GUILTY OH - Two women & child killed, 13yo abducted, Apple Valley, 10 Nov 2010 #8

[Java]

SailorMoon ask:
Question - just curious really - did they own the home they were in or rent? Who was being foreclosed on??
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Borders and Herrmann purchased the Apple Valley area house in 2007 after moving from Hilliard.

 

[mikeysmommom]

Not to harp on this video but...I agree it is a very well done dignified,respectful and informative video.It's really rather incredible how high up the tree MH needed to go to drop the bodies in!

I agree about the video, but seeing it is very haunting. I still can not wrap my mind around this level of evil.What a sick ,evil man.

 

[mikeysmommom]

http://www.knoxpages.com/?NewsID=8196&CatID=1

Hoffman waves right to hearing.

 

[CKay]

Scanner thread has an update from scanner archive research:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119680&page=19

 

[mikeysmommom]

http://www.knoxpages.com/?NewsID=8195&CatID=1

They really are doing a lot for the families.Seems like a great community to live in.

 

[Cazzie]

http://www.knoxpages.com/?NewsID=8196&CatID=1

Hoffman waves right to hearing.

This is interesting, from that link:

Knox County Prosecutor John Thatcher said the kidnapping charges, along with other unspecified allegations, will be presented to a grand jury for consideration in four to six weeks.

Thatcher declined to release search warrants obtained during the investigation.

“Public disclosure before an investigation is over will compromise the investigation, may jeopardize future investigations because confidential law enforcement methods are revealed and may impair the State’s ability to give a defendant a fair trial,” Thatcher said in a written statement.

The warrants were sealed last week by a judge.

He has also kept silent on whether Hoffman was given leniency in exchange for information leading authorities to the bodies.

So if/WHEN they charge him with 3 counts of murder and plenty more charges, will that have to go to a second GJ? Maybe they will throw those add'l charges into the 1st GJ?

 

[Texas Mist]

http://www.knoxpages.com/?NewsID=8195&CatID=1

They really are doing a lot for the families.Seems like a great community to live in.

that's got me tearing up again - so many people are showing support & doing what they can for the families...what big hearts they have.

 

[antiquegirl]

http://www.knoxpages.com/?NewsID=8196&CatID=1

Hoffman waves right to hearing.

Unless I'm mistaken, that means that he will plead guilty to the kidnapping charge and go directly to sentencing when the time comes. (If I'm right, this is completely separate from any further charges he'll be facing regarding the murders.)

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Cazzie]

Unless I'm mistaken, that means that he will plead guilty to the kidnapping charge and go directly to sentencing when the time comes. (If I'm right, this is completely separate from any further charges he'll be facing regarding the murders.)

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I just reread the article that I just replied about...

"along with other unspecified allegations" will go to the (1st) GJ.

Tomorrow's hearing was to assess "justifiable cause" for the kidnapping charge, and he waived his right to have that hearing. So next step is the GJ.

 

[Texas Mist]

Unless I'm mistaken, that means that he will plead guilty to the kidnapping charge and go directly to sentencing when the time comes. (If I'm right, this is completely separate from any further charges he'll be facing regarding the murders.)

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Here's what I think his attorney is doing.

Waiving the prelim (where evidence is presented to the court to determine if he'll be bound over for trial) keeps evidence out of public record & the atty doesn't have to show his hand at a defense yet.

Forcing an indictment by a GJ, which is a secret hearing, will keep whatever evidence the prosecutor has out of the public eye...especially if the GJ hearing transcripts remain sealed.

The defense attorney doesn't want the horrible truth about MH exposed right now.

 

[CKay]

I just reread the article that I just replied about...

"along with other unspecified allegations" will go to the (1st) GJ.

Tomorrow's hearing was to assess "justifiable cause" for the kidnapping charge, and he waived his right to have that hearing. So next step is the GJ.

Since that hearing concerns only the Kidnapping charge, it probably has to do with the expectation that the charges will be transferred OUT of Mount Vernon Municipal Court and transferred to Knox County. The crimes originated in Knox County, not Mount Vernon (the city in which he lived).

Even the kidnapping charge will transfer, since she was kidnapped in Howard, not Mount Vernon. Howard/Apple Valley is not within any city limits (County jurisdiction).

 

[SmoothOperator]

Did we ever get an accurate acct of what the actual scene of the inside of the King Beach residence was?

Valerie would be the one with the most accurate acct{of course besides LE}..Is there somewhere that she states what the scene was in the house?

Where did we learn of the beer cans? and have we ever had clarification on what the "unusual amount" of blood really meant?

I think the more detailed acct of what the inside of the residence was would lend more to was he really attempting to get away with this{as in how good of a job in cleaning up had he done}..or was it a mad frenzy and left pretty much as such?

TIA to anyone who knows..

 

[Cazzie]

I guess the "biggie takeaways" for me with this article and waiving of the hearing is that it sounds like the 1st GJ will have all the charges including the murder/and whatever else (assuming that the homicide investigation is far enough along to make the cutoff time for the GJ), and they aren't announcing about any lenience given.

 

[Cazzie]

Did we ever get an accurate acct of what the actual scene of the inside of the King Beach residence was?

Valerie would be the one with the most accurate acct{of course besides LE}..Is there somewhere that she states what the scene was in the house?

Where did we learn of the beer cans? and have we ever had clarification on what the "unusual amount" of blood really meant?

I think the more detailed acct of what the inside of the residence was would lend more to was he really attempting to get away with this{as in how good of a job in cleaning up had he done}..or was it a mad frenzy and left pretty much as such?

TIA to anyone who knows..

GB's uncle was quoted in the media as saying there was a lot of blood and 3 (I think?) rooms had to be gutted. He said "it was horrible" and "it all led back to the bathroom". Also he said that GB has no intention of ever coming back here.

That's enough for me...plus the ME's report, and that he apparently ambushed each one and was able to subdue 4 people and 1 dog, allegedly alone. He did all this while maneuvering 3 (maybe 4?) vehicles around a fairly large area, and no one saw a thing. Definite premeditation and planning, IMO.

 

[CKay]

I have once again updated scanner thread, with a question also to anyone interested in timeline details.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119680&page=20
(and prior)

 

[SmoothOperator]

Here we have Barber saying no disarray in the home, no signs of struggle, blood but no spatter, and the the no wild party comment?

This doesn't add up to what we know about there being alot of empty beer cans , along with Uncle Pejsar saying alot of blood that all led back to the bathroom??

not sure what to make of this?

Although Barber would not elaborate on exactly what he meant by there being signs of an injury other than the blood, he did say there were no signs of a struggle. He said while the amount of blood was significant it was not spattered.

He said it was impossible to tell if the blood found in the house was from more than one person.

"That's why we have the BCI&I investigating," Barber explained. "They will be able to test it and tell. There was some blood that is an unusual amount. But the house did not appear to be ransacked and there were no signs of there being a wild party or anything like that."

mt.vernon news

 

[mikeysmommom]

Here we have Barber saying no disarray in the home, no signs of struggle, blood but no spatter, and the the no wild party comment?

This doesn't add up to what we know about there being alot of empty beer cans , along with Uncle Pejsar saying alot of blood that all led back to the bathroom??

not sure what to make of this?

IMO Barber did not want just how bad the blood in the house was to get out to the public.He down played it probably so people in the town would not panic.If walls need to be gutted that is a very bad crime scene.

 

[snapdragon]

Here we have Barber saying no disarray in the home, no signs of struggle, blood but no spatter, and the the no wild party comment?

This doesn't add up to what we know about there being alot of empty beer cans , along with Uncle Pejsar saying alot of blood that all led back to the bathroom??

not sure what to make of this?

I am guessing that Barber was trying not to alarm the family and really didn't know where the family was at that time. Reports of beer bottles I believe came out initially, when all four were considered missing. Signs of struggle to me would mean things broken, chairs/furniture knocked over. To me, this signifies MH did attack one by one, perhaps hiding/stalking them in the house itself.

As far as the beer bottles, it is not known whose they were, or if they are even related to the crime or not.

I think the uncle's account, since he was the first allowed in, and is quoted in the press, is the most accurate you will get until trial.

 

[CKay]

Here we have Barber saying no disarray in the home, no signs of struggle, blood but no spatter, and the the no wild party comment?

This doesn't add up to what we know about there being alot of empty beer cans , along with Uncle Pejsar saying alot of blood that all led back to the bathroom??

not sure what to make of this?

Even I have to recognize that Sheriff Barber has been hard to read. I thought I had him figured out, until the facts came out. I think he put his "public face" on for the press, probably to make sure his whole county didn't go into panic mode (or worse, given how many gun registrations there probably are here, if you know what I mean ... I mean, someone got themselves arrested, so he could go do in MH). But he had me fooled, and calmed (mission accomplished?).

It probably explains why he always skirted around the volunteers issue. He probably knew he had to find bodies, and while he didn't want/ask volunteers to go look, what could he say that would discourage them? He was always very lukewarm on that topic though, and in hindsight I now see why.

But it also could be a difference in perception (on the blood issue). Sheriff Barber has been around a while, and has probably seen a lot. Perhaps MH cleaned it up enough that it appeared the way the Sheriff said. The Uncle's perception as a layman, might be to describe the blood from a nose bleed as "a lot". Men are more whimpy about blood, at least the ones I know. But who knows.

 

[snapdragon]

You know this trial will prolly be moved out of the area... too bad they can't move it to my area. I would gladly volunteer to sit on this trial. I would patiently give him his due process, and listen to his defense (whatever that would be), but I already know what my decision would be. :furious::furious::furious:

My true hope, really, is that he waives trial and pleas guilty. That would spare everyone. It happened in our town, where a man brutally murdered his wife- kids were at Grandma's. He then went, picked kids up, and they found their mother's body in her bedroom, stabbed repeatedly, on the floor. They were in shock and thought it was one of their dogs at first. The oldest locked herself in the bathroom and called 911. I shudder at what he might have done to the kids if she hadn't called 911. When it came time for a jury selection, he finally plead full guilt, and the kids were spared testifying. BTW- he was a lawyer, and rumor has it, was planning to use the "Prozac defense".