OH - Samuel Dubose, 43, killed by Cincinnati LE during traffic stop, 19 July 2015

[sonjay]

Your correct that it was a "valid" stop. What I should have said was it was a BS stop. And I say that because I suspect that it almost never happens in a nice neighborhood to wealthy people. It is something that some cops will use to find probable cause to search a car or person they don’t like the looks of and that doesn’t seem right to me. There is enough crime out there that the police don’t need to go on a fishing trip.

BBM & snipped for focus.

Traffic stops are one of the key ways that police find criminals who have committed other crimes. The driver's behavior, demeanor, responses, etc., give the police valuable information about that person, and can cause a police officer to decide that they should dig a little deeper, ask more questions, ask the person to step out of the car, ask if they can search the car, etc. It's a legitimate, valid and valuable law enforcement tool.

And if a person acts like a criminal when stopped for a traffic violation, that person shouldn't be surprised if they're viewed like one.

 

[CoolJ]

BBM & snipped for focus.

Traffic stops are one of the key ways that police find criminals who have committed other crimes. The driver's behavior, demeanor, responses, etc., give the police valuable information about that person, and can cause a police officer to decide that they should dig a little deeper, ask more questions, ask the person to step out of the car, ask if they can search the car, etc. It's a legitimate, valid and valuable law enforcement tool.

And if a person acts like a criminal when stopped for a traffic violation, that person shouldn't be surprised if they're viewed like one.

How does one "act like a criminal"?

 

[Betty P]

It's been revealed that the bottle Samuel handed to the police officer before being killed actually contained an "air freshener".

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/coroner-ohio-motorist-shot-cop-bottle-fragrance-32859931

A bottle held up by a motorist during a traffic stop before he was fatally shot by a University of Cincinnati police officer apparently contained a fragrance, not alcohol, a coroner said Monday.

Hamilton County coroner Dr. Lakshmi Sammarco said in a statement that lab analysis found compounds consistent with those commonly found in air fresheners or perfumes.

UC police had said after the July 19 shooting of Samuel DuBose that he produced a bottle of alcohol during the traffic stop. A police body camera video released last week showed the bottle he picked up from his car floor appeared to be labeled as gin. Officer Ray Tensing had asked about the bottle while questioning DuBose after stopping him for not having a front license plate.

To me, it explains why Samuel handed him the bottle so readily and innocently. Not a good idea, of course, to keep air freshener in a bottle previously used for gin, but who would expect to get shot for something like that.

The officer had to have known it contained air freshener as well, as the scent would have been immediately apparent.

 

[Zuri]

I have been thinking about this tragedy for the past several days and taking all the emotion out of it. In 20/20 hindsight, shooting Mr. DuBose did not appear justified. IMO it was a split second judgement call by Officer Tensing, who very well could have thought his life was in danger in that second of time.

Yes, there were other options available it seems, but we were not the officer or there. Tensing used his own judgement in that second, anticipating that he might be killed or seriously hurt. Unfortunately, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior and IMO LEO are very aware that traffic stops can be dangerous and even deadly.

Mr. DuBose did not deserve to be killed in perfect 20/20 hindsight. I just wish so very much he had complied with the officer and not started the car and tried to drive away. For every action there is a reaction and in this case, 2 people's lives were altered and subsequently the lives of their families and friends.

I don't know if I can condemn Tensing in this case in theory. I am not looking at any other aspects other than human to human. Tensing should not have tried to open the door nor grab the seatbelt, just like DuBose should not have tried to flee.

No stones please. I am just so sad for both people and their families. IMO, JMV

 

[sonjay]

It's been revealed that the bottle Samuel handed to the police officer before being killed actually contained an "air freshener".

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/coroner-ohio-motorist-shot-cop-bottle-fragrance-32859931



To me, it explains why Samuel handed him the bottle so readily and innocently. Not a good idea, of course, to keep air freshener in a bottle previously used for gin, but who would expect to get shot for something like that.

The officer had to have known it contained air freshener as well, as the scent would have been immediately apparent.

BBM.

You don't really believe he was shot because he had air freshener in a gin bottle, do you?

 

[Cobra Jet]

BBM & snipped for focus.

Traffic stops are one of the key ways that police find criminals who have committed other crimes. The driver's behavior, demeanor, responses, etc., give the police valuable information about that person, and can cause a police officer to decide that they should dig a little deeper, ask more questions, ask the person to step out of the car, ask if they can search the car, etc. It's a legitimate, valid and valuable law enforcement tool.

And if a person acts like a criminal when stopped for a traffic violation, that person shouldn't be surprised if they're viewed like one.

I understand that it’s a tactic that the police use and I’m not completely against it in certain instances but there should be more than a cracked taillight as an indication of a possible crime. My biggest concerns are that they seem to use it far too often and disproportionally against the poor. If they can’t be more even handed about it, then they should not use it at all. There can be a crime going on in a 2015 Lexus as well as a 1988 Honda Civic.

 

[sonjay]

I understand that it’s a tactic that the police use and I’m not completely against it in certain instances but there should be more than a cracked taillight as an indication of a possible crime. My biggest concerns are that they seem to use it far too often and disproportionally against the poor. If they can’t be more even handed about it, then they should not use it at all. There can be a crime going on in a 2015 Lexus as well as a 1988 Honda Civic.

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here.

I'm not talking about a police officer seeing a cracked taillight and concluding that it's an indication of a possible crime.

I'm talking about a police officer stopping a car for a cracked taillight, and during the stop, the driver's demeanor, behavior and responses trigger the police officer's sense that something is amiss. If the driver refuses to provide a driver's license, registration or insurance, or claims he doesn't have it with him, if he has an opened gin bottle rolling around on the floor of the car, if the driver's answers to questions are non-responsive to the actual questions that were asked.... and so on and so forth. A person's behavior gives a police officer a lot of information about that person.

When red flags get set off, when the officer's "hinky meter" redlines, when the driver isn't behaving the way normal people behave during a minor traffic stop, that's when the officer might decide to ask the person to step out of the car, perhaps pat them down for any weapons, look through the windows to see if he can spot anything openly visible that shouldn't be there, ask for permission to search the car, and in general see what he can find out about what's going on that person and why they're behaving so weirdly.

Traffic cops have many, many interactions with people every day. Most of the time, it's an otherwise law-abiding citizen who has malfunctioning equipment, who was speeding, who rolled through a stop sign, etc. It's a normal, civilized interaction. The driver gets their ticket or their warning and off they go. The driver isn't happy about the ticket; no one is. But they still behave like normal, civilized people. Then there are the other stops, when the person behaves ... oh, perhaps the way SD behaved. Those are the stops that set off the hinky meter and caused the police officer to dig a little deeper. The officer didn't shoot him because the car was missing a front license plate, nor did he shoot him because he had air freshener in a gin bottle. SD's own behavior cause the police officer to ask him to step out of the car. And SD's decision to drive away rather than do as requested led directly to the shooting.

 

[Cobra Jet]

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here.

I'm not talking about a police officer seeing a cracked taillight and concluding that it's an indication of a possible crime.

I'm talking about a police officer stopping a car for a cracked taillight, and during the stop, the driver's demeanor, behavior and responses trigger the police officer's sense that something is amiss. If the driver refuses to provide a driver's license, registration or insurance, or claims he doesn't have it with him, if he has an opened gin bottle rolling around on the floor of the car, if the driver's answers to questions are non-responsive to the actual questions that were asked.... and so on and so forth. A person's behavior gives a police officer a lot of information about that person.

When red flags get set off, when the officer's "hinky meter" redlines, when the driver isn't behaving the way normal people behave during a minor traffic stop, that's when the officer might decide to ask the person to step out of the car, perhaps pat them down for any weapons, look through the windows to see if he can spot anything openly visible that shouldn't be there, ask for permission to search the car, and in general see what he can find out about what's going on that person and why they're behaving so weirdly.

Traffic cops have many, many interactions with people every day. Most of the time, it's an otherwise law-abiding citizen who has malfunctioning equipment, who was speeding, who rolled through a stop sign, etc. It's a normal, civilized interaction. The driver gets their ticket or their warning and off they go. The driver isn't happy about the ticket; no one is. But they still behave like normal, civilized people. Then there are the other stops, when the person behaves ... oh, perhaps the way SD behaved. Those are the stops that set off the hinky meter and caused the police officer to dig a little deeper. The officer didn't shoot him because the car was missing a front license plate, nor did he shoot him because he had air freshener in a gin bottle. SD's own behavior cause the police officer to ask him to step out of the car. And SD's decision to drive away rather than do as requested led directly to the shooting.

I agree that many times they might uncover a crime but I disagree with how they seem to use the cracked taillight or missing front license plate type of stop far more often for vehicles driven by the poor and minorities. If the driver is doing something else suspicious that’s a different story. If a missing license plate alone is enough to pull over an old Honda then it should be enough to pull over a new BMW.

Second, I don’t believe that Mr. Dubose had driven off at a high rate of speed endangering the officer before the officer shot him and I think the video shows that. The officer should have removed his hand from the car before shooting him since I think shooting someone should not be done unless he had no other options.. The fact that we found out later that Mr. Dubose had a record or may have had pot in the car can’t justify the shooting.

 

[octobermoon]

Local 12/WKRC-TV ‏@Local12 23m23 minutes ago
Tensing Investigation: Credibility questioned in prior case, @RAJaffe reports: http://bit.ly/1N8LSLS

 

[i.b.nora]

Local 12/WKRC-TV ‏@Local12 23m23 minutes ago
Tensing Investigation: Credibility questioned in prior case, @RAJaffe reports: http://bit.ly/1N8LSLS

Wow!!!

 

[octobermoon]

Wow!!!

Agree. Have no clue if the prosecution can get that into court but if he can..... wouldn't look good. Cowboy cop indeed.

 

[KEVINinTO]

Local 12/WKRC-TV ‏@Local12 23m23 minutes ago
Tensing Investigation: Credibility questioned in prior case, @RAJaffe reports: http://bit.ly/1N8LSLS

I think the reporter is stretching things to suggest the text messages were the reason charges were dropped against the two guys that assaulted Tensing.

ALL of the text msgs are from AFTER the assault. In them Tensing tells his friends that he is doing his own investigation and if police don't get his attackers he will. In another text he tells his friend that he handed over his "case file" to the investigating officer (he was studying law enforcement at the time and was already thinking like a cop). In a couple texts he makes reference to wishing he had a gun on him during the attack so the attackers would end up in "body bags". What is wrong with that? If I was attacked by two guys I would be saying the exact same thing. How does that undermine a case? In one text his friend uses the "N" word (I sure Tensing will now be labelled a "racist" because his friend used the "N" word). Tensing did use the gay slang "F" word so perhaps he is a "homophobe".

I can't see how the contents of these texts would undermine his credibility. The case against his attackers must have fallen apart for other reasons. This is all part of the plan. The prosecutor is feeding to the media anything they can find that would put Tensing in a negative light. They are doing everything they can to demonize him (same thing happened to Darren Wilson and is still happening to this day!).

 

[octobermoon]

His credibility in front of one judge got the whole case thrown out. I think that speaks to his character and truthfulness. And he was the victim! Don't see that often, if ever. imo

 

[Montjoy]

The prosecutor is feeding to the media anything they can find that would put Tensing in a negative light. They are doing everything they can to demonize him (same thing happened to Darren Wilson and is still happening to this day!).

Where does it say that the prosecutor fed this to the media?

From the article: "A spokesperson for Prosecutor Joe Deters' office also said because the case was expunged, they have no comment about it." So I doubt that they fed this to the media, and I if they were doing everything they could do to demonize him, they did not exploit this easy opportunity.

 

[i.b.nora]

So we can find the article again in the future, in case the little url becomes defunct:

Tensing Investigation: Credibility questioned in prior case
WKRC CBS Cincinnati
Updated: Tue, Aug 04 2015, 07:23 PM CINCINNATI (Rich Jaffe) --

“In 2010, before Ray Tensing became a police officer, he was involved in a fight just off the UC campus.

Tensing ended up as the victim in that fight with two other young men arrested and charged with assault. Local 12 News first reported about the case Friday, July 31.

When it came to trial, and Tensing took the witness stand, the judge quickly dismissed the case and now it is known why. There was a stack of text messages between then 20-year-old Tensing and a group of his friends. Wednesday, July 29, after a grand jury indicted Tensing for the murder of Sam DuBose, Hamilton County prosecutor Joe Deters said he never should have been a cop in the first place. This is very possibly why he said that.”

*

“While most of the messages were casual conversation, at issue were comments like the afternoon of the attack, a friend of Tensing’s sent him a message using racial slurs asking, “Were they (the people who attacked him) African Americans or homosexuals?” Tensing replied with the slang term for homosexuals.

The following day, he told another friend, “I wish I would of had my gun on me. Somebody would of left in a f....ing body bag."

And again, six days later he texted another friend saying, “I wish I had Mrs. 9 on me. Somebody wouldn't of been getting up off the sidewalk then."”​

Dum dah dum dum, dah!!!

Read More at: http://www.local12.com/news/feature...ibility-questioned-in-prior-case-180492.shtml

 

[KEVINinTO]

His credibility in front of one judge got the whole case thrown out. I think they speaks to his character and truthfulness. And he was the victim! Don't see that often, if ever. imo

According to the defense lawyer who represented Tensings attackers. His comments don't carry much weight. This is what I would expect a defense lawyer to say. Whatever the reason for the case being thrown out I doubt very much that text messages sent AFTER the attack had any bearing on the judges decision. Nowhere in these text msg does Tensing say that he provoked the attack.

 

[KEVINinTO]

For those who think that Tensings text msgs are very damaging I would like to know specifically what did he say in these text msgs that was so bad?

 

[KEVINinTO]

Up next on FOX - Megyn Kelly will be discussing "new" developments in this case.

 

[octobermoon]

According to the defense lawyer who represented Tensings attackers. His comments don't carry much weight. This is what I would expect a defense lawyer to say. Whatever the reason for the case being thrown out I doubt very much that text messages sent AFTER the attack had any bearing on the judges decision. Nowhere in these text msg does Tensing say that he provoked the attack.

Some were sent the day of the attack, but whatever it was, the judge found lacking. Since the case was dismissed maybe the judge's ruling is out there somewhere and the media will post it. Would be interesting to see what caused the judge to throw it out.

 

[octobermoon]

Itchy trigger finger over a bar fight. Friends who send racist/homophobic slurs which he returns in kind. Policing involves all of society not just white folks. If he tolerates or participates in that it shows he should have never been hired in the first place. imo