OH - Three students killed in Chardon High School shooting, 27 Feb 2012

[Spice]

No, I think Spice is saying we need to be identifying and treating these children. Or continue to pay the price, over and over and over...as evidenced all over this dang website. All these killers start out as unblameable children.

That is exactly what I am saying, thank you for understanding me. I am not excusing him. There must be consequences for what he has done.

 

[Spice]

IMO - At 17, you know right from wrong. He deserves LWOP. IMO. To me, there isn't one ounce of sympathy for him. I know that sounds harsh, but I listen to the parents of the victims and I can't muster any pity for this pre-meditated crime. 3 murders! 3 kids who had dreams, goals, futures! Nope, not one ounce. He made a big boy decision, should deal with the big boy consequences.

Since Columbine, schools have changed, awareness and preventative actions have been taken. But for the fact, this school had procedures in place, this would have been so much worse. We can't parent and police every child. Not everything is forseeable and preventable.

I do think we should learn from this and do whatever possible to stop these "kids" who kill children. SCHOOLS SHOULD BE A SAFE ZONE, but those days are over. Sad, but true.

<modsnip>. I said that we should try to understand the behavior not excuse the behavior. We need to understand why this keeps happening and take teenage depression seriously and not chalk them up as "monsters". I just don't look at things that black and white or concretely.

And I am sorry, but I do have sympathy for a 17 year old abused boy that just ruined the lives of so many and will never be able to take that back or give back the innocent lives he took. He ruined his own life as well. I have sympathy for ALL of the people involved especially the victims. But TJ is not one dimensional and with all due respect I will not apologize for feeling empathy toward him. He is a child, a child that his parents failed, and that we as a society, obviously, have failed as well. (Parens Patriae)Putting a child in general population of a prison with grown adult men two and three times his age is seriously questionable for a civilized society.

This shouldn't be happening yet it is; over and over and over again. And for some reason we are shocked every time instead of taking steps to truly understand and prevent it.

MOO.

 

[AngelWings444]

That is exactly what I am saying, thank you for understanding me. I am not excusing him. There must be consequences for what he has done.

Sorry. Maybe the word "excusing" wasn't quite right. Do you really think that any amount of time, no matter how long or short in jail will help this guy? Do you think he can ever become a productive citizen? IMO, he can't. He is far gone. Shooting 3 people in the back of the head, gone in the head. Beyond repair in my opinion. Also, he will be in prison for a very long time, around criminals, this alone won't get him "better."

I think our resources and energy should be put into the victims and their families.

 

[animlzrule]

They need to prosecute the owner of the gun too. If you insist on owning a gun then you need to be held responsible for the crimes permitted with that gun. I don't care if it was locked up or whatever other excuse they will have. By choosing to own a gun you put everyone else's children at risk. Whoever owned that gun has blood on their hands too.

 

[Spice]

Sorry. Maybe the word "excusing" wasn't quite right. Do you really think that any amount of time, no matter how long or short in jail will help this guy? Do you think he can ever become a productive citizen? IMO, he can't. He is far gone. Shooting 3 people in the back of the head, gone in the head. Beyond repair in my opinion. Also, he will be in prison for a very long time, around criminals, this alone won't get him "better."

I think our resources and energy should be put into the victims and their families.

I do not believe that TJ, obviously, has ever received the help he so sorely needed to begin with. Nor do I believe that he is beyond repair. If I thought that way, I wouldn't have a job or a career. People, ESPECIALLY children can and do get better and go on to become productive citizens when they receive long term, age appropriate, help. No one is a "throwaway."

Again, TJ must have serious consequences for what he has done. But to suggest that he is a simply a flawed throwaway is not something that I can get on board with. Many resilient children, who have committed crimes, violent and otherwise, go on to become productive members of society.

Our children and their actions are a reflection of our society and culture as a whole. They are not born to behave this way. They learn it. And they can unlearn it if we care enough to teach them. If we sit back and judge him, we learn nothing from this, and we may as well be judging ourselves.

MOO

 

[OneLove]

They need to prosecute the owner of the gun too. If you insist on owning a gun then you need to be held responsible for the crimes permitted with that gun. I don't care if it was locked up or whatever other excuse they will have. By choosing to own a gun you put everyone else's children at risk. Whoever owned that gun has blood on their hands too.

Okay......so, if your teenage neighbor breaks into your house and steals one of your kitchen knives and then stabs a student to death at school with it, we should prosecute YOU?

Same question concerning your vehicle (killing machine), your prescription medications, your nail gun, etc etc etc....

 

[AngelWings444]

<modsnip>. I said that we should try to understand the behavior not excuse the behavior. We need to understand why this keeps happening and take teenage depression seriously and not chalk them up as "monsters". I just don't look at things that black and white or concretely.

And I am sorry, but I do have sympathy for a 17 year old abused boy that just ruined the lives of so many and will never be able to take that back or give back the innocent lives he took. He ruined his own life as well. I have sympathy for ALL of the people involved especially the victims. But TJ is not one dimensional and with all due respect I will not apologize for feeling empathy toward him. He is a child, a child that his parents failed, and that we as a society, obviously, have failed as well. (Parens Patriae)Putting a child in general population of a prison with grown adult men two and three times his age is seriously questionable for a civilized society.

This shouldn't be happening yet it is; over and over and over again. And for some reason we are shocked every time instead of taking steps to truly understand and prevent it.

MOO.

Who said TJ was abused, depressed or anything else? Obviously, he has issues, he shot 5 kids! Some people said he was a very nice boy, some said quiet etc..many different accounts. We do not know what was going on in his head. I will wait for a doctor's report. I am not looking at things in black and white and I don't recall calling him a "monster." A murderer, yes! I said we need to learn from this and try to avoid another tragedy like this. But, you can't police and parent every single child.

I do understand what you are saying and I just disagree that all kids can be helped or saved. If that were true, we wouldn't have adults committing crimes either.

I think some of us are shocked this happens, because we can't understand why anyone could or would take a gun to school and open fire on children. We aren't shocked it happened, just can't believe it does happen. There are SO many resources and other options. TJ had grandparents, who looked like very nice people, they took him him, sat in court today for him! He had SO many other choices, he chose to kill.

I wish there was a magic want to understand and prevent such tragedies, but there isn't. I'm sure, since Columbine, many incidents have been stopped and prevented. This school did so much to minimize more deaths/injuries. They reacted and saved lives! TJ didn't attend this school, yet he shot the kids who did.

It happened, it can't be changed. The families deserve justice. The students deserve to feel safe. The coach and the rest of the staff deserve medals! TJ deserves to never see the light of day again.

JMO

 

[cece5300]

I do understand what you are saying and I just disagree that all kids can be helped or saved. If that were true, we wouldn't have adults committing crimes either.

Exactly. Take the Elizabeth Olten case. Wasn't her killer seeing a psychologist almost every day? Some people are just beyond help.

 

[AngelWings444]

Sigh...I wish this much energy was put into helping the victims and their families. The video of Danny's parents had me in tears. So senseless, tragic and sad. They will never have their son back, they will never heal, their lives will never be the same.

 

[passionflower]

for the victims!
http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10011473.html?tag=page
THEIR PICTURES AND STORIES

 

[Inspector Gidget]

I at one time thought all mental problems could be fixed with meds and therapy.I don't feel that way anymore.I think early intervention is the key here.IMO sociopaths can not be healed,they have little or no remorse and there have a tendency to hurt or harm others.I feel TJ is a sociopath and it would not be safe to have him out in the streets.What he did was not a snap,spur of the moment shooting.It was cold and calculated and planned.He stood up and shot all three in the head.That was meant to kill,not just harm them.Behind that calm and so called nice composure,is and evil monster.I can not have any sympathy for him.

 

[rabidstoat]

Teenagers don't have adult brains, true, but there are still some things they should unequivocally know are wrong. Shooting other kids in the back of the head at close range is one of those things.

I was a smart teenager. One day, a friend and I decided to go meet some older guys that were friends of her sister. We were 16 at the time. We ended up at the apartment of one of the guys. We thought we would be safe because we were "smart", and because my friend had a steak knife in her purse. In fact, when things got a little intense back in the bedroom with her and one of the guys, and he looked like he might not understand that "no" meant "no", she pulled the knife on him, and we left the apartment.

That was an incredibly stupid thing to do, all around. No one knew where we were, the guys were stronger than us, we didn't know them, and introducing a knife into the scene was just dumb. To our undeveloped teenage brains, though, it seemed to make sense at the time.

That's the sort of scenario I envision when I think about undeveloped teenage minds.

Or another recent example from the news, where this boy (a 10-year-old I think, he was young) brought a gun to school. He was going to run away with the gun for protection. He had it in his backpack, and when he threw his backpack onto a desk, the gun went off and a girl in his class got shot.

Do most 10-year-olds know that guns are dangerous and can kill people, permanently? I bet most of them do. But they're not adults, and I can definitely see how a child that age wouldn't fully understand why guns are dangerous -- that it's not just intentional shootings, that accidents can happen, that someone else could find the gun and use it in a bad way, or any of those other scenarios. They might intellectually realize that accidents can happen with guns, even, but not connect through the thought process to realize that an accident can happen with their gun.

Longer than I meant to type, but basically, though I agree that teenage brains are different and that teenagers are more risk-prone, have less impulse control, etc., acts like this I just can't see having anything to do with that.

 

[animlzrule]

Okay......so, if your teenage neighbor breaks into your house and steals one of your kitchen knives and then stabs a student to death at school with it, we should prosecute YOU?

Same question concerning your vehicle (killing machine), your prescription medications, your nail gun, etc etc etc....[/QUOTE

No. If your teenage neighbor breaks into your house and steals your GUN and shoots someone with it, you should be prosecuted. GUNS are lethal weapons, their sole purpose is to kill. If you're going to have a gun , you better be prepared to accept the consequences of destroying innocent lives with it. Guns are not a necessary component of contemporary society. Gun owners should always be held responsible for the havoc they create.

 

[momtective]

The link just says "stay strong, never forget" on twitter #chardon. Bless their hearts, too sad. Prayers to all. RIP boys.

http://yfrog.com/ody3ctzj

Looking through tweets to the above twitter account holder and found this...very, very disturbing and needs to go to LE NOW!

Text promising "more dead kids at Chardon"
https://twitter.com/#!/xsargex/status/174616704322768898/photo/1

 

[cece5300]

I think it's absolutely absurd to hold gun owners responsible. I would never prosecute an innocent person just because their gun was stolen and used by someone else. That doesn't make sense to me. If you haven't killed anyone, then you wouldn't be blamed. No one buys guns with the intent of someone else stealing them and going on a shooting spree (no one normal anyway)

 

[Tricia]

Emotions are running very high and understandably so.

It's natural to want to lash out. We are all frustrated, sad, mad, among a million different feelings.

Just please be careful and remember your fellow poster is not the enemy.

Disagree but please be respectful.

Thank you,

Tricia Griffith
Co-Owner Websleuths.com

 

[AngelWings444]

Exactly. Take the Elizabeth Olten case. Wasn't her killer seeing a psychologist almost every day? Some people are just beyond help.

I believe some people are just born evil. Just like you have babies with disabilities, babies addicted to drugs (parents fault), smarter kids etc...I don't think every single thing is a product of your environment, preventable, or curable.

Did/could anyone predict FCA would kill little Caylee, leave her in a swamp near the home? Does anyone think that ANY amount of therapy would help her? I don't.

 

[CHICANA]

Okay......so, if your teenage neighbor breaks into your house and steals one of your kitchen knives and then stabs a student to death at school with it, we should prosecute YOU?

Same question concerning your vehicle (killing machine), your prescription medications, your nail gun, etc etc etc....

No. If your teenage neighbor breaks into your house and steals your GUN and shoots someone with it, you should be prosecuted. GUNS are lethal weapons, their sole purpose is to kill. If you're going to have a gun , you better be prepared to accept the consequences of destroying innocent lives with it. Guns are not a necessary component of contemporary society. Gun owners should always be held responsible for the havoc they create.

For many, the sole purpose of owning a gun is to defend themselves and their families against criminals or intruders. There was a recent case where a young mother shot one intruder and scared the other one off. She and her baby would most likely be dead right now if she hadn't owned that gun.

 

[AngelWings444]

Teenagers don't have adult brains, true, but there are still some things they should unequivocally know are wrong. Shooting other kids in the back of the head at close range is one of those things.

I was a smart teenager. One day, a friend and I decided to go meet some older guys that were friends of her sister. We were 16 at the time. We ended up at the apartment of one of the guys. We thought we would be safe because we were "smart", and because my friend had a steak knife in her purse. In fact, when things got a little intense back in the bedroom with her and one of the guys, and he looked like he might not understand that "no" meant "no", she pulled the knife on him, and we left the apartment.

That was an incredibly stupid thing to do, all around. No one knew where we were, the guys were stronger than us, we didn't know them, and introducing a knife into the scene was just dumb. To our undeveloped teenage brains, though, it seemed to make sense at the time.

That's the sort of scenario I envision when I think about undeveloped teenage minds.

Or another recent example from the news, where this boy (a 10-year-old I think, he was young) brought a gun to school. He was going to run away with the gun for protection. He had it in his backpack, and when he threw his backpack onto a desk, the gun went off and a girl in his class got shot.

Do most 10-year-olds know that guns are dangerous and can kill people, permanently? I bet most of them do. But they're not adults, and I can definitely see how a child that age wouldn't fully understand why guns are dangerous -- that it's not just intentional shootings, that accidents can happen, that someone else could find the gun and use it in a bad way, or any of those other scenarios. They might intellectually realize that accidents can happen with guns, even, but not connect through the thought process to realize that an accident can happen with their gun.

Longer than I meant to type, but basically, though I agree that teenage brains are different and that teenagers are more risk-prone, have less impulse control, etc., acts like this I just can't see having anything to do with that.

The thanks button wasn't enough. Well said!

 

[AngelWings444]

for the victims!
http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10011473.html?tag=page
THEIR PICTURES AND STORIES

Handsome boys. May they Rest in Paradise.