LisaB
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I mentioned this weeks ago, (Message #241 in this thread) and wondered if he might also be wise to extricate himself from these proceedings. To reiterate:
GUILTY OH - Steubenville Rape Case, 11 Aug 2012 #1
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I mentioned this weeks ago, (Message #241 in this thread) and wondered if he might also be wise to extricate himself from these proceedings. To reiterate:
LisaB
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BBM
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong please. I thought since this was juvenile court that judge was the prosecution. If that's true the judge has or should have the right to review ALL potential evidence like a prosecutor would. If there is a prosecutor they should at least try to get the video admitted, JMO.
The judge is the judge. There is a DA to prosecute, and private attorneys or PD for the accused. The judge is supposed to be a neutral party who is to listen to all the evidence presented and reach an unbiased conclusion.
LisaB
Well-Known Member
The judge will not view the video (which the defense could claim was inflammatory) unless and until it is admitted as evidence. I presume this is similar to the notion of jury members avoiding media about a case they are hearing, or discussion with family or friends who might influence their opinion with material NOT introduced. Of course, if it IS introduced, the judge WOULD have to watch it.
hollyjokers
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How was this shared 3 months in advance?
From Twitter (posted about 2:30pm PST 4/5/13)
Eric Minor ‏@EricWTOV9
USAG Holder speaks on Steubenville teen rape case, Live at Five. @WTOV91
That was a typo-- Thanks for catching it HollyJokers
2/5/13 is the correct date for that tweet. I don't know how to do Twitter screen caps. I still haven't seen any follow-up articles or coverage on this tweet.
Steely Dan
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Isn't the trial set for 2/13/2013?
The trial was continued until March 13 and is expected to last two days: http://www.wtov9.com/news/news/trial-continued-teens-charged-steubenville-rape-ca/nT96J/
hollyjokers
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No problem, Eric. The date jumped out at me and my first thought it was a European date, then I realized that wasn't right either. I usually use tapatalk on my phone so I can't do much of the copy/pasty stuff either.
One of the things that has bugged me about this case, and reason why I have not swallowed the party line is the all-out attempted crucification of Jane Hanlin & her family. If she handled the case unethically, show some proof. None has ever been offered, and instead, further attempts to smear her are made by those saying she hosted an alcohol-fueled teenage party where a 15 (some people want to make victim younger than she is) - 16 year old was violated in indescribable ways. And Jane Hanlin's star-athlete son, of course, was among those raping this poor girl. What are the odds of ALL of those things occurring in real life? It just sounds like bad fiction, and has always smelled like somebody with an agenda was behind many of these claims of Steubenville corruption & cover-up. Occ Steub, aka Frankie Francis, has already been revealed to be a multi-convicted drug felon with a longstanding history with both Jason and Jane Hanlin. And now it comes to light that Brandon DiMichael, aka AnarchistOH and half-brother to Alex Goddard, also likes to use & distribute the puff. Jason Hanlin, we meet again!
I have come to the conclusion that majority of the kids, and that's pretty much what they are, in Anonymous are decent people who take on causes with mostly good intentions, but in this case, they have been grievously deceived by this group of low-life pretenders/criminals who feigned to care about the victim. In actuality, they have no empathy for her, as displayed by the callous way they published an unredacted transcript and made no apologies for it. Yes, media people have had it, and any one of us as individuals could go buy our own copy, but a case involving underage victims, particularly sex crimes, should never be distributed on the web.
I think the girl was sexually assaulted that night by two people. The widely distributed picture shows a drunk girl passed out. From what I've seen it is fairly common practice for the younger people these days to take pictures like that to embarrass their friends. I'm inclined to believe that, if it were a boy in that condition, far worse things would have been done to him for the sake of the picture. I don't think any of the kids at the first two parties had any serious thoughts that the girl would be raped when she departed. Their main concern would have been getting an obviously impaired person away from the notice of Mrs. H. Three boys did witness something, documented something, & shared that information with others after the fact. All three witnesses seem to recognize on some level what was going on was wrong, and when a half-hearted attempt to stop it went rebuffed, ALL fled the scene. Based on a snippet of testimony from the transcript I think one may have even left to get a girl to intervene in the situation. There is no excuse for the brutish, morally reprehensible behavior of those through video, tweets, etc., afterwards, but as it's been said time and again, it was not criminal behavior.
I think the issue that is truly being swept under the rug here, is that we have a serious underage drinking problem going on. Some parents will brush it off b/c we've all chugged a few beers or sipped wine coolers in high school, but the new designer liquors are another animal entirely, and people just do not recognize the dangers. Just my 50c worth.
One of the things that has bugged me about this case, and reason why I have not swallowed the party line is the all-out attempted crucification of Jane Hanlin & her family. If she handled the case unethically, show some proof. None has ever been offered, and instead, further attempts to smear her are made by those saying she hosted an alcohol-fueled teenage party where a 15 (some people want to make victim younger than she is) - 16 year old was violated in indescribable ways. And Jane Hanlin's star-athlete son, of course, was among those raping this poor girl. What are the odds of ALL of those things occurring in real life? It just sounds like bad fiction, and has always smelled like somebody with an agenda was behind many of these claims of Steubenville corruption & cover-up. Occ Steub, aka Frankie Francis, has already been revealed to be a multi-convicted drug felon with a longstanding history with both Jason and Jane Hanlin. And now it comes to light that Brandon DiMichael, aka AnarchistOH and half-brother to Alex Goddard, also likes to use & distribute the puff. Jason Hanlin, we meet again!
I have come to the conclusion that majority of the kids, and that's pretty much what they are, in Anonymous are decent people who take on causes with mostly good intentions, but in this case, they have been grievously deceived by this group of low-life pretenders/criminals who feigned to care about the victim. In actuality, they have no empathy for her, as displayed by the callous way they published an unredacted transcript and made no apologies for it. Yes, media people have had it, and any one of us as individuals could go buy our own copy, but a case involving underage victims, particularly sex crimes, should never be distributed on the web.
I think the girl was sexually assaulted that night by two people. The widely distributed picture shows a drunk girl passed out. From what I've seen it is fairly common practice for the younger people these days to take pictures like that to embarrass their friends. I'm inclined to believe that, if it were a boy in that condition, far worse things would have been done to him for the sake of the picture. I don't think any of the kids at the first two parties had any serious thoughts that the girl would be raped when she departed. Their main concern would have been getting an obviously impaired person away from the notice of Mrs. H. Three boys did witness something, documented something, & shared that information with others after the fact. All three witnesses seem to recognize on some level what was going on was wrong, and when a half-hearted attempt to stop it went rebuffed, ALL fled the scene. Based on a snippet of testimony from the transcript I think one may have even left to get a girl to intervene in the situation. There is no excuse for the brutish, morally reprehensible behavior of those through video, tweets, etc., afterwards, but as it's been said time and again, it was not criminal behavior.
I think the issue that is truly being swept under the rug here, is that we have a serious underage drinking problem going on. Some parents will brush it off b/c we've all chugged a few beers or sipped wine coolers in high school, but the new designer liquors are another animal entirely, and people just do not recognize the dangers. Just my 50c worth.
rossva
George Zimmerman: Innocent until proven guilty.
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I believe Linda7NJ meant Websleuths when she used the word "here".
Originally Posted by Linda7NJ
Presumption of innocence is for the jury and only the jury. It doesn't apply here.
Originally Posted by Linda7NJ
Presumption of innocence is for the jury and only the jury. It doesn't apply here.
Hollyjokers, I dont think anyone is saying there is proof that Hanlin acted unethically, its suspicion based on her connections to these kids (including her son) and what timeline is usually seen in cases like this when totally objective officials are involved. As I said early on, just the appearance of impropriety should have led her to recuse herself immediately. Lots of what is being said can't be 'proved', it is opinion or reactions to seeing that timeline, hearing them bend the truth and seeing screenshots of what was put online by these kids. I agree teenage drinking is obviously a problem here, but what is more shocking to most, IMO, is the lack of any concern for JD by way too many. Not a single one of them called the police, or reported anything to their parents. Most of the names weve seen may not have actually witnessed the rape, but just count the number of kids in MN video and the other names we see connected to the tweets. Way too many, and way too little done for the girl.
Now, for what we agree on. I spent a little time clicking on links connected to some of the various players on both sides of this yesterday. I didnt see the bit about Goddards brother I may have gotten disgusted and signed off by the time that was put out there - but I saw enough to realize that there are a *lot* of agendas being played out here, and each as guilty of the other at using this case for their own purposes. Some of these grudge matches go back years and years. I think Im going to take the advice of that Harold Star guy and just ignore everyone (except you guys!) and wait for the trial. Too many people interested in getting the other guy here, and all theyre doing is distracting people from the real issues.
Now, for what we agree on. I spent a little time clicking on links connected to some of the various players on both sides of this yesterday. I didnt see the bit about Goddards brother I may have gotten disgusted and signed off by the time that was put out there - but I saw enough to realize that there are a *lot* of agendas being played out here, and each as guilty of the other at using this case for their own purposes. Some of these grudge matches go back years and years. I think Im going to take the advice of that Harold Star guy and just ignore everyone (except you guys!) and wait for the trial. Too many people interested in getting the other guy here, and all theyre doing is distracting people from the real issues.
Can you talk more about what level you think the underage drinking has been swept under the rug/brushed off? I have my own concerns on this issue and would appreciate hearing your views. I realize you may have already outlined them in the many pages of this thread, but I don't get the chance to read much before page 20, which is where I picked it up.
I am concerned about how this story has been reported in various media outlets: particularly in regards to how headlines are written, rumors are presented as facts (that would be allegations with no source, no named accountable source or no public documents to back them up), and names/dates/events are just plain wrong.
Recently, atop a story written by Katie M Baker, Jezebel published the headline "There Might Be a Way to Prosecute the Leader of the Steubenville Rape Crew," yet the petition linked to sponsored by the Ohio National Organization for Women (https://www.change.org/petitions/st...chael-nodianos-with-failure-to-report-a-crime) never uses the term "Rape Crew" or claims that M.C.N. is the leader of any group. When I tried to learn just what type of a publication Jezebel is, I found a video at http://jezebel.com/about/ that reported Jezebel to be "part of Gawker media" and described it as a, "general interest women's website." While it doesn't look like Jezebel is touting itself as hard-news, perhaps the web-surfing public thinks it is.
This article was directly shared by headline on Twitter by at least 55 different users, mostly individuals, but also by a few organizations including the New York State Coalition Against Sexual Assault (2,182 followers), the Progressive Congress News (2,970 followers) and the Henderson, Nevada Democratic Club (1,437 followers). I imagine that the followers of these groups and people might think that Jezebel is a news publication, especially given the #1 search return for ~rape crew leader~ on news.google.com is the Jezebel story. I do not find any factual inaccuracies in the story at Jezebel, only in the headline, although Baker does use a derogatory expletive to describe M.C.N. by name, which just isn't newsy at all.
This specific story with headline was tweeted and retweeted across Twitter, posted on Facebook and Google+, and shared wherever else people like to share information online, perpetuating the impression that M.C.N. is the leader of a 'Rape Crew' without in any way defining or substantiating that claim. I don't condone or defend M.C.N.'s behavior as evidenced via his original Twitter profile activity and a youTube video that may have been posted without his consent by E.W. I do find this to be an example of irresponsible journalism (tempted to use that with quotes, but I don't mean to belittle, just can't tell if Jezebel is meant to be news) which muddles the public's perception/awareness of the Steubenville rape case and fuels claims that there is a mainstream media conspiracy to conflate slander and libel with the facts of this case in order to meet various assumed anti-Steubenville agendas.
The Jezebel story is a minute example of the level at which misinformation truly has been disseminated by news outlets regarding this case. I don't think, however, that this means the media has "got it all wrong." Nor do I think that only that which has been printed represents the whole truth of the night in question and the reaction to it that unfolded over the following weeks. If you have found a news outlet that has been able to stick to the facts in it's coverage of this case, could you please reply to this post with a link? I've seen the Cleveland Plain Dealer referenced as reliable and recall reading some fact-based reporting in the Herald Star.
Recently, atop a story written by Katie M Baker, Jezebel published the headline "There Might Be a Way to Prosecute the Leader of the Steubenville Rape Crew," yet the petition linked to sponsored by the Ohio National Organization for Women (https://www.change.org/petitions/st...chael-nodianos-with-failure-to-report-a-crime) never uses the term "Rape Crew" or claims that M.C.N. is the leader of any group. When I tried to learn just what type of a publication Jezebel is, I found a video at http://jezebel.com/about/ that reported Jezebel to be "part of Gawker media" and described it as a, "general interest women's website." While it doesn't look like Jezebel is touting itself as hard-news, perhaps the web-surfing public thinks it is.
This article was directly shared by headline on Twitter by at least 55 different users, mostly individuals, but also by a few organizations including the New York State Coalition Against Sexual Assault (2,182 followers), the Progressive Congress News (2,970 followers) and the Henderson, Nevada Democratic Club (1,437 followers). I imagine that the followers of these groups and people might think that Jezebel is a news publication, especially given the #1 search return for ~rape crew leader~ on news.google.com is the Jezebel story. I do not find any factual inaccuracies in the story at Jezebel, only in the headline, although Baker does use a derogatory expletive to describe M.C.N. by name, which just isn't newsy at all.
This specific story with headline was tweeted and retweeted across Twitter, posted on Facebook and Google+, and shared wherever else people like to share information online, perpetuating the impression that M.C.N. is the leader of a 'Rape Crew' without in any way defining or substantiating that claim. I don't condone or defend M.C.N.'s behavior as evidenced via his original Twitter profile activity and a youTube video that may have been posted without his consent by E.W. I do find this to be an example of irresponsible journalism (tempted to use that with quotes, but I don't mean to belittle, just can't tell if Jezebel is meant to be news) which muddles the public's perception/awareness of the Steubenville rape case and fuels claims that there is a mainstream media conspiracy to conflate slander and libel with the facts of this case in order to meet various assumed anti-Steubenville agendas.
The Jezebel story is a minute example of the level at which misinformation truly has been disseminated by news outlets regarding this case. I don't think, however, that this means the media has "got it all wrong." Nor do I think that only that which has been printed represents the whole truth of the night in question and the reaction to it that unfolded over the following weeks. If you have found a news outlet that has been able to stick to the facts in it's coverage of this case, could you please reply to this post with a link? I've seen the Cleveland Plain Dealer referenced as reliable and recall reading some fact-based reporting in the Herald Star.
hollyjokers
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I just think people see it as no big deal, and it actually is a big deal. I.B.Nora linked an article several pages back. (I'm honestly too beat to look it up or I would)The number of deaths of people under 25 due to alcohol toxicity is staggering, and by the same token, sexual assaults, question-mark pregnancies, & STD's are also on the upswing. I don't have any clue what the solution would be. I had a very frank discussion with my daughter when she was getting ready to leave for college - I feel fortunate not to have had to do it earlier, but I am the proud parent of two big dorks
I just kind of gave her a guesstimate of how much alcohol her body could tolerate, without being a puking mess, an easy target for sexual assault, or worse. Not saying that is the right way to handle it for everyone, but once she is out from under my roof, there's not much point to forbidding it. She has handled herself pretty well, I think. She did say initially she would not drink, but that didn't hold for long. But she does say there are frequently girls passed out wherever they fall. And they are referred to as corpses. This is how I know about the orange cooler of gatorade & flavored vodka. Cheap & potent. 
I took this at the grocery story the other day: swedish fish, cotton candy, chocolate chip cookie dough, etc, etc, etc, Are we to believe these are solely marketed for adults?
hollyjokers
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Jezebel & Atlantic Wire are the two most retweeted news sources on the case, IMO. AW was pulling the majority of their info straight from the local leaks page.
I've not found anything totally unbiased. At first I was okay with PD coverage, but someone pointed out it was the first of the MSM to count Goddard as a legitimate source.
I've not found anything totally unbiased. At first I was okay with PD coverage, but someone pointed out it was the first of the MSM to count Goddard as a legitimate source.
hollyjokers
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It wasn't just some idle speculation about the Hanlin/Keenan family. They've been slung through the mud, harassed, multiple petitions circulated to have her disbarred, her son's college plans meddled with, not to mention his reputation as a leader of the "rape crew". These are real people, not some SIMs characters to manipulate & play around with. That goes for JD, as well. Her attorney has repeatedly said she is frightened by the publicity & exposure. The Fame-mongers say, "oh, she loves it!" Do you really believe that?
Steely Dan
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I just think people see it as no big deal, and it actually is a big deal. I.B.Nora linked an article several pages back. (I'm honestly too beat to look it up or I would)The number of deaths of people under 25 due to alcohol toxicity is staggering, and by the same token, sexual assaults, question-mark pregnancies, & STD's are also on the upswing. I don't have any clue what the solution would be. I had a very frank discussion with my daughter when she was getting ready to leave for college - I feel fortunate not to have had to do it earlier, but I am the proud parent of two big dorks
I took this at the grocery story the other day: swedish fish, cotton candy, chocolate chip cookie dough, etc, etc, etc, Are we to believe these are solely marketed for adults?
Also, tell her to only drink what she pours herself and to keep it with her and keep an eye on it at all times. If she sets it down and walks away she needs to get a new cup and drink. JMO
hollyjokers
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Yes, we did talk about that too, but thanks Steely.
Interview with Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine by The Intelligencer/Wheeling News-Register from February 10, 2013: http://www.theintelligencer.net/pag...hio-Attorney-General-Mike-DeWine.html?nav=515
Original source, "The following is a sit-down question-and-answer interview with Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine conducted by John McCabe of Ogden Newspapers."
Original source, "The following is a sit-down question-and-answer interview with Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine conducted by John McCabe of Ogden Newspapers."
Thanks for following up on this. As it relates to the Steubenville case, I've seen that in general it would appear that there were no direct legal consequences for the underage drinking that many have readily admitted to.
I think that Bellardine as a volunteer coach and assumed adult role-model had a responsibility to contact family members and the police as appropriate when he discovered underage drinking at his house.
In our small community, a homecoming party hosted by an adult/parent with underage drinking resulted in mandatory suspensions (in-school) for all of the students in attendance, and an end of seasonal play for the football players present. Even though the team was heading for the state championships. I don't know what the consequences were for the adult host. The team still went on to place well without the delinquent drinkers. Perhaps a boon for the community, because it gave other students a chance to shine and showed that inappropriate behavior has enforceable consequences, even if it means one less community accolade such as a championship trophy.
In some states, Coach Bellardine would be a mandated reporter regarding any endangerment of a child, especially something as serious as potential alcohol poisoning. Failure to report would be a misdemeanor infraction. Once again, where I live, if a mandated reporter had witnessed underage drinking without reporting and ensuring that the children made it home safely, and the community found out as it did in Steubenville, that would be the end of that person's participation with that school district, and possibly their career, especially if they did not have the legal protection of the teacher's labor union. Parents would demand it.
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