OK OK - Jamison Family: Truck, IDs and Dog Found Abandoned 08 Oct 2009 - #12

[TDoc72]

Forum: 2000's Missing 11-21-2013, 07:40 PM
Replies: 1,031
OK OK - Jamison Family; Truck, IDs and Dog Found Abandoned, 8 Oct 2009 - #11
Views: 51,063
Posted By mtrooper
FWIW the keys were not in the ignition. ...

FWIW the keys were not in the ignition. Sherilynn had a spare set in her purse. BOBBY'S set have not been located....well unless they were on his body. I haven't been privy to that information yet.

 

[Soulmagent]

Forum: 2000's Missing 11-21-2013, 07:40 PM
Replies: 1,031
OK OK - Jamison Family; Truck, IDs and Dog Found Abandoned, 8 Oct 2009 - #11
Views: 51,063
Posted By mtrooper
FWIW the keys were not in the ignition. ...

FWIW the keys were not in the ignition. Sherilynn had a spare set in her purse. BOBBY'S set have not been located....well unless they were on his body. I haven't been privy to that information yet.

Media reports say the keys were in the ignition.
http://newsok.com/eufaula-familys-fate-remains-mystery/article/3458228

Also LE pushed the truck from where it was left on the incline ,you cannot push it without the keys to unlock the neutral safty switch to let the car go into gear.
If those keys were removed from the purse and put into the ignition it could lead to the conflict but maybe not. It seems the key issue might not be easy to clear up.

 

[Soulmagent]

I think this may very well be what happened, in general if not in particular. I think their mouths got them into trouble.

They could have decided to buy the land and paid to someone who then murdered them.Took off with money unaware they had more.

 

[Dallen]

I'm feeling a thorough reading of threads #1-12 coming on....

 

[TDoc72]

Media reports say the keys were in the ignition.
http://newsok.com/eufaula-familys-fate-remains-mystery/article/3458228

Also LE pushed the truck from where it was left on the incline ,you cannot push it without the keys to unlock the neutral safty switch to let the car go into gear.
If those keys were removed from the purse and put into the ignition it could lead to the conflict but maybe not. It seems the key issue might not be easy to clear up.

Mtrooper is a verified search and rescue person who was originally working w/the family on this. She actually went down to OK, toured the area w/the then (super cute) sheriff and found out a lot of info. So I believe her over the MSM reports. MOO.

 

[Mapman]

Looking further, found picture showing what looks like Sherilyn's purse. It's brown and looks like a soft leather.

http://okmpjamisons.weebly.com/photos.html

Is that object the item at the top of picture 4088531 next to the deputy's hand as he is leafing through a journal? It does look like a purse.

 

[Mapman]

Mtrooper is a verified search and rescue person who was originally working w/the family on this. She actually went down to OK, toured the area w/the then (super cute) sheriff and found out a lot of info. So I believe her over the MSM reports. MOO.

If the keys found were in Sherilyn's purse, I view the situation about the same as when I thought there were no keys in the truck, and the keys nicely explain how LE could have easily moved the truck without a wrecker.

 

[TDoc72]

I think it was murder by stranger/s up on the mountain. (Not because there is so much proof, but more because there is a lack of proof for the other theories.)

Not murder/suicide: truck found parked weird, coats, food & dog in truck, why go into the mountains, both DC & PC reported general happiness (like upbeat and chatty)

Not murder by others: I don't think they were all that close w/their families. I don't know how the uncles would've known where they were. Same for handyman plus he was supposedly cleared by police.

Not lost or death from exposure: If they went for a walk, I think they would've parked better, like at the plateau and not the road. Found too far for Bobby & Madyson to walk. Not lost because they most likely crossed roads and/or water. Bodies found together. Truck seemed in working condition.

Not drugs or drug deal related **that actively involved Bobby & Sherrlynn**: their child was there, no evidence of drugs anywhere (and there would be at least residue). I can see why the large amount of $ raised eyebrows, but we know about the settlement (probably receipts or lawyer papers).

I do go back and forth with them being taken by force or not. I keep going back to the dog and why wasn't the window at least cracked open a little. I get the doors being locked because of the dog and money (at least one of them, probably Bobby, knew it was in there). Sometimes I think they may have gotten up to the plateau area on the 9th and either ran into bad guys doing bad things or were there & bad guys came across them. Maybe they tried to leave and were blocked in by other cars or even 4 wheelers. Other times I think it could be the helpful local that offers a tour and they never come back.

Unless there are bullet holes in some of the bones, I don't think we will even get a cause of death. After hearing/reading about the OK ME's office, I'd be pleasantly surprised if we hear anything w/in 6 months or even a year.

I can only pray that whatever happened up there, it was mercifully quick. And I pray for justice.

But sadly, I don't think this case will ever be solved, unless there's a miracle (like witness comes forward or some kind of super great evidence left at body site, which seems unlikely after 4 years). I could be wrong, but I don't think LE is very invested in this case at all. Sheriff #1 Beauchamp seemed very sincere in the Disappeared show (also, super cute!). Sheriff #2 Brooks seemed like he decided they were drug dealers and that was it. #3 James I don't know anything about but haven't heard/read about any new avenues to investigate or tip lines or anything else to get the public's mind back on the case. (This leads me to a rant about how uninterested the family (not NS because I think she tried somewhat) seems to be. No reward--weird. $ was available. Pushing away help from SAR. If it was me, I'd be calling LE all the time. Same w/media. I'd do anything to keep the case out there. They'd be so sick of me. It breaks my heart that it seems like no one cares.)

Thoughts? I'm always open to new ideas and changing opinions.

 

[Snoopster]

I think it was murder by stranger/s up on the mountain. (Not because there is so much proof, but more because there is a lack of proof for the other theories.)

Not murder/suicide: truck found parked weird, coats, food & dog in truck, why go into the mountains, both DC & PC reported general happiness (like upbeat and chatty)

Not murder by others: I don't think they were all that close w/their families. I don't know how the uncles would've known where they were. Same for handyman plus he was supposedly cleared by police.

Not lost or death from exposure: If they went for a walk, I think they would've parked better, like at the plateau and not the road. Found too far for Bobby & Madyson to walk. Not lost because they most likely crossed roads and/or water. Bodies found together. Truck seemed in working condition.

Not drugs or drug deal related **that actively involved Bobby & Sherrlynn**: their child was there, no evidence of drugs anywhere (and there would be at least residue). I can see why the large amount of $ raised eyebrows, but we know about the settlement (probably receipts or lawyer papers).

I do go back and forth with them being taken by force or not. I keep going back to the dog and why wasn't the window at least cracked open a little. I get the doors being locked because of the dog and money (at least one of them, probably Bobby, knew it was in there). Sometimes I think they may have gotten up to the plateau area on the 9th and either ran into bad guys doing bad things or were there & bad guys came across them. Maybe they tried to leave and were blocked in by other cars or even 4 wheelers. Other times I think it could be the helpful local that offers a tour and they never come back.

Unless there are bullet holes in some of the bones, I don't think we will even get a cause of death. After hearing/reading about the OK ME's office, I'd be pleasantly surprised if we hear anything w/in 6 months or even a year.

I can only pray that whatever happened up there, it was mercifully quick. And I pray for justice.

But sadly, I don't think this case will ever be solved, unless there's a miracle (like witness comes forward or some kind of super great evidence left at body site, which seems unlikely after 4 years). I could be wrong, but I don't think LE is very invested in this case at all. Sheriff #1 Beauchamp seemed very sincere in the Disappeared show (also, super cute!). Sheriff #2 Brooks seemed like he decided they were drug dealers and that was it. #3 James I don't know anything about but haven't heard/read about any new avenues to investigate or tip lines or anything else to get the public's mind back on the case. (This leads me to a rant about how uninterested the family (not NS because I think she tried somewhat) seems to be. No reward--weird. $ was available. Pushing away help from SAR. If it was me, I'd be calling LE all the time. Same w/media. I'd do anything to keep the case out there. They'd be so sick of me. It breaks my heart that it seems like no one cares.)

Thoughts? I'm always open to new ideas and changing opinions.

:goodpost:

I can't say I disagree with any of your logic. I'm not quite so confident that family wasn't involved, although it's a somewhat low probability.

 

[Mapman]

I think it was murder by stranger/s up on the mountain. (Not because there is so much proof, but more because there is a lack of proof for the other theories.)

Not murder/suicide: truck found parked weird, coats, food & dog in truck, why go into the mountains, both DC & PC reported general happiness (like upbeat and chatty)

Not murder by others: I don't think they were all that close w/their families. I don't know how the uncles would've known where they were. Same for handyman plus he was supposedly cleared by police.

Not lost or death from exposure: If they went for a walk, I think they would've parked better, like at the plateau and not the road. Found too far for Bobby & Madyson to walk. Not lost because they most likely crossed roads and/or water. Bodies found together. Truck seemed in working condition.

Not drugs or drug deal related **that actively involved Bobby & Sherrlynn**: their child was there, no evidence of drugs anywhere (and there would be at least residue). I can see why the large amount of $ raised eyebrows, but we know about the settlement (probably receipts or lawyer papers).

I do go back and forth with them being taken by force or not. I keep going back to the dog and why wasn't the window at least cracked open a little. I get the doors being locked because of the dog and money (at least one of them, probably Bobby, knew it was in there). Sometimes I think they may have gotten up to the plateau area on the 9th and either ran into bad guys doing bad things or were there & bad guys came across them. Maybe they tried to leave and were blocked in by other cars or even 4 wheelers. Other times I think it could be the helpful local that offers a tour and they never come back.

Unless there are bullet holes in some of the bones, I don't think we will even get a cause of death. After hearing/reading about the OK ME's office, I'd be pleasantly surprised if we hear anything w/in 6 months or even a year.

I can only pray that whatever happened up there, it was mercifully quick. And I pray for justice.

But sadly, I don't think this case will ever be solved, unless there's a miracle (like witness comes forward or some kind of super great evidence left at body site, which seems unlikely after 4 years). I could be wrong, but I don't think LE is very invested in this case at all. Sheriff #1 Beauchamp seemed very sincere in the Disappeared show (also, super cute!). Sheriff #2 Brooks seemed like he decided they were drug dealers and that was it. #3 James I don't know anything about but haven't heard/read about any new avenues to investigate or tip lines or anything else to get the public's mind back on the case. (This leads me to a rant about how uninterested the family (not NS because I think she tried somewhat) seems to be. No reward--weird. $ was available. Pushing away help from SAR. If it was me, I'd be calling LE all the time. Same w/media. I'd do anything to keep the case out there. They'd be so sick of me. It breaks my heart that it seems like no one cares.)

Thoughts? I'm always open to new ideas and changing opinions.

Nice Post.

Let's not give up hope that the ME's office and LE will find some evidence of murder from the remains or other evidence found at the location if murder occurred. Perhaps bullets in or near the remains were recovered with metal detectors, or perhaps fractures, bullet holes, or knife marks indicating a possibility of murder will be discovered. Possibly finding Sherilyn's pistol on or off of her person either fired or unfired could provide LE with valuable information. Perhaps the presence or absence of items such as watches or rings could yield valuable clues.

I'm guessing that the ME cannot say that the cause of death was murder because establishing murder requires the proof of multiple elements, including intent, that probably cannot be ascertained by the ME. The ME might say COD was from a bullet wound or blunt force trauma to the head, but it is difficult to see how the ME could conclusively say that a person was murdered. LE will probably have to connect some dots to prove murder, and they might be able to do this without the ME being able to determine COD. The current sheriff of Latimer county is the first sheriff to have the benefit of knowing that the Jamisons are dead in his county and not merely missing so hopefully the focus of the investigation has changed. He and the OSBI should have evidence other than COD or other findings of the ME, and it wouldn't surprise me if LE already has an opinion but will wait for the ME report before making an official announcement. If the ME can find no signs of foul play, and LE can find no evidence of foul play, I expect the case to stall until other evidence becomes available.

In my opinion a murderer of the Jamisons, whether a rational evil person or a psychopath, has probably committed or will commit more crimes and once caught there is a possibility of linking him/her to the Jamison deaths. Hopefully, the next person who commits a violent crime somewhere else but lived on Panola mountain or in the area at the time of the Jamison's disappearance will get a lot of scrutiny by LE. The article about another Oklahoma case at the following link is an example of this situation.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/09/justice/oklahoma-slain-girls/

And of course, murder might never be proven for the reason that the Jamison's were not murdered.

 

[TDoc72]

I wonder how long LE was up on the mountain after the bodies/bones were found. I hope they searched very methodically and carefully.

I haven't given up hope, however, this LE doesn't leave me with a lot of confidence. I hope I'm wrong on that and we'll get some answers at some point. I'm really interested in what the ME will say and any evidence found. Fingers crossed for soon, but as I said before, I think it will be a long while.

 

[watcher9]

I wonder how long LE was up on the mountain after the bodies/bones were found. I hope they searched very methodically and carefully.

I haven't given up hope, however, this LE doesn't leave me with a lot of confidence. I hope I'm wrong on that and we'll get some answers at some point. I'm really interested in what the ME will say and any evidence found. Fingers crossed for soon, but as I said before, I think it will be a long while.

According to this article, it was a two day search.

Investigators found the skeletal remains of two adults and one child over a two-day search.

http://www.kjrh.com/news/state/rema...earch-for-missing-jamison-family-from-eufaula

Since it appears that only partial remains were found, can they still extract some DNA from the bones for identification? It may be awhile - if at all - before cause of death can be determine if tell-tale bones are missing.

OSBI Assistant Special Agent in Charge Gary Perkinson told News On 6 it will be a while before positive identification is made, but they appear to be partial remains of three people.

http://www.missingpersonsofamerica.com/2013/11/jamison-family-skeletal-remains-found.html

Just thinking, if they were caught in the storm and struck by lightning, could that be determined by the ME?

 

[Mapman]

Just thinking, if they were caught in the storm and struck by lightning, could that be determined by the ME?

Very interesting idea. I don't know much about lightning strikes so I looked on the web after I read your post. It appears that lightning strikes can cause a wide range of damage to the body and/or clothing depending on if it is a direct hit, or indirect hit or a couple of other possibilities as well as the path that the electrical energy takes through or around the body. My impression from a cursory reading of a web page is that a lightning strike can easily kill multiple people. I hope that the ME takes a close look at this possibility. It would explain how they did not manage to survive long enough to be found by the traffic in the area.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

This site briefly talks about lightning strikes: http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1975728-overview#a1

Note: The photos might be too graphics for some.

Short answer is that it is difficult to detect forensic evidence of a lightning strike even when the body is discovered soon after death.

Now, I think there might be a record of lightning strikes; they can be tracked (and are on the local news). If there were some in the immediate area, the timing might be linked.

 

[watcher9]

This site briefly talks about lightning strikes: http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1975728-overview#a1

Note: The photos might be too graphics for some.

Short answer is that it is difficult to detect forensic evidence of a lightning strike even when the body is discovered soon after death.

Now, I think there might be a record of lightning strikes; they can be tracked (and are on the local news). If there were some in the immediate area, the timing might be linked.

Thank you for this very informative link. Here is a paragraph from it concerning lightning, although it doesn't really get into any remains that have been in the elements for years. It is my understanding that even the clothing was not intact which would further deter the finding of identity or cause of death.

Determination that lightning is the cause of the death is often based on a thorough scene investigation, as the postmortem findings can be minimal to none. Records pertaining to the weather at the time of the incident and, if available, eyewitness accounts, will greatly aid the death investigation process.

Earlier when I mentioned lightning as a possible cause, it was just a thought of how all three could have been killed without any foul play.

 

[zollie]

From The Eufaula Indian Journal Jan. 9, 2014 written by Jerry Fink quoting the hunter (Tim Graham ) that found skelton remains.

The skeletons were on top of the ground, but sunk a little bit into the soil from being there so long Graham said, they had settled into the ground face down. All I could see was the back of their heads. He said there were three skulls one big one a smaller one and a small one. The big one had a hole on the top of the head. Graham said lawmen tried to tell him it could have been from a coyote, aint no coyote did that said Graham. I rolled it over with my foot and saw the eye socket I called to Sherri and said I found a human skull she came up and sure enough it was a human skull, she took a step and found a femur bone I glanced to my right an found another one , Sherri says lets get the hell out of here, my wife took off down the first hill and found another one. The skeltons were about 75 years from the road,It was in a wooded area by golly a trail went right to it.

 

[Dallen]

From The Eufaula Indian Journal Jan. 9, 2014 written by Jerry Fink quoting the hunter (Tim Graham ) that found skelton remains.

The skeletons were on top of the ground, but sunk a little bit into the soil from being there so long Graham said, they had settled into the ground face down. All I could see was the back of their heads. He said there were three skulls one big one a smaller one and a small one. The big one had a hole on the top of the head. Graham said lawmen tried to tell him it could have been from a coyote, aint no coyote did that said Graham. I rolled it over with my foot and saw the eye socket I called to Sherri and said I found a human skull she came up and sure enough it was a human skull, she took a step and found a femur bone I glanced to my right an found another one , Sherri says lets get the hell out of here, my wife took off down the first hill and found another one. The skeltons were about 75 years from the road,It was in a wooded area by golly a trail went right to it.

That makes it sounds like they were a little further apart than I thought. Interesting. Face down. I'm not sure if that rules out anything, but in my mind, it would make it seem less likely they just succumbed to the elements after getting lost.

 

[ZooSleuth]

That makes it sounds like they were a little further apart than I thought. Interesting. Face down. I'm not sure if that rules out anything, but in my mind, it would make it seem less likely they just succumbed to the elements after getting lost.

Did you miss the part about the hole in one of the skulls??

 

[ZooSleuth]

From The Eufaula Indian Journal Jan. 9, 2014 written by Jerry Fink quoting the hunter (Tim Graham ) that found skelton remains.

The skeletons were on top of the ground, but sunk a little bit into the soil from being there so long Graham said, they had settled into the ground face down. All I could see was the back of their heads. He said there were three skulls one big one a smaller one and a small one. The big one had a hole on the top of the head. Graham said lawmen tried to tell him it could have been from a coyote, aint no coyote did that said Graham. I rolled it over with my foot and saw the eye socket I called to Sherri and said I found a human skull she came up and sure enough it was a human skull, she took a step and found a femur bone I glanced to my right an found another one , Sherri says lets get the hell out of here, my wife took off down the first hill and found another one. The skeltons were about 75 years from the road,It was in a wooded area by golly a trail went right to it.

Is this a print only publication? If so, could we see a camera phone pic of it if you have time to upload one? Thanks!

 

[Dallen]

Yesterday NS posted on FTJ FB page that she has spoken with the the ME again, and it may take another 6 months or longer to ID them