GUILTY OH - Two women & child killed, 13yo abducted, Apple Valley, 10 Nov 2010 #8

[headndownstream]

WARNING: Hi guys!

Please do not speculate about the gory details. What we know is gory enough. Friends and family may be reading here and we are a victim friendly board. I know it is difficult not to speculate, given the rumors that were posted at other websites, but please try for little Sarah, her remaining family and her friends.

Of course you may discuss the details that have been released.

Please let me know if you have any questions by way of pm.

Thanks,

Salem

Salem, I tried to be careful. Maybe I shouldn't have posted what I did, but my post was what I was thinking after I read the coroners statement released this afternoon.
http://www.mountvernonnews.com/local/10/11/20/ogle-releases-preliminary-autopsy-report

 

[SailorMoon]

In that article:
"Pejsa, the uncle of Herrmann's former live-in boyfriend, said the family believed someone was watching them before they were killed. He described a man in camouflage sitting on a stump across the street several months before the slayings."

I'd have called the police right then and there - suspicious person. I hear it all the time on the scanner. Good gravy. How creepy. I've wondered how Bordersfelt when they first went missing and all the blood -- I mean the ex bf is usually the first suspect. Bet he had a little more than a "oh crap" moment.

And now we know that Tina had missed 2 days of work.....bless her heart. Bless all their hearts. I don't get how he was so brazen to be just driving around right and left it seems in everyone's vehicles. So sure that no one would see him or question him. Wow.

And I also feel for his public defender. Who probably has kids of his own. Someone has to defend him - its the american way - and I'm sure he's struggled with this as well.

 

[passionflower]

Have we heard 'anything' about what MH was like before the arsen fires in CO???
What made him go to CO??
We did have a post about him being a loner in HS.
anyone remember him from childhood in Warren?
I am wondering if his parents had allot of problems with him since he was
small.

 

[gxm]

Do you think that catfish Billy helped Hoffman? Because that is too just too much of a coincidence.

The coincidence bothers me too. Although I think MH acted alone, I can't help but wonder if CB is someone MH confided in at some point, or who had prior knowledge of MH's sick obsessions and how his (warped) mind works.

 

[gxm]

(respectfully snipped)

Also, the "Catfish Billy" person who seemed to "know" about hollow trees.... I wonder if it's possible that MH told someone about getting rid of the dogs that way, and that poster was haunted by the thought that MH could have done the same with his human victims? Just a thought....

I have had the same thought. This may have been a fantasy of MH's for some time. And he may have started with animals, as killers so often do.

 

[wfgodot]

I don't think anyone helped MH. The post on Topix regarding where to look simply displayed keen logic: MH climbed trees; he had his own climbing equipment; he was recently a tree-trimmer; the ground search had so far produced nothing. Catfish Billy took a daring leap and put two and two together, methinks.

 

[passionflower]

The coincidence bothers me too. Although I think MH acted alone, I can't help but wonder if CB is someone MH confided in at some point, or who had prior knowledge of MH's sick obsessions and how his (warped) mind works.

I know MH had no electric but did he have access to a computer?
Could he of logged on to a game or something that communicatd with CatF?
Or maybe CatF is pyschic????

 

[passionflower]

Was there recently a book out on the best hiding places for bodies?
I went to amazon and can't find it.
I know when I read about it, I was sickened to think it had been written.
Could trees of been listed in it????
I thought about the book with KYRON and SUSAN............

 

[gxm]

I don't think anyone helped MH. The post on Topix regarding where to look simply displayed keen logic: MH climbed trees; he had his own climbing equipment; he was recently a tree-trimmer; the ground search had so far produced nothing. Catfish Billy took a daring leap and put two and two together, methinks.

I understand where you're coming from. But the thing that nags me about CB's comment was the "If MH were smart" wording. That seems just a little bit too staged, too scripted. I don't think most people would call MH's method of disposal "smart." I think they'd call it sick.*

*Please note: I am not calling good sleuthing "sick;" I am calling MH "sick." I mean no offense, or negative insinuation, to any sleuthers who came to similar conclusions as CB.

 

[wfgodot]

I understand where you're coming from. But the thing that nags me about CB's comment was the "If MH were smart" wording. That seems just a little bit too staged, too scripted. I don't think most people would call MH's method of disposal "smart." I think they'd call it sick.*

*Please note: I am not calling good sleuthing "sick;" I am calling MH "sick." I mean no offense, or negative insinuation, to any sleuthers who came to similar conclusions as CB.

Good point. That intro phrase could have something chilling about it. I think that CB is probably an outdoorsman and that the notion of hiding something in the hollow of a tree, far above searchers's heads, occurred to him in a "let's put myself in this guy's shoes" sense. His indelicate phrasing ("If MH were smart") was a tad hinky though.

 

[gxm]

I know MH had no electric but did he have access to a computer?
Could he of logged on to a game or something that communicatd with CatF?
Or maybe CatF is pyschic????

It's a puzzle. Especially given how CB persisted in posting his "speculation" after his comments kept getting deleted. There was a level of insistence that came across, to me at least, like CB was trying to drop hints to LE. I'd love to know if LE got any tips along this line.

 

[nomoresorrow]

Don't know if this article has been posted already but it explains how MH knew Stephanie Sprang before this and speculates about his possible involvement in other unsolved cases;

"As far as how Hoffman may have known these three, according to the Mt. Vernon News, he was a member of a gym that Stephanie Sprang worked at as a cleaning lady."

http://www.wkyc.com/news/state/ohio/news_article.aspx?storyid=159434&catid=23

 

[SailorMoon]

Maybe CB worked for the tree trimming company or something. Maybe MH had a fascination with rotting trees or something. I still don't understand this - if Sarah was his target - he had plenty of opportunities I'm sure to grab her by himself. And if DQ manager got in the back window...I wonder if he did and who knows, he may have did that more than once. Kinda like Duncan with the nightvision goggles scoping out the Groenes. I mean who would freaking think...it's so weird and disturbing. I don't think this was his first time, I'll say that. And to sit across the street staring at the house - I'm sure that was him and whoever the poster was that starting quoting the Silence of the Lambs - we covet what we see every day...was spot on.

 

[grayjay]

could catfish billy be a fly on the wall in the sheriff's office, and leaking what they all knew at that point?

 

[NSS]

I'm starting to wonder if MH might have eaten enough of the squirrels, and particularly their brains, to have some form of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease. If so, he'd be the first case I've heard of since we were informed of the dangers more than a dozen years ago. I'll have to read more, but I don't think we know a lot of 30 year olds these days who might have a steady diet of squirrel. Yes, it usually takes many years for it to show up. I realize that. File this under more weirdness, I suppose, but possibly relevant.

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/cjd/detail_cjd.htm

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2805%2963333-8/fulltext

I thought that CJD was the human form of bovine encephalitis (mad cow disease). And that the symptoms are usually more like alzheimers forgetfulness and an inability to control muscles (so stumbling/falling).

Nah - this guy is old fashioned crazy with a huge dose of evil. That was uncharitable of me, I should have said, he is one disturbed individual.

 

[Reannan]

I'm starting to wonder if MH might have eaten enough of the squirrels, and particularly their brains, to have some form of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease.

Great thought grayjay, I had actually wondered about some sort of biological explanation for this nut job. CJD (Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease) is a HORRIBLE disease that is essentially 100% fatal and has a very rapid onset with symptoms of gait imbalances, mental confusion, etc. It is a prion disease sort of like Mad Cow disease, but not exactly the same. Anyways, MH was a monster years ago because of the fires he started in Colorado. Therefore, I think his consumption of squirrels is related to some sort of fetish he had with squirrels, trees, leaves, and harming other beings.

 

[gxm]

Maybe CB worked for the tree trimming company or something. Maybe MH had a fascination with rotting trees or something. I still don't understand this - if Sarah was his target - he had plenty of opportunities I'm sure to grab her by himself. And if DQ manager got in the back window...I wonder if he did and who knows, he may have did that more than once. Kinda like Duncan with the nightvision goggles scoping out the Groenes. I mean who would freaking think...it's so weird and disturbing. I don't think this was his first time, I'll say that. And to sit across the street staring at the house - I'm sure that was him and whoever the poster was that starting quoting the Silence of the Lambs - we covet what we see every day...was spot on.

This is frightenly reminiscent of the Groene murders. I'm not sure how much we're allowed to speculate and have sent a PM to Salem. But given the planning involved with body disposal, murder was as much a part of his plan as kidnapping. IMO, killing Sarah's family was as important as taking her in MH's sick mind.

 

[Reannan]

I don't think anyone helped MH. The post on Topix regarding where to look simply displayed keen logic: MH climbed trees; he had his own climbing equipment; he was recently a tree-trimmer; the ground search had so far produced nothing. Catfish Billy took a daring leap and put two and two together, methinks.

I wish Catfish Billy would join us here at WS's. I think he would be a great asset! I think he simply had great insight.

 

[gxm]

I wish Catfish Billy would join us here at WS's. I think he would be a great asset! I think he simply had great insight.

Keep in mind that CB also "speculated" on how MH would get the bodies into the tree. I agree he has great insight, but I wonder if his insight is perhaps limited to this particular perp.

 

[MCDRAW]

It is a big jump from arson to this brutal crime involving so many victims. I don't know much about arson but I'm thinking you pour some accelerant and throw a match. This crime involved alot more. He watched them and planned. He had to have known how he was going to subdue them, how he was going to kill them, and where he would hide the bodies. I am fairly certain he didn't wonder around in the dark looking for a good hiding spot. How does one go from arson to violently killing three people and no fire was involved? He either skipped some steps in his criminal life or there are other victims. JMO