GUILTY OK - Christopher Lane, 22, Australian, slain in thrill killing, Duncan, 16 Aug 2013

[Brightbird]

I am so sad. I have an honest worry that this is going to go global. This is a full blown hate crime where undoubtedly race plays a factor. I really hope people don't judge everyone of a certain race based on just a few bad seeds.

I don't think people will judge an entire race based on this, unless they are prejudiced already. But I do think people really sit back and wonder why so many kids are shooting each other.

It really hasn't picked up *that* much attention here. It's still a headline story in the online papers. Not so much on telly. The big stories here are the doping scandal in the AFL and the federal election.

 

[Ausgirl]

The Lane family live literally five minutes from me. It's a really good area. About as far away from Crips and drive-bys as you can possibly get (geographically and otherwise).


Nice to see the local sports clubs doing memorials.

 

[otto]

And plenty of single moms have found ways to have strong male role models in their son's lives; there is a will, there is a way.

Involving children in sports is such a win-win option. Mom gets a break and the child is exposed to teamwork, leadership, acceptance through achievement, and so many other positive qualities. There's absolutely no excuse, single mom or otherwise, for teenagers to be so far down the wrong path that their idea of fun on a summer afternoon is to kill a stranger.

 

[Cappuccino]

Involving children in sports is such a win-win option. Mom gets a break and the child is exposed to teamwork, leadership, acceptance through achievement, and so many other positive qualities. There's absolutely no excuse, single mom or otherwise, for teenagers to be so far down the wrong path that their idea of fun on a summer afternoon is to kill a stranger.

Its a win-win, is it? Then what happened with JE, who was heavily enough involved with sports to harbour professional ambitions, and who also lived in a home with a mother who was happily married to JE's father?

He had both a present and correct father, who claims to have known where his son was "95% of the time" and also sports involvement. So why is he shooting people for fun?

 

[Ausgirl]

Sociopaths exist in -every- walk of life and among all people.

While behaviour the rest of us deem sociopathic is 'desirable' among certain groups (gangs, for example), it's just a fact that there's going to be some true sociopaths among them, as there are anywhere else. Difference is, they get approval for the way they are in a crime and violence oriented gang, as they wouldn't anywhere else.

And it doesn't matter how decent your parents are or where they came from or what sports you do, if you have no capacity for compassion for other human beings, you don't and that's that.

 

[Karmady]

Its a win-win, is it? Then what happened with JE, who was heavily enough involved with sports to harbour professional ambitions, and who also lived in a home with a mother who was happily married to JE's father?

He had both a present and correct father, who claims to have known where his son was "95% of the time" and also sports involvement. So why is he shooting people for fun?

I missed the mom happily married to his father. Do you have a link, please?

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Sociopaths exist in -every- walk of life and among all people.

While behaviour the rest of us deem sociopathic is 'desirable' among certain groups (gangs, for example), it's just a fact that there's going to be some true sociopaths among them, as there are anywhere else.

And it doesn't matter how decent your parents are or where they came from or what sports you do, if you have no capacity for compassion for other human beings, you don't and that's that.

Sorry, Aussie---I disagree. We need to teach our children compassion, love, boundaries, discipline, remorse, joy. We need to be better mentors and role models. And most importantly, we need to be there.

A lot of behavior is learned behavior and it starts well before 5 yrs old.

And as far as generalizing about sociopaths, the USA has way more criminals in prison than any other country---by a long shot! So we are doing something wrong as a society and it must be studied and addressed.

moo

 

[Ausgirl]

Honey - I don't think we disagree at all. Everything you said makes perfect sense.

I was, though, replying to the poster above me who was wondering why - with a father and mother present and apparently quite watchful -and - involving the boy in sports - he'd be inclined to go out killing people anyway.

I was just offering one possible reason why that one kid MIGHT do so, not speaking generally.

The definition of a sociopath is somebody who -can't- learn those good things, no matter who raises 'em.

 

[momrids6]

I'm betting there's a lot of grieving parents who have watched their kids be sucked into gangs despite their best efforts. From the reading I'm doing, it seem 'recruitment' can involve some heavy threats and violent coersion (like the kind these little monsters were trying to pull on that other boy whose father dobbed them in), drug addiction as well as the chance to make a lot of money very quickly.

Better to hammer down hard on gang activity - which would probably have to involve a lot more than just better policing. Think, military, laws changed, the stamping out of the endemic corruption that permits untold tons of drugs and illegal weapons to be imported and manufactured...

There's no simple answer, I think. Probably the entire nation, leaders and citizens all, would have to be behind the changes necessary to destroy the grip of gangs on American youth. And really, I can see that not happening any time soon. Too many self-interested factions..

I will say little- as most of my feelings would garner an extended trip to band camp- however- it is called MOVE- remove your child(ren) and yourself away from the problem.

No person in their right mind stands in the middle of a firestorm and burns... but some choose to live in the middle of a dangerous, drug filled, gang banging neighborhood.

Just like they tell recovering addicts / alcoholics;
change your environment / change your friends / change your thinking.

It can and has been done. My DH has had more than one successful HS student whose parent(s) moved them out here in the country due to the wrong crowd where they were.

 

[momrids6]

Its a win-win, is it? Then what happened with JE, who was heavily enough involved with sports to harbour professional ambitions, and who also lived in a home with a mother who was happily married to JE's father?

He had both a present and correct father, who claims to have known where his son was "95% of the time" and also sports involvement. So why is he shooting people for fun?

Um- lots of people dream of being a professional sports player. Many of them are not willing to put the work and dedication into it to become local team stars- or even local team players.

If he really wanted it- he would have been too busy trying to achieve it, imo.

 

[jjenny]

So where are the parents of the 17 year old? Parents of the others have been talking all over the place. I haven't seen a peep of the 17 year old parents.

 

[momrids6]

So where are the parents of the 17 year old? Parents of the others have been talking all over the place. I haven't seen a peep of the 17 year old parents.

his social media is gone and he snitched. Most likely a lawyer involved.

 

[jjenny]

his social media is gone and he snitched. Most likely a lawyer involved.

Did he ever have social media? Usually we get some before it disappears.
I haven't seen anything on him.
Even if the parents aren't talking, were they in court? I've seen photos of two others parents, where are his?

 

[Ausgirl]

momrid6 - I see what you mean, for sure. I do think a whole lot of people need to make a whole lot more effort for the sake of their kids.

But not everyone has the resources to simply pick up and move house just like that. It costs a LOT of money to move, new jobs aren't always easy to come by, and if you don't drive or have access to a car, it can be overwhelming. Sometimes there's elderly relatives or other family who also factor into choices like that.

It just isn't always that simple, IMO.

 

[momrids6]

momrid6 - I see what you mean, for sure. I do think a whole lot of people need to make a whole lot more effort for the sake of their kids.

But not everyone has the resources to simply pick up and move house just like that. It costs a LOT of money to move, new jobs aren't always easy to come by, and if you don't drive or have access to a car, it can be overwhelming. Sometimes there's elderly relatives or other family who also factor into choices like that.

It just isn't always that simple, IMO.

I agree it is not simple- but saving your child(ren) is a priority. If these folks work, they are usually in service jobs-which are plentiful. It may take planning, perseverance and hard work to move, but it is far easier than losing a child to a gang or death. There are many groups that will help- if they are asked.

 

[momrids6]

Did he ever have social media? Usually we get some before it disappears.
I haven't seen anything on him.
Even if the parents aren't talking, were they in court? I've seen photos of two others parents, where are his?

He had a fb- ? if it is still there; but it was stripped to a photo or him & the pg girlfriend. ? if they were there; if they were, they were not calling attention to themselves.

 

[momrids6]

:facepalm:

You are joking right?

I'm not going to numb my @$$ sitting here all night typing out one story after another about young men from the 40's and 50's who were beaten and slapped around by their fathers each day so they could learn to be MEN.

I don't believe the poster meant it literally. I think they meant go whole hog. Take away their freedom, their electronics, their friends, their drugs, and their weapons.

 

[Karmady]

:facepalm:

You are joking right?

I'm not going to numb my @$$ sitting here all night typing out one story after another about young men from the 40's and 50's who were beaten and slapped around by their fathers each day so they could learn to be MEN.

It didn't work. It never works.

Beat a dog when it growls and it only learns not to growl when you are around.

Beating a child, "Kick their "? only teaches them whoever is bigger and stronger WINS.

There are millions of people of both genders who were physically disciplined as children and benefitted or, at very least, were not damaged by it. The mantra of my kids' generation is "you can't do anything, I'll call the cops" They mean it, and they are correct. They can do pretty much whatever their own personalities will tolerate and their parent can say "oh please, don't do that it's not right" until they're blue in the face. How's that workin' out for us.jmo

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Yeah I think you are right. First they killed a helpless animal to "build their courage" and then they shot the random jogger (who didn't look like a Crips member) and then they supposedly started after someone the gang didn't like.

But they want to live, and they are scared, so one is saying it was just for a thrill (nothing gang related!!!!) and the other is dancing and prancing away likely in an effort to act bold.

That Michael kid is going to have an especially rough time on the inside, I suspect that boy won't fit in with any of the prison gangs and if any accept him he will pay a very steep price for that acceptance.

Disgusting twisted freaks! Killing the defenseless and vulnerable (a defenseless animal and a man with his back turned and unaware of the danger)! I'm not so sure they'll like jail. Hope they NEVER get out!

 

[momrids6]

There are millions of people of both genders who were physically disciplined as children and benefitted or, at very least, were not damaged by it. The mantra of my kids' generation is "you can't do anything, I'll call the cops" They mean it, and they are correct. They can do pretty much whatever their own personalities will tolerate and their parent can say "oh please, don't do that it's not right" until they're blue in the face. How's that workin' out for us.jmo

I think it depends on where you live- as to how PC or not things are.
but I have told mine to go right ahead and enjoy the state as your parent, and foster care or a group home as your residence. Not one has made that call.

ETA: with LE friends and coaches- they are very aware that my legal responsibilities to them do not include spending money, an Xbox360, an iphone, nor a ride whenever they want one. They understand these are rewards for appropriate behavior and hard work.