GUILTY OH - Two women & child killed, 13yo abducted, Apple Valley, 10 Nov 2010 #8

[CKay]

http://www.10tv.com/live/content/video/10tv.html

It's the second story on this video for "Morning Update."

The fire was on the porch of the home last night about 11p.m.

HTH
fran

Perhaps from a candle that was left? Think those are wood decks ...

I worried about that when I saw all the candles that were left in the lake (at the vigil). Worried they would float under someone's wood dock and catch on fire.

Will check the scanner archive for last night.

 

[CKay]

http://www.10tv.com/live/content/video/10tv.html

It's the second story on this video for "Morning Update."

The fire was on the porch of the home last night about 11p.m.

HTH
fran

While anyone is on that link, the story right below it "Knox Meeting" shows the East Knox Middle School (if interested).

 

[CKay]

Late to the discussion about the pictures of the house, but I wondered if anyone has a source to see past weather stats? I ask because we had a week of very mild/warmish weather recently and I'm not positive if it was the week including the 10th, or if it was the one before or after. I ask because it doesn't appear that the house has AC, and my thought was that they are used to having the windows open. There is even a large patio window that could have been open, to allow the breeze through (and even the other windows in the house).

 

[Smugshots]

Late to the discussion about the pictures of the house, but I wondered if anyone has a source to see past weather stats? I ask because we had a week of very mild/warmish weather recently and I'm not positive if it was the week including the 10th, or if it was the one before or after. I ask because it doesn't appear that the house has AC, and my thought was that they are used to having the windows open. There is even a large patio window that could have been open, to allow the breeze through (and even the other windows in the house).

Hi CKay,

The Re/Max listing that was posted ealier says: Energy efficient propane forced air heating and central air

 

[JenRen]

Late to the discussion about the pictures of the house, but I wondered if anyone has a source to see past weather stats? I ask because we had a week of very mild/warmish weather recently and I'm not positive if it was the week including the 10th, or if it was the one before or after. I ask because it doesn't appear that the house has AC, and my thought was that they are used to having the windows open. There is even a large patio window that could have been open, to allow the breeze through (and even the other windows in the house).

I'm in Ohio, but closer to Indiana. It was warm that week, until about Saturday I believe.

 

[Java]

Late to the discussion about the pictures of the house, but I wondered if anyone has a source to see past weather stats? I ask because we had a week of very mild/warmish weather recently and I'm not positive if it was the week including the 10th, or if it was the one before or after. I ask because it doesn't appear that the house has AC, and my thought was that they are used to having the windows open. There is even a large patio window that could have been open, to allow the breeze through (and even the other windows in the house).

Very possible -
Howard, Ohio - Mount Vernon, Ohio

11-10-10 - high of 64 / Partly Cloudy.

 

[Mia]

(RSBM)

I don't trust the media for obvious reasons. In my 1 1/2 years at WS, following half a dozen cases from beginning to end, it has become obvious that they rush to get their items into print to beat the competition, they mis-hear things, they quote unsubstantiated rumours, and they tend to sensationalize as much as their editors will allow in order to sell their product. Over and over again, we have found dozens of errors in reporting that were later proven to be false.

I also don't trust reports by neighbours, friends, and other persons interviewed by the media, some of whom exaggerate, lie, and make mistakes. Then, this can all be misquoted, or quoted out of context, by the media.

So, what's left? That leaves only what I hear LE say with my own ears. Otherwise, we really have nothing.

Today, I listened again to Sheriff Barber's first two pressers. He struck me as an honest, sincere man, calm under the circumstances. I didn't catch a single false note in what he said, unless he hesitated. With regards to the condition of the house and what LE expected after Sarah was rescued, I took him at his word and wrote down verbatim what he said.

FROM 11/13/2010 PRESSER

BARBER:

• " ... unusual amount of blood in that house."
• "It isn't from someone stubbing their toe or cutting their finger peeling an apple, or something like that."

MALE REPORTER: "It's not like an axe murder or anything like that, right?"

BARBER:

• "No, it's not. No."
• "It wasn't a situation where it looked like there was a wild party."

FEMALE REPORTER: "You have not said publicly and you're not saying now that these four people are dead."

BARBER: "Not at this time. No."

FROM 11/15/2010 PRESSER

BARBER:

• "We still want to remain optimistic that Tina, Stephanie, and Kody are alive, maybe being held against their will at some location."

This was after they had time to thoroughly investigate the house and after Hoffman had been arrested. Sheriff Barber sounded completely sincere to me. So, I can't believe that statement about the house having to be "gutted" or that it looked as bad as some reports claimed. I'm just more inclined to believe this soft-spoken sheriff than what I've read online.

But, that's JMHO.

Hi Antiquegirl! I wish I could agree with you, because the thought of the family having to clean up a horrible mess like that makes me sick to my stomach, but the facts are, three people were both stabbed to death and then dismembered in that house. It's horrible to think about, but I don't see how a crime like that could not leave a house in unlivable shape, or at least close to it.

 

[passionflower]

I would never want to live in a house of horror, even if it was gutted out.............

 

[CKay]

I'm in Ohio, but closer to Indiana. It was warm that week, until about Saturday I believe.

Hmmm, that's what I was thinking also, but not trusting my memory, given how it's hard to believe it has been almost 2 weeks already since this happened.

If that is the week of the warmer weather, it was in the 60s or so in the afternoon. And we get nice breezes here (usually). It seems plausible that TH had the patio door and other windows open. She could have been home, "airing" the house out that day.

Truthfully, this area always seemed so safe, that if it was a day that I had the windows open and I needed to run into town ... I'd sometimes run in and leave them open. But my house here has much greater visibility to passing cars, and that was my reasoning (who would dare try crawling in my front windows, with cars passing by?). That house is much more isolated, but if she was home, I can see that as a possibility. Easy to cut a (patio door) screen and walk in....

 

[CKay]

Hi Antiquegirl! I wish I could agree with you, because the thought of the family having to clean up a horrible mess like that makes me sick to my stomach, but the facts are, three people were both stabbed to death and then dismembered in that house. It's horrible to think about, but I don't see how a crime like that could not leave a house in unlivable shape, or at least close to it.

MH had time to clean up himself. If he wanted to keep SM and not get caught, perhaps he tried (and missed some spots).

But we won't know for sure unless and until crime scene photos are released.

 

[JenRen]

Hmmm, that's what I was thinking also, but not trusting my memory, given how it's hard to believe it has been almost 2 weeks already since this happened.

If that is the week of the warmer weather, it was in the 60s or so in the afternoon. And we get nice breezes here (usually). It seems plausible that TH had the patio door and other windows open. She could have been home, "airing" the house out that day.

I agree, it is plausible that she had her windows open, especially later in the day when it would have been warmer. I remember getting on myself for staying inside so much that week (glued to the pc over this case), instead of doing some yardwork while it was nice.

 

[VicVixvi]

I dont know I am searching for a link. Someone said WBNS 10 TV has confirmed it but I have not seen it yet.

http://www.knoxpages.com/?NewsID=8198&CatID=1

It was the porch according to this article.

 

[antiquegirl]

Hmmm, that's what I was thinking also, but not trusting my memory, given how it's hard to believe it has been almost 2 weeks already since this happened.

If that is the week of the warmer weather, it was in the 60s or so in the afternoon. And we get nice breezes here (usually). It seems plausible that TH had the patio door and other windows open. She could have been home, "airing" the house out that day.

Truthfully, this area always seemed so safe, that if it was a day that I had the windows open and I needed to run into town ... I'd sometimes run in and leave them open. But my house here has much greater visibility to passing cars, and that was my reasoning (who would dare try crawling in my front windows, with cars passing by?). That house is much more isolated, but if she was home, I can see that as a possibility. Easy to cut a (patio door) screen and walk in....

(RSBM)

If this had been the case, either the three wellness checks or Val would have noticed a cut screen. I think any sign of a break-in would have been noted by an experienced LEO.

To me the most convincing argument against a break-in are Sheriff Barber's own words on November 15th:

When asked whether the incident was a home invasion, Barber said it was not, but added that "either they knew Hoffman or Hoffman made himself known to them."

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-11-15/...invasion-ohio-woman-family-friend?_s=PM:CRIME

I also don't believe that Barber was trying to spare the family by lying about their optimism at first that the victims might still be alive. In the same article linked above, he said:

"We have to be realistic about the possibility that these folks are dead," Sheriff David Barber said Monday in Mount Vernon."

This indicates to me that Barber was as honest and forthcoming as he could be at the pressers. Hopefully, any such speculation on the part of LE would first be relayed to the family before they went public with it.

JMO

 

[CKay]

I agree, it is plausible that she had her windows open, especially later in the day when it would have been warmer. I remember getting on myself for staying inside so much that week (glued to the pc over this case), instead of doing some yardwork while it was nice.

Me also, about putting off some yard work. But in hindsight, I've been glad I wasn't out in the yard earlier that week and been visible to lurking/passing psychopaths. My house is before theirs. Gosh, I've even run to the mailbox in the dark before. This will change many (bad) habits I've had.

Btw, someone mentioned a news article that quoted GB saying they had someone knocking on the door and not being there when they answered. I had that happen too (summer of 2009, I believe). My first instinct was kids. The house across the street has teenage boys, and they had moved in recently at that point (my son was a teenager once...lol). First knock was around 1 a.m., then 1:30 a.m, 2 a.m. ... I even turned on a huge flood light that "lit the house up", and it didn't stop them. But I waited by the front door (has glass but a curtain on it) and listened, waited ... caught them (at least seeing one, and still remember the shocked look on his face). And it was "kids". But I doubt I'll have that same reaction, if there is a "next time". If those kids are smart, they won't do it again, since a lot of people are probably arming themselves (including me). My brother got upset that I didn't call him (he lives 4 houses away and has guns). I told him that I didn't think a prank deserved a potential for the death penalty (had something happened unexpectedly).

 

[Cazzie]

(RSBM) In the same article linked above, he said:

Quote:
When asked whether the incident was a home invasion, Barber said it was not, but added that "either they knew Hoffman or Hoffman made himself known to them."

SBM.

That part BBM gave me chills and still does. I'd never heard that phrase before that presser.

 

[Mia]

MH's suicide watch logs:

http://static.mgnetwork.com/cmh/media_path/pdf/hoffmansuicidelog.pdf

Wow, after skimming through MH's suicide watch log I'm really beginning to think a sentence of life without parole in solitary confinement is a way worse punishment than death. I got bored to tears just during the five minutes I took to read the log - i can't imagine living such a life, the same thing, day in and day out, no or very very little fresh air, no or very little social interaction, horrible food (I can only imagine)...such a life truly sounds like heLL on earth to me, and a much worse fate than death.

 

[CKay]

(RSBM)

If this had been the case, either the three wellness checks or Val would have noticed a cut screen. I think any sign of a break-in would have been noted by an experienced LEO.

To me the most convincing argument against a break-in are Sheriff Barber's own words on November 15th:


http://articles.cnn.com/2010-11-15/...invasion-ohio-woman-family-friend?_s=PM:CRIME

I also don't believe that Barber was trying to spare the family by lying about their optimism at first that the victims might still be alive. In the same article linked above, he said:



This indicates to me that Barber was as honest and forthcoming as he could be at the pressers. Hopefully, any such speculation on the part of LE would first be relayed to the family before they went public with it.

JMO

Very true, but her screen door to the sliding glass window could have been unlocked (for whatever reason ... but I think it's typical that most people are more concerned about the glass door being latched and a safety "stick" in, then the screen door if it's daytime and they're home ... well, depending on neighborhood of course). It would have been easy for him to then close and lock the door behind himself.

But I'm with you ... time will tell. There are so many possible scenarios, and I'm not 100% convinced that SM was even the target.

 

[Cazzie]

Wow, after skimming through MH's suicide watch log I'm really beginning to think a sentence of life without parole in solitary confinement is a way worse punishment than death. I got bored to tears just during the five minutes I took to read the log - i can't imagine living such a life, the same thing, day in and day out, no or very very little fresh air, no or very little social interaction, horrible food (I can only imagine)...such a life truly sounds like heLL on earth to me, and a much worse fate than death.

I wonder if he gets to choose his book from a list? Now there is punishment, just being given any old random book.

Plus having someone come look at you (or be on camera 24x7) would be torture for me.

The best I can hope (sorry, but this case really is tough to process) is that MH wants to kill himself, but he won't be allowed to. But I don't think he is suicidal, JMO.

 

[CKay]

I wonder if he gets to choose his book from a list? Now there is punishment, just being given any old random book.

Plus having someone come look at you (or be on camera 24x7) would be torture for me.

The best I can hope (sorry, but this case really is tough to process) is that MH wants to kill himself, but he won't be allowed to. But I don't think he is suicidal, JMO.

Well, from the Sheriff's perspective, he isn't going to do it on "his" watch and have his department come under the scrutiny and possible lawsuits that could follow.

 

[zoomom]

I don't think he is sucidal at all. I don't think he has any remorse or he would have already taken care of that little problem. I think he might want to slightly hurt himself in order to get better attention, different digs, a change of scenery, a new group of people to interact with....

leave him exactly where he is.