GUILTY OH - Steubenville Rape Case, 11 Aug 2012 #1

[believe09]

hollyjokers, I respect your perspective, but imo it doesnt matter whether she was partying or not. Hitting that note over and over again seems to distract from her heinous experience being gang raped. And filmed.

In this rape case, there are adults at the beginning of every single bottle of booze consumed that night. I am curious as to why the origin of the liquor has not been publicized far and wide. Surely that was part of the investigation.

 

[believe09]

On a related note, I have been doing a little research regarding another sexual assault crime in Utica NY. 5 men assaulted a teen for hours at a party. Parents contacted LE, which is what kicked off the investigation.

The refreshing part of the story for me was this:

Officials say a 36-year-old woman who lives at the home was charged with unlawfully dealing with a child for hosting the party and providing alcohol to underage guests.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/1...home-host-also/?intcmp=obinsite#ixzz2IMUrT7DH

 

[Steely Dan]

A friend of mine who went to college in Central New York was raped. The guy admitted in court that he liked hurting women. Before she called the police she cried for ten hours and that was used against her. Why didn't she call sooner?

I can't remember the exact sentence the guy received, but I do know that it didn't include any jail time. He had to do X amount of community service and pay a $250 fine or something like that.

She was shocked at the sentence and said if she had to do it again knowing what she knows now, she wouldn't have done anything. I told her that she was brave and while he may have gotten a slap on the wrist this time, his testimony in this trial may be allowed into the next one. Therefore he may get a better sentence next time.

She told me more than once; "I know it's kinda my fault for putting myself in that situation." (She never expanded on that and I never asked. It doesn't matter.) Every time she'd say that I'd make her look me in the eyes and I'd tell her it wasn't her fault for ANY reason.

 

[lonetraveler]

hollyjokers, I respect your perspective, but imo it doesnt matter whether she was partying or not. Hitting that note over and over again seems to distract from her heinous experience being gang raped. And filmed.

In this rape case, there are adults at the beginning of every single bottle of booze consumed that night. I am curious as to why the origin of the liquor has not been publicized far and wide. Surely that was part of the investigation.

And....there was an adult who actually saw the condition of the girl and they were told to leave the party. This was reported to be when the girl had to be carried like a trussed hog away from the party. I'm wondering why the hell the "adult" didn't do something to help the girl, even calling her parents would have been the decent thing to do. This "parent" was most likely hosting the drinking party. IMO.

 

[Steely Dan]

And....there was an adult who actually saw the condition of the girl and they were told to leave the party. This was reported to be when the girl had to be carried like a trussed hog away from the party. I'm wondering why the hell the "adult" didn't do something to help the girl, even calling her parents would have been the decent thing to do. This "parent" was most likely hosting the drinking party. IMO.

If it can be proven that, that happened. Then that person should be :jail: for at least three years. JMO

 

[lonetraveler]

I love how we have to walk back from the victim being drunk assertion because sworn witness testimony is not as reliable as individual gut-feelings. Laughter.

Not sure how far removed some of you are from the partying years, Back when I was 16-19, drinking vodka would have been akin to drinking gasoline. My options were limited since I rarely had enough to buy a 4pk of wine coolers & have something left to tip the vagrant who bought it for me. But that is not the case today. Go take a gander at your local liquor store. Marshmallow, raspberry, caramel, whipped cream, watermelon...probably 40+ flavors of vodka that when dumped in the familiar round orange cooler of gatorade tastes better than any Boone's Farm & 3-4 times more potent. If we are to believe the victim was familiar at all these parties, but not a drinker, surely someone was deprived of their designated driver that night! I'm sure making a statement like that makes me a victim basher. Its called reality. Young girls and binge drinking is growing at such an alarming rate, the CDC is very concerned.

http://healthland.time.com/2013/01/10/chug-chug-chug-why-more-women-are-binge-drinking/

BBM: Then I wonder if it can be assumed that rape has also increased at an alarming rate as well? I wonder if it had been a young male raped and filmed if he would be held responsible for what happened to him because he may have been drinking at the time?

 

[MyBelle]

I remember the first time I got really drunk. Or, more precisely, I don't remember it. All I had were brief flashes of recollections (three moments of about 5-10 seconds each), but most of the night was a complete blank.

You don't need to be drugged for that to happen, if you have enough alcohol fast enough with the right physiology you enter a state of "walking blackout" where you still do stuff, walk, talk and all those sorts of things, but the next day know very little about it. You become very primeval in your behaviour because you are operating with your subconcious only.

.

I certainly have never met any female young woman who wants even subconsciously to have constant intercourse with different men. And I certainly have never met a man who is capable of having constant intercourse with the same woman. I also don't know any man who willingly shares a partner he cares about with other man. The gang mentality is the problem here, not the degree of drunkeness of the victim.

Our criminal justice system doesn't give either gender a free pass for committing crime just because one was drunk. Rape is a crime just as drunken driving is a crime. Being drunk isn't an excuse.


JMO

 

[lonetraveler]

I've asked this before, but I don't think you really answered. (Apologies if you did and I missed it) What source are you taking the 'facts' from?

Because we've seen the picture of her being carried like this, and heard reports about her being totally out of it to fully unconscious from many witnesses, and also in the court transcripts. Several of the boys at the party tweeted about her being urinated on, and they talk about it in the video. They recount it in the first person.

So are the facts that this didn't happen because they changed their story? Because this wasn't mentioned in their court testimony? Are there other witnesses who can refute this?

One of the confusing things about this case is that it's not even "he said, she said", it's "he said, he said (later)". I hope that the truth comes out in court, but I've got to say, I'm inclined to believe the stories the witnesses and accused told before they knew anyone was watching or that there would be consequences to their actions. I don't see any clear cut factual account of the evening from any one source. The best we can do is piece together the evidence that is out there (for now).

I totally agree with you. I'm inclined to believe the tweets, photos and accounts of some of the participants and witnesses of what happened that night prior to them being told to wipe out their texts and photos and tweets. It's like, do I now believe their "polished" testimony or what my lying eyes have seen? KWIM?

 

[Steely Dan]

.

I certainly have never met any female young woman who wants even subconsciously to have constant intercourse with different men. And I certainly have never met a man who is capable of having constant intercourse with the same woman. I also don't know any man who willingly shares a partner he cares about with other man. The gang mentality is the problem here, not the degree of drunkeness of the victim.

Our criminal justice system doesn't give either gender a free pass for committing crime just because one was drunk. Rape is a crime just as drunken driving is a crime. Being drunk isn't an excuse.


JMO

BBM

What do you mean by that?

 

[hollyjokers]

BBM: Then I wonder if it can be assumed that rape has also increased at an alarming rate as well? I wonder if it had been a young male raped and filmed if he would be held responsible for what happened to him because he may have been drinking at the time?

I believe the young lady who did the Keg Queens photography book addressed the issue that girls are doing this type of drinking so often that rapes or assaults are not being reported at all. They wake up with no clear recollection of what they did & convince themselves it was a mutual "hook-up."

 

[AbbeyR]

<modsnip> I don't think these arguments are debate-worthy, but I will leave you with a few (obvious) points:

* It doesn't matter if a victim was drunk, or what she drank. If she did not consent, or did not have the ability to consent, it is rape

* Someone who is unconscious and does not respond is not "sleeping"

* Sex with someone who is unconscious is rape

* The description of gang rape is not "locker room talk"

* It's "sexual assault" not "being interfered with"

* Rape is a crime, not a "bad decision"

* Awkward 'lulz' at the expense of a sixteen-year-old rape victim are not funny.

Have a nice weekend, all!

 

[lonetraveler]

BBM

What do you mean by that?

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh: Yep, I thought, "What did she just say?" I must say that I have and do know a man who can constantly have intercourse with a woman.

LOL, :blushing:

 

[believe09]

I really don't want to engage with the rape apologists anymore as I don't think these arguments are debate-worthy, but I will leave you with a few (obvious) points:

* It doesn't matter if a victim was drunk, or what she drank. If she did not consent, or did not have the ability to consent, it is rape

* Someone who is unconscious and does not respond is not "sleeping"

* Sex with someone who is unconscious is rape

* The description of gang rape is not "locker room talk"

* It's "sexual assault" not "being interfered with"

* Rape is a crime, not a "bad decision"

* Awkward 'lulz' at the expense of a sixteen-year-old rape victim are not funny.

Have a nice weekend, all!

:bow:

 

[Steely Dan]

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh: Yep, I thought, "What did she just say?" I must say that I have and do know a man who can constantly have intercourse with a woman.

LOL, :blushing:

Everytime I look in the mirror I can too!

I really don't want to engage with the rape apologists anymore as I don't think these arguments are debate-worthy, but I will leave you with a few (obvious) points:

* It doesn't matter if a victim was drunk, or what she drank. If she did not consent, or did not have the ability to consent, it is rape

* Someone who is unconscious and does not respond is not "sleeping"

* Sex with someone who is unconscious is rape

* The description of gang rape is not "locker room talk"

* It's "sexual assault" not "being interfered with"

* Rape is a crime, not a "bad decision"

* Awkward 'lulz' at the expense of a sixteen-year-old rape victim are not funny.

Have a nice weekend, all!

:goodpost:

 

[wanttohelp]

There is a post from Holljokers I have been looking forever now to find and cant. Maybe someone cane point me to it. Its the post where she breaksdown her belief of the events that occurred. In the post she describes at one party someone said anyone not staying the night needed to leave. Where is that post? Was it deleted?

 

[JBean]

There is a post from Holljokers I have been looking forever now to find and cant. Maybe someone cane point me to it. Its the post where she breaksdown her belief of the events that occurred. In the post she describes at one party someone said anyone not staying the night needed to leave. Where is that post? Was it deleted?

there were no links to the information. If she has some time, Holly is going to locate the links so I can insert them and republish her post. The information was taken from various transcripts but when info is stated as fact we have to be able to see the source in it's entirety.

 

[Lois Lane]

there were no links to the information. If she has some time, Holly is going to locate the links so I can insert them and republish her post. The information was taken from various transcripts but when info is stated as fact we have to be able to see the source in it's entirety.

I missed seeing the original post, but I've been familiarizing myself with excerpted portions of the probable cause hearing that are posted online by a blogger.

I'm not clear as to which blogs we can link to and which we cannot, so my apologies in advance if the following links are not allowed.

The links are to the blogger's entry regarding the sequence of parties on the night in question.

http://stranahaninexile.wordpress.c...heck-where-the-alleged-assaults-occurred-wip/

http://stranahaninexile.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/jake-bye.png

FWIW, I have no reason to believe that the excerpted portions of the transcripts are anything other than accurate excerpts. In other words, I have no reason to think they have been altered.

At the same time, IMO, the excerpts are not the transcript in its entirety.

More of my opinion is that the excerpts have provided me with better clarity as to some of the facts of this case.

 

[lonetraveler]

Everytime I look in the mirror I can too!



:goodpost:

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[human]

I missed seeing the original post, but I've been familiarizing myself with excerpted portions of the probable cause hearing that are posted online by a blogger.

I'm not clear as to which blogs we can link to and which we cannot, so my apologies in advance if the following links are not allowed.

The links are to the blogger's entry regarding the sequence of parties on the night in question.

http://stranahaninexile.wordpress.c...heck-where-the-alleged-assaults-occurred-wip/

http://stranahaninexile.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/jake-bye.png

FWIW, I have no reason to believe that the excerpted portions of the transcripts are anything other than accurate excerpts. In other words, I have no reason to think they have been altered.

At the same time, IMO, the excerpts are not the transcript in its entirety.

More of my opinion is that the excerpts have provided me with better clarity as to some of the facts of this case.

So some other parent, a mother, saw these kids.

Why are no adults being called on the carpet for this? Where is the resposibility?

 

[lonetraveler]

FYI, Phil McGraw isnt responsible for any of the information disseminated on his show. It is considered "entertainment". I proofed one of his contracts once for the family of a missing person-he states explicitly that, for example, any advice he gives you during taping should be vetted by a licensed physician. I kid you not.

You can take the info or leave it-I wont post the contract because of the information regarding the case contained within it.

It was eye opening for me, to be honest. But I digress.

Well, it would have been nice if Dr Phil brought some attention to the case in a way that didnt minimize the experience of the rape victim. Normally I believe that there is no such thing as bad publicity, but I am on the fence about the show.

As to Jill-I think it is very important to air the mob mentality that led to such a disgusting act-the threat leading to the lock down. My two cents.

I had recorded the Dr. Phil episode and watched it this morning. I'm glad that I took my Blood pressure pill prior to watching. I literally thought about taking course grit sandpaper and scrubbing Dr. Phil's head with it. He did state at the beginning of the episode that he played football all his life and that is how he got to attend college. That explains a lot of his view about these wonderful boys "misbehaving". He obviously thinks that this is just some boys horse playing. Talks about how he couldn't find a single person in Steubenville who was not wanting justice for the girl. REALLY? At the end he hopes that these young men would not have to be burdened all their lives over one night of making a bad decision.

I must say that this is one of the most disgusting Dr. Phil episodes I've ever watched. He should be totally ashamed of himself. JMO and in my words of my interpretation of this show.