October, does not mean that it wasn't abandoned a long time ago

 

[CIA Team Member]

May have already been discussed: Why did RN's attorney for her husband's estate withdraw on 11/19/18? Also, why was her name different than her now deceased husband?

 

[almond]

Exactly they were great friends for a long time. I am saying that unless multiple victims blood or Gary or Kenny’s blood the defense could easily lie. There is plenty of evidence to prove how close the two families were.

Ok, but in 2 1/2 years I haven't seen proof that they were close, the two families. Do you know the families? Can you please provide evidence that they were close? I understand that you're playing the devil's advocate, that no murder case is a slam dunk. I also know that the researchers on this forum have amazing research skills and have been devoted to this case.

 

[almond]

Prior to arrests no one wanted to even say Rhodens very loud. People may wisper what do you think, but mostly no mention. Now it’s what do think about them Wagner’s then they state their opinion on the Wagner’s and it’s I found it hard to believe or I am shocked and etc.

Oh, if you knew my ex husband there's no way that you can tell by looking at him, talking to him, knowing how much $ he makes, who his family is..there's no way that you'd be able to figure out that he's a diagnosed covert sociopath. Not unless you're familiar with this personality disorder. Perhaps it's the same with the Wagner's? As in it's all about the mask you wear.

 

[almond]

May have already been discussed: Why did RN's attorney for her husband's estate withdraw on 11/19/18? Also, why was her name different than her now deceased husband?

I don't know why there was a withdrawal but he was her ex husband, N was the second hubby. Interesting on the withdrawal!

 

[CIA Team Member]

What stands out to me is the statement of their purchase of "special shoes," not "specific" shoes. And not stating "footwear" but specifically "shoes." So, we can rule out "boots?"

Personally, IMO, I take those 2 words as completely different/specific:
Special Shoes: Waterproof, leather, non-tread
Specific Shoes: Exact shoe size(s), dark-color
OR, are those all interchangeable to "special" and "specific?"

 

[IQuestion]

Hmm, bullets (recovered in autopsy) can have markings on them, that indicate more than just the barrel they were fired through. I think LE knew that soon after the autopsy....and a lot more they did not want to release. Keeps the perps guessing.

Copied from a video narration, though not this case. "
And the bullets looked like they had been fired

through more than just the barrel of a gun.

-These bullets went through something

that marked then unlike any normal gun barrel.

And it could be a flash suppressor, sound suppressor,

silencer or something along that line.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

May have already been discussed: Why did RN's attorney for her husband's estate withdraw on 11/19/18? Also, why was her name different than her now deceased husband?

Knowing that she couldn't make her bond for many day, she likely couldn't pay him and needed a public defender.

 

[IceIce9]

There was a very interesting interview with Hamilton County Ohio prosecutor Joe Deters, and segment regarding the Wagners and possible options for trials today on 700WLW Bill Cunningham show. Discussion regarding Pike County’s ability, or lack there of, to try death penalty cases.

Joe Deters has tried four seriel killers, and Hamilton county has more death row inmates than any other county in Ohio. Bill Cunningham is an attorney, and while much of what he says about the Wagner case is his opinion, it is very interesting and worth a listen.

It is available on podcast if you want to listen, Bill Cunningham 11-21-18

The segment is a little over 30 minutes long.

Bill Cunningham - 700WLW

 

[MittenScarpetta]

(I respectfully shortened your post.)
Is Fredericka's church that sits on her property associated with the same fringe groups?

The church owned by FW is named Lucasville Mission. We discussed the church in depth back on thread 32 or 33 I believe it was. I don’t believe we ever linked it to any fringe groups but there were some interesting theories.

 

[rsd1200]

Problem with car if true Rhoden blood found unless multiple victims blood or Gary’s or Kenny’s blood easy to explain since they were great friends.

BBM
I think

were

might be the operative word here. From all indications, the friendships had ended, prior to the murders.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

There is nothing I have seen to suggest that the Wagner's did not abandon the silencer 2 years ago and it was just found by law enforcement now.

Just because it was recovered in October, does not mean that it wasn't abandoned a long time ago

That is true. I don’t understand why the defendants would be so careless as to even leaving such a piece of evidence in one piece, let alone in a place to be later discovered. For well planned murders, it seems to be a very bold move by the defendants. And stupid. Thank God criminals and murderers always make mistakes.

 

[CIA Team Member]

Knowing that she couldn't make her bond for many day, she likely couldn't pay him and needed a public defender.

"IF" I'm reading the court docket entries correctly, there was an inventory. In his withdrawal it states his claim/request is $1,436. And, IIRC, lawyers are always paid first before creditors, if any. This particular lawyer isn't criminal, strictly family/civil litigator. I'm sure withdrawal is for obvious reason, but, just curious is all and I'm by far not a legalese.

 

[pepper 34]

I have great friends but none of them have ever bled in my vehicles. Why would they be bleeding?

And how long did the Wagners own that vehicle? My understanding is that the friendship between the families had soured some time before the murders. And did the Wagners take that particular vehicle to the fight they had with the Rhodens? And how many Rhodens were present at the fight and did they all get their blood onto the Wagners? Angela Wagners claims the vehicle belongs to her... why would any other family member have to use it? Surely it's not the only vehicle the Wagner family owns.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

And how long did the Wagners own that vehicle? My understanding is that the friendship between the families had soured some time before the murders. And did the Wagners take that particular vehicle to the fight they had with the Rhodens? And how many Rhodens were present at the fight and did they all get their blood onto the Wagners? Angela Wagners claims the vehicle belongs to her... why would any other family member have to use it? Surely it's not the only vehicle the Wagner family owns.

It’s not. She also posted another SUV for sale on that same site in February 2017. A black Dodge Durango.
Angela Wagner

 

[pepper 34]

Cut themselves. I am sure if it was blood it wasn’t like the entire seat cover covered in it or they would have burned the evidence

In the ad Angela Wagner wrote up to sell the vehicle she claims all the seat covers are leather. If true, that's going to make blood clean up pretty hard. You could clean the surface of the seat but the stitching and on the leather below the stitching... not so good. The rugs and below the rugs on the actual floor... internal surfaces of doors, deep in where any screws attach the doors... stupidity is using a vehicle like that to commit murder in the first place. I was generous and supposed there were some brains involved... I assumed a pickup truck, using only the bed of the pickup truck to transport the actual killers, was used. Later, you could clean that with bleach and a high powered hose. Still, you might miss some blood that way. But, I never dreamed anyone was idiot enough to use a vehicle like the one they did. And, not just one idiot but here, you have four of them.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Thank you I didn’t realize I needed to do that. I will put that with the posts I make without support I can share.

BBM

You are welcome. Sometimes those of us who have been here for a while forget that new posters don't know the accepted protocol.

These may be helpful abbreviations.

BBM........ Bolded By Me

IANAL.......I Am Not A Lawyer

MOO.........My Own Opinion

IMHO.........In My Honest Opinion

IMO.........In My Opinion

JMO..........Just My Opinion
Did I forget any? If so maybe others on here can list them for you. I hope this helps.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

In the ad Angela Wagner wrote up to sell the vehicle she claims all the seat covers are leather. If true, that's going to make blood clean up pretty hard. You could clean the surface of the seat but the stitching and on the leather below the stitching... not so good. The rugs and below the rugs on the actual floor... internal surfaces of doors, deep in where any screws attach the doors... stupidity is using a vehicle like that to commit murder in the first place. I was generous and supposed there were some brains involved... I assumed a pickup truck, using only the bed of the pickup truck to transport the actual killers, was used. Later, you could clean that with bleach and a high powered hose. Still, you might miss some blood that way. But, I never dreamed anyone was idiot enough to use a vehicle like the one they did. And, not just one idiot but here, you have four of them.

I agree. The ignorance is dumbfounding. Times 4.

 

[rsd1200]

Just found this interesting. I wonder how many successes they've had, in the criminal world, that they've committed, w/o being caught? I'm guessing more than a couple three.

For the most part, criminals plan every move while premeditating crimes. They calculate what will transpire from the moment they conceive of a crime until after they make their getaway. They know the occupational hazards of crime—getting caught, convicted, confined, injured or killed in a high risk crime. By the time a criminal is prepared to enact the crime, he is certain he will succeed and has eliminated these deterrents from consideration. There is a “superoptimism” in which he regards the crime as a fait accompli. His experience supports this certainty. He knows the likelihood of being arrested is low. He previously has gotten away with crimes without anyone suspecting him as the perpetrator. Aware of the possibility that he could slip up, he is certain that this will not happen “this time.”

One offender observed in a conversation with me that superoptimism “kills criminals more than anything else.” As an offender gets away with more and more crimes, he becomes emboldened and develops a sense of invulnerability. Then he may take greater chances. In some cases, the use of mind-altering substances contributes to recklessness. “Drugs knock off my caution,” one man told me. Some criminals who get away with complicated crimes subsequently let down their guard while committing a relatively minor offense.

From a responsible person’s perspective, a careless criminal may appear “crazy’ or “stupid.” But the criminal’s superoptimism is warranted by his extraordinary ability to cut off deterrents, by the number of his past successes, and by the care with which he devises current schemes. After the fact, criminals may acknowledge that they did something stupid or crazy but take offense to the slightest suggestion that they are crazy or stupid.

Do Criminals Desire to Get Caught?