OH - Three students killed in Chardon High School shooting, 27 Feb 2012

[Spice]

I agree with the metal detectors Owl, they should be in all schools. It is so very sad to me that this is what it has come to for our children and teachers. What is going on that they have to worry about dying while at school? Things should not be this way and it is very disheartening. Gun control is a joke, just look at all of the loopholes and ridiculousness that enabled so many school shooters to access the guns that they shot their peers and teachers with. Unfortunately, I do not see that changing. Some in this country will never budge no matter how many times we witness these tragedies. Gun control is not the only answer. Access to mental health care, prescriptions, counseling, and family therapy is essential. More awareness so that parents not only have the resources to help their kids but actually recognize when they need professional interventions. Bullying must be dealt with in an effective way and not on a surface level. When it is happening to kids it occurs on a 24/7 time basis now with the addition of cyber bulling. Teaching our children to respect others, to have self respect, and to have the confidence to stand up for others. Social media is a beast, I do not even know how we go about monitoring that.

Bottom line is if we as a country refuse to close the loopholes that exist in gun control then we must protect our children and teachers by installing metal detectors. We as a country spend insane amounts of money on other things, surely state and federal government can reach in its purse and protect our schools. Its so sad.

 

[Inspector Gidget]

Well out state lottery money does go to education BUT (and this is the BIG ONE that nobody paid any attention to when they passed it) for every dollar that the lottery contributes then the State can "pull that dollar" out of education and put it somewhere else. So, in a nutshell, the lottery isn't supplementing it is "replacing".

There are lots of "places" that any school district can "pull money from". Most districts have this policy of purchasing from approved vendors. An example of mine was for a classroom set (box) of Crayola markers. These are big boxes of 16 colors with each color having like 12 markers. There is an online company - Classroom Direct - that sells these boxes for $25.00 (not exact - just using that amount as example) but I wasn't allowed to purchase my box through them because they weren't on the approved vendor list - the approved vendor for those boxes charged the district like $55.00 per box.

Construction and building accounts for the districts are also unusually large and could be revamped with more money going into classrooms.

Textbook adoptions also have a whole lot of "fluff" and the districts spend millions on those.

Metal detectors and cameras are one time expenses. Once they are in - that's it.

There is also a big, pink elephant in the room when it comes to funding education - but I won't go into that. Although, here in my neck of the woods, it is costing us taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars each year.

My district's yearly budget is $5 billion. Yep, FIVE BILLION PER YEAR. That is outrageous. Just one county in just one state. Yet our kids are failing every year - go figger.

This sounds like the way our government spends money.Changes need to occur with the way the school system handles their funds.

 

[bellyup]

Ok - we're getting a little O/T with all this Columbine stuff.

Let's get back to this case.

Saw this after I posted my response. Ooops.

I think the bottom line is that peers need to be more alert, information and feel protected enough to report incidents (whether that is bullying, red flags, loners, etc.). That would go a LONG way in preventing these things from happening.

 

[Spice]

Brooks, himself reported that they were both victims of social isolation, being outcast, and being bullied. With VIDEO tape evidence of the shooters being hit by jocks. Brooks says they were the BOTTOM two of the entire school. They were the "losers of the losers". Another girl (unknown) reports she was slammed into a locker for talking to Eric.

Columbine - Brooks Brown describes bullying at Columbine - YouTube
bullying at Columbine High School - YouTube


Nathan Vanderau .... ""A lot of the tension in the school came from the class above us. There were people fearful of walking by a table where you knew you didn't belong, stuff like that. Certain groups certainly got preferential treatment across the board. I caught the tail end of one really horrible incident, and I know Dylan told his mother that it was the worst day of his life."

That incident, according to Laughlin, involved seniors pelting Klebold with "ketchup-covered tampons" in the commons. It is popularly known as "the ketchup incident" considered to be the worst bullying incident Eric and Dylan are known to have suffered except for when a cup of feces was thrown at them. "


The point I was arguing is the claim that the two were not bullied. There is no question and hundreds of reports and witnesses that they WERE. I said I have no doubt that the pair dished out their own retailiation (prior to the shooting) but to say they weren't bullied just simply is not true. The school has a HISTORY of bad bullying incidents.

Bullying at Columbine High was rampant, witnesses testified Monday
http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/shooting/1003col4.shtml

http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2011/oct/06/columbine-victim-spreads-anti-bullying-message-aft-ar-774498/
The code is backed up by stories, including the day she stepped in to stop two boys who were bullying a student named Adam who was developmentally delayed.

Recently, in which the parent claims her daughter acted out by hitting fellow students with a hammer after being bullied. Her claims weren't taken seriously (much like the Brooks' never were) http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...-teen-in-columbine-hammer-attack-was-bullied/

I could literally post HUNDREDS of articles that bullying played a role in the Columbine shootings. I'm not pointing at it as the CAUSE as I don't believe there is a single cause in any of these cases. However, to deny it was a FACTOR will hinder us in addressing the issue in the future.

Let's just agree to disagree, we both see it differently and I respect that you have a different opinion. Owl asked us to drop the columbine subject and I don't want to be disrespectful.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

This sounds like the way our government spends money.Changes need to occur with the way the school system handles their funds.

The schools ARE government. When Amanda Collette was shot here, I did some research on metal detectors. I even called and spoke with a rep for one company. Turned out it was the company that supplied Miami/Dade. He told me that Broward had inquired about them - but it was a few years BEFORE this shooting and he gave them a quote and never heard back.

We have like 16 (? give or take) high schools here. It would have cost approx $600,000. to equip all the high schools with them. Here, that really isn't a whole lot of money (considering they are replacing old cafeterias at the rate of $1 million per cafe).

When I went to college and took my first education class, one of the very first things my prof said was:

Politics and Education don't mix and are opposite ends of the spectrum. Any given politican will spout all day long about how much he/she values the education system and dearly wants to fund it BUT an educated citizen is very dangerous to any politician.

IOW - Its in any politician's best interest to keep the masses stupid.

Make sense?

 

[bellyup]

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/lo...ect-caring-tj-lanes-family-releases-statement

"Some students called the Chardon High School shooting suspect caring, calm and polite, even in the moments just before shots were fired."

"A surveillance video shows Lane, 17, sat down at an empty table, reached into his bag and pulled out a .22-caliber handgun, according to a source who saw the video. He walked up to a group of students and, one by one, shot at least three in the backs of their heads. "


It really seems to me like this was specifically targeted to the students that were shot. No one is saying what the relationship was like between the shooter and the victims nor have I heard much about the victims, in general. I wonder if they were the "popular" kids or if this had a more specific motive (ie; these kids and he were arguing / one took his girlfriend as has been reported)

 

[wfgodot]

Students describe alleged Ohio gunman as 'very normal' (CNN International)

(CNN) -- T.J. Lane didn't belong to any particular clique in the schools he attended, fellow students said. Even those who knew described him as quiet, someone who was guarded, seemingly sad at times, but nice once you broke through the wall that he put up around himself.
---

Brief, fairly interesting take on T.J. Lane. The rest at link above.

 

[bellyup]

http://www.woio.com/category/211979/video-landing-page?clipId=6788263&autostart=true

Last post, time for bed, if I can sleep.

Fox reporting that they've confirmed the second death but they are not releasing the name until law enforcement does. Also reporting that the third victim listed as "critical" is near death. That all three were shot in the head (which supports the above comments about the shooting videos).

 

[Dr. Know?]

The schools ARE government. When Amanda Collette was shot here, I did some research on metal detectors. I even called and spoke with a rep for one company. Turned out it was the company that supplied Miami/Dade. He told me that Broward had inquired about them - but it was a few years BEFORE this shooting and he gave them a quote and never heard back.

We have like 16 (? give or take) high schools here. It would have cost approx $600,000. to equip all the high schools with them. Here, that really isn't a whole lot of money (considering they are replacing old cafeterias at the rate of $1 million per cafe).

When I went to college and took my first education class, one of the very first things my prof said was:

Politics and Education don't mix and are opposite ends of the spectrum. Any given politican will spout all day long about how much he/she values the education system and dearly wants to fund it BUT an educated citizen is very dangerous to any politician.

IOW - Its in any politician's best interest to keep the masses stupid.

Make sense?

Ah. After being raised by my mom a woman demorcratic president since birth, schools get the blunt end usually on many city/state/federal budgets, mental health care & LE. Our cities have been limited through an ecomomy that gosh I hope I never see it that bad again in my life or live through it again. But it's always schools, mental health & LE. jmo

 

[Dr. Know?]

Oh, better clarify, woman's democratic president of our local community, commitee. She met John Glen and I have the picture. ha ha. Not a president of the US. lol lol

 

[snowdaze]

Students describe alleged Ohio gunman as 'very normal' (CNN International)

Brief, fairly interesting take on T.J. Lane. The rest at link above.

Wow, scary are the comments below this article. One says, "if my kid were bullied, I'd let him take a gun to school too"

Seriously???

 

[wfgodot]

Wow, scary are the comments below this article. One says, "if my kid were bullied, I'd let him take a gun to school too"

Seriously???

Thanks for the reminder, I forgot to read the comments. Correcting that error now!

 

[MsFacetious]

http://www.woio.com/category/211979/video-landing-page?clipId=6788263&autostart=true

Last post, time for bed, if I can sleep.

Fox reporting that they've confirmed the second death but they are not releasing the name until law enforcement does. Also reporting that the third victim listed as "critical" is near death. That all three were shot in the head (which supports the above comments about the shooting videos).

So that means the one shot near the heart is still alive (in the back I think?)
So that one could go either way too... I hope we don't end up with 4 fatalities. lease:

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I wish the rumors would stop. They aren't helping.

Soledad O'Brien sitting in for Anderson Cooper tonight had a good report and it included an interview by Martin Savich with a young woman who is a friend of the alleged 'shooter'. It was made clear that she is not condoning what the shooter did, but she talked about him a little bit from her point of view and from her knowledge of him. She was very articulate and it was a fantastic interview. Much more valuable than a million tweets.

It was mentioned that he has an older brother who is in jail somewhere (and, in the Reuters article I read a bit ago and linked to, it mentioned his sister). I think it only barely touched on his father.

I am sure it will repeat, so watch for it in your area.

Martin Savidge was a local reporter in Cleveland here for years before he made the jump to national news....so as far as national news sources go, he has a better understanding of this community than most.

BTW, this is on WKYC's FB page:

"Folks we are aware that reports [sic] circulating about a second death from the Chardon shooting. However, we will not report such an event as fact until we have confirmation from the hospital or the family."

That was six hours ago.

The rumors of a second student appear to be about Russell King. He is also reportedly the son of Chardon mayor Phillip King.

There is a Facebook campaign going on asking people to wear red tomorrow to show solidarity with Chardon (red and black are the school colors.)

 

[katydid23]

In one of the articles linked upthread, there is a statement that the targeted kids were his close group of friends in middle school and early high school, but 'they drifted away.' And then we hear that one of the boys was the mayor's son.

SPECULATION ALERT: I think that perhaps the way that his own family fell apart, with the divorce and the court battles, and him being sent to his grandmothers, ---all of that turmoil contributed to him 'drifting away' from his old friends. And he may have felt very bitter and sad about them turning their backs, while still having intact,'happy' households.

 

[Inspector Gidget]

In one of the articles linked upthread, there is a statement that the targeted kids were his close group of friends in middle school and early high school, but 'they drifted away.' And then we hear that one of the boys was the mayor's son.

SPECULATION ALERT: I think that perhaps the way that his own family fell apart, with the divorce and the court battles, and him being sent to his grandmothers, ---all of that turmoil contributed to him 'drifting away' from his old friends. And he may have felt very bitter and sad about them turning their backs, while still having intact,'happy' households.

I do believe that he envied them because they had caring families and he had a dysfunctional one.I also think he became distraught as time went on and drove all of his friends away.Sitting at a table by himself says it all.

 

[MsFacetious]

Lawyer Bob Farinacci, speaking for Lane's family, said late Monday night that the 17-year-old was "extremely remorseful."

"Very, very scared and extremely remorseful," he told CNN affiliate WKYC.

"He is a very confused young man right now," Farinacci added.
"He's very confused. He is very upset. Um, he's very distraught...himself.
This is a very scary circumstance that I don't think he could have possibly even foreseen himself in the middle of."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/28/justice/ohio-school-shooting/index.html

 

[Inspector Gidget]

Lawyer Bob Farinacci, speaking for Lane's family, said late Monday night that the 17-year-old was "extremely remorseful."

"Very, very scared and extremely remorseful," he told CNN affiliate WKYC.

"He is a very confused young man right now," Farinacci added.
"He's very confused. He is very upset. Um, he's very distraught...himself.
This is a very scary circumstance that I don't think he could have possibly even foreseen himself in the middle of."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/28/justice/ohio-school-shooting/index.html

I don't think he should make a statement like that right now.That will not erase what has happened.I am sure this will anger many people.He is scared about spending the rest of his life behind bars and dealing with those inmates

 

[Inspector Gidget]

I hope they have him on suicide watch,I think he is at risk for it.

 

[~n/t~]

School has been canceled at all of the Chardon Local Schools on Tuesday. It is unclear if school will resume at any point this week. Bergant said only a few maintenance staff members, who will be needed to open the buildings, will be at work Tuesday.

“Stay home and spend some time reflecting on family. And I hope every parent, if you haven’t hugged or kissed your kid in the last couple days, take that time,” Bergant said.

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/lo...ef-counselors-available-to-students-and-staff


Sometimes we forget how important it is to hug our kids. Yes, even our teenagers. They may not like all that mushy stuff but deep down, they know how much we love them.