OK OK - Jamison Family: Truck, IDs and Dog Found Abandoned 08 Oct 2009 - #12

[Hatfield]

Am very displeased that the Jamisons have been moved to the Missing But Not Forgotten forum. Our conversation seems to have ground to a halt since then. Although, to be perfectly honest, we are in desperate need of fresh info to chew on.

NS posted on her FB page that no one seems to want to talk about the Jamisons anymore. I do. I definitely do. I wish I could sit down with her and talk heart to heart and ask questions and see if together we could come up with some new angle to investigate, or some new detail, or clear up confusion about this or that, or just anything. Anything at all. But she has a lot on her plate right now, and it just doesn't seem right to ask.

I wonder if any zippers were among the clothing remnants found with the remains, and if they were in the open or closed position. As disturbing as it is to think that Sherilyn and/or Madyson may have been targeted by a sexual predator, that's really the only motive that makes sense to me right now. There are other possibilities, of course, but most of them are a bit more of a stretch to imagine.

Hello OkieGranny and everyone...

Just checking in and trying to do some catching up, and finally found where they moved this case.

Due to being very busy the last couple months, I seldom get a chance anymore to come onto WS, but when I do, I am so happy to see that you all have done a marvelous job with trying to piece some of the mysteries of this case together.

THANKS to you and everyone here for keeping this case moving as much as possible. Any updates and comments are much appreciated.

 

[Hatfield]

Here's a closeup from the pic:

There was some discussion in the earlier threads that the thing to the left of the phone/GPS might be the empty holster for the .22, but it looks like a leather cigarette case to me, the kind that snaps open at the top. Did Sherilyn smoke? I know Bobby did but am not sure about her.

There is no doubt to me that the thing on the left is a "Camo-painted" something. I almost wondered if it is a camo holster holding a pink gun and we may be seeing the bottom of the gun's handle + clip pointing at us. Or maybe a pink stun gun in the holster.
But just not sure if that is a pink gun in a holster or not. Or the pink item could just be a separate item to the right of the camo item.

The camo item could also be a GPS or 2-way radio, as I have seen Camo painted GPS devices before.

It seems a lot of things are painted camo these days, but usually they are hunting oriented items like GPS, guns, 2-way Radios, Holsters, etc.

Im going to try to search for any pink colored guns to see if I see a handle clip area that may look like that pink thing's bottom.

 

[Hatfield]

This is the closest camo holster I could find that may be similar to what we are looking at as far as the camo thing on the left.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free...ster-Scabbard-with-Waist-Clip/1536844853.html

 

[Hatfield]

Yes, a .22 caliber is what I've read as well. Interesting that you mentioned matching any bullets found to a previously fired bullet from that gun. If the story about Sherilyn firing into the ground near the handyman's feet earlier that summer is accurate, there should still be a bullet or two in the yard of the Eufaula house.

I wish we knew whether a metal detector was used to search the area where the remains were found.

Great thinking.

I just saw a review of the DC Sniper case , where they knew that the 2 perps had done target practicing in their previous home before the DC shootings. While LE was still trying to capture them, other LE was at their previous home literally ripping up a large tree trunk and took it away to extract bullets from it. They used those bullets to help identify that those same 2 perps were the same people doing all the shooting in the DC sniper case using the same gun.

You are absolutely right that if they can find these old bullets in good enough shape, then they could possibly see if the bullets in their bodies (if found there), would match those other bullets, which would then prove they came from her gun.

Someone did mention an important point though. It would not totally outrule another person killing all 3 of them with her own gun, if the perp(s) somehow got ahold of it and used it on them.

We really need that ME report badly. Im hoping it comes quickly to help us better understand what may have happened.

If we find out bullets were used on the bodies, then I am inclined to believe they ran into some perp(s) while up there. Another post mentioned someone saw an old abandoned meth site near the area. So if they happened to run into some people like that, and if maybe Sherilyn panicked and pulled her gun on them, then maybe the perp person calmed them down enough to either get her gun from her, or even draw his own weapon and took them all out.

If a perp(s) took them out, then IMO, for some reason, I kind of think the perp(s) went back to their truck and moved their truck to where it could be found quicker, and made sure the dog had access to that water. I think maybe the perp originally was going to take some of their things, but then decided to leave everything in the truck to make sure they took none of their belongings. The perp may have been a dog lover and just needed to try to make sure the dog would be found. They may have tried to let the dog out to run on its own, but the dog may have just stood there and wanted to go with the perp. So maybe all they could do was put it back in the truck and make sure it had access to water and then move the truck to where it could be spotted quicker that something was wrong.

Just some different things Ive been trying to run through. That ME report is going to be the key, and we need details when the ME report comes back. I hope LE releases all they can as soon as they know. Its been way too long already. Uggggghhhh.

 

[OkieGranny]

Funny you should mention a pink stun gun, because I have one:

And a purple one too, so one stays in the house and the other in my purse. One of these days I'm going to reach in there and totally shock the crap out of myself.

 

[TooCurious]

Anyone know where they sent the remains in Texas and how bad their backlog is?

I have changed my vote, based on the road mapping by Okiegranny. It seems entirely possible they could have followed the road and ended up where they were found.

Murder 70%
Murder/Suicide 5%
Exposure 15%
Bigfoot or other 4.5%
WPP 0.5%

 

[SchoolgirlShamus]

I can"t get w/ the exposer theory mostly as others posted that if you were lost/cold/hungry you would walk right back to the road that was on 3 sides of where you end up.??

I think someone (sorry, I don't remember who) envisioned them lost even with the roads, going up several dead ends only to have to turn around and retrace until they were exhausted and disoriented. I imagine it was slow going with a child, and maybe painful too with Bobby's back.

Maybe somehow (irrationally, for whatever reason -- lost person behavior/confirmation bias, intoxication, the early "confused" stages of hypothermia), they went into the woods because they believed they knew where they were heading, and tried to take a short cut...? Maybe they thought they saw a light and assumed it was headlights or a residence so they headed that way? Maybe there was a foot trail at the point where they left the road and they were so frustrated with the road that they decided to take it to head in a new direction and hopefully get somewhere?

Who knows, maybe they wandered up and down the road until dark -- raining, colder, at some point -- then they went into the woods in the dim hope of slightly improved shelter for the night, and got lost in the dark. The woodsman who told the story here about getting lost in nighttime woods -- pretty much immediately, though experienced in the woods and very close to the backpack he had set down -- had an interesting perspective.

I think hypothermia is statistically much more likely than murder. But there is just so much weirdness surrounding the Jamisons. And how did they get into that particular area in the first place??

Oh, I did want to give a reminder, though: if they were found unclothed, with no signs of foul play, it does not necessarily indicate a sexual assault. In the dangerous later stages of hypothermia, a significant percentage of people have sensations of being too hot, and "paradoxical undressing" occurs.

http://www.weirduniverse.net/blog/permalink/paradoxical_undressing/

Not saying that it was hypothermia -- I just wanted to make that point about the clothing. I think I'm about 45%, 45%, 10% on the three main possible scenarios now. Sigh.

 

[SchoolgirlShamus]

I really have to ask myself why ''peggy " would claim this . I also wonder when it was supposed to happen as this is still and open case and I really dont see the FBI shredding any report or document in a cabin relating to an open case, in the feild.

Unless maybe the FBI was hiding something but then I expect they would have took precaution to ensure it was never able to be pieced or taped together.

I do not believe the peggy and a roll of tape story.

Maybe it excited her or made her feel important to be deeply involved in the case, even more so than she was. There are always a few like that surrounding missing persons cases, it seems. She could have been dining out on her story for months.

Did she ever say or hint what all was in these papers?

 

[OkieGranny]

Anyone know where they sent the remains in Texas and how bad their backlog is?

The University of North Texas does DNA testing for cases all over the country. Don't know exactly how bad the backlog is, but I can give you a few examples of cases waiting in line:

Still no confirmation remains found in Studebaker near Alcester are girls missing since 1971

The car was found upside down last September in an embankment in Brule Creek near Alcester...

Attorney General Marty Jackley said he's waiting for the University of North Texas to identify the remains using DNA testing.

UNT sleuths to help Florida identify remains from boys’ reform school

At least 96 boys, the youngest 6 years old, and two adults died between 1914 and 1973 at Florida’s school for troubled boys (eventually called the Arthur G. Dozier School) investigations have found. But old ledgers are a jumble, grave markers are misplaced and 22 known deaths have no recorded burials....

After exhumation and analysis, bones will be sent to Fort Worth, to the Center for Human Identification at the University of North Texas Health Science Center. So will DNA samples from as many living relatives as can be found.

More human remains found near Myrtle Beach site where skull was discovered

WMBF News reported that if found to be human, the anthropologist on the case will likely be able to tell whether or not the bones are from the same male. The other remains are being shipped to the University of North Texas, where a DNA analysis will be performed.

I'm just as frustrated as any of you; I want answers now. But I'm also realistic, and am pretty sure we're going to be waiting for a while. Several months, most likely.

 

[Hatfield]

Funny you should mention a pink stun gun, because I have one:

And a purple one too, so one stays in the house and the other in my purse. One of these days I'm going to reach in there and totally shock the crap out of myself.

The item on the right could very well be a stun gun like this one. In the truck photo, there is a small black area at the bottom of the pink item, and I wonder if that maybe where a charger cord gets plugged in to charge up the stun gun. Some of them are re-chargeable.

Also, it is interesting to note that on top of the pink item, there is a flat black cover or something, which looks like "foam" packaging material just like the foam that is under your item in your photo. I wonder if they just put that black foam over the pink item to hide it from immediate view of anyone looking in at them.

One other note. To the very left of the "holster thing", there are small shiny things showing up, and I could almost swear those are bullets in a bullet holding belt of some sort. Or bullets in a "speed loader" holder.

I suppose we will never know for sure what these items are until we get confirmation of what was found in the vehicle.

 

[TooCurious]

I think someone (sorry, I don't remember who) envisioned them lost even with the roads, going up several dead ends only to have to turn around and retrace until they were exhausted and disoriented. I imagine it was slow going with a child, and maybe painful too with Bobby's back.

Maybe somehow (irrationally, for whatever reason -- lost person behavior/confirmation bias, intoxication, the early "confused" stages of hypothermia), they went into the woods because they believed they knew where they were heading, and tried to take a short cut...? Maybe they thought they saw a light and assumed it was headlights or a residence so they headed that way? Maybe there was a foot trail at the point where they left the road and they were so frustrated with the road that they decided to take it to head in a new direction and hopefully get somewhere?

Who knows, maybe they wandered up and down the road until dark -- raining, colder, at some point -- then they went into the woods in the dim hope of slightly improved shelter for the night, and got lost in the dark. The woodsman who told the story here about getting lost in nighttime woods -- pretty much immediately, though experienced in the woods and very close to the backpack he had set down -- had an interesting perspective.

I think hypothermia is statistically much more likely than murder. But there is just so much weirdness surrounding the Jamisons. And how did they get into that particular area in the first place??

Oh, I did want to give a reminder, though: if they were found unclothed, with no signs of foul play, it does not necessarily indicate a sexual assault. In the dangerous later stages of hypothermia, a significant percentage of people have sensations of being too hot, and "paradoxical undressing" occurs.

http://www.weirduniverse.net/blog/permalink/paradoxical_undressing/

Not saying that it was hypothermia -- I just wanted to make that point about the clothing. I think I'm about 45%, 45%, 10% on the three main possible scenarios now. Sigh.

I think you are referencing me here with the lost trail scenario. If you look at the trails that were outlined, if they were headed north and realized they were lost and took the first trail they crossed it would have brought them to the road they were found in close proximity to. 2 wrong turns and about 5 miles of walking would have them in the woods at night with a storm coming in. What would you do if the rain came in and temps dropped? Maybe got off the road and seek shelter in denser woods?? There would be at least a little protection from the wind and rain. This seems logical to me and I would favor it except for the phone calls on the 12th, the missing briefcase, and a host of small little details that just don't fit.

The muddy footprints of Madyson bothers me to no end, along with the tire tracks right in front if the driver side tire of the Jamison truck. Unless it is an optical illusion, that track is so close to the truck it had to have been made before the truck was parked. Why do these things cause me problems? The rain storm the night of the 8th! That was 4" of rain and should have almost obliterated all signs of passage. That and the fact that I have not seen anywhere that shows there was substantial rainfall the previous week that would have made the ground muddy enough to hold tracks that long through 4" of rain. The road definitely should not have been that muddy before the rainfall that occured the night they went missing. It is more logical that they were made after the storm. IMO

 

[little726]

Yeah, the FBI story really does sound too good to be true. Just wishful thinking, wishing I knew more. The only part of PC's statement that I was able to see (on video) didn't say much:

http://youtu.be/p5v52oKZSMw?t=6m6s



I forgot to mention that the two properties north of Robber's Cave that the Jamisons may or may not have been looking at during that trip were owned by SH, the Land Dirt Cheap guy.

http://www.land-dirt-cheap.com/

http://stores.ebay.com/land-dirt-cheap

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6084303&postcount=525.



http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5821687&postcount=152.



http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121549&page=23.



According to phone records, the Jamisons' last phone call to SH was on October 5, to a Texas area code. He lived in Emory, TX at the time, but now lives in Oklahoma, just west of the northern end of Lake Eufaula.

I did google that 1-800 number and found of SH's several websites:

http://countrylandcompany.com/Contact_Us_UIHU.html

http://www.CHOCTAWHOG.com/

http://americanmulefoothog.com/amf_004.htm

And then further down the rabbit hole:

http://tulsa.craigslist.org/fgs/4236728481.html

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm6D-WPyJyE7qwn32-SEk3w

http://www.qminderapp.com/business/Pine-Gulch-Catahoulas

Guy's got a lot of irons in the fire.

Thank you OkieGranny, for gathering and posting SH's businesses. Here is another one to add to the list:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...76214306829.2129745.1319122148&type=1&theater

 

[OkieGranny]

The item on the right could very well be a stun gun like this one. In the truck photo, there is a small black area at the bottom of the pink item, and I wonder if that maybe where a charger cord gets plugged in to charge up the stun gun. Some of them are re-chargeable.

Also, it is interesting to note that on top of the pink item, there is a flat black cover or something, which looks like "foam" packaging material just like the foam that is under your item in your photo. I wonder if they just put that black foam over the pink item to hide it from immediate view of anyone looking in at them.

One other note. To the very left of the "holster thing", there are small shiny things showing up, and I could almost swear those are bullets in a bullet holding belt of some sort. Or bullets in a "speed loader" holder.

I suppose we will never know for sure what these items are until we get confirmation of what was found in the vehicle.

My stun gun doesn't have a port to plug in a charger cord; there's a button on the bottom that slides forward and the prongs spring out and you just plug it directly into an outlet. Depends on make/model, really.

Sherilyn didn't smoke, per NS, so the "holster thing" is not a cigarette pack holder like I was thinking. If it was an empty .22 holster, as was speculated in the earlier threads, then Sheriff Beauchamp and that guy who was sheriff after him surely would've mentioned it in the videos. I mean, they had no problem bringing up every other crazy thing, so why wouldn't they say an empty holster was found in the truck if there was one?

I really don't know what it is, but I don't see any bullets next to it. Looks like some change. I see silver coins.

 

[ZooSleuth]

I think you are referencing me here with the lost trail scenario. If you look at the trails that were outlined, if they were headed north and realized they were lost and took the first trail they crossed it would have brought them to the road they were found in close proximity to. 2 wrong turns and about 5 miles of walking would have them in the woods at night with a storm coming in. What would you do if the rain came in and temps dropped? Maybe got off the road and seek shelter in denser woods?? There would be at least a little protection from the wind and rain. This seems logical to me and I would favor it except for the phone calls on the 12th, the missing briefcase, and a host of small little details that just don't fit.

The muddy footprints of Madyson bothers me to no end, along with the tire tracks right in front if the driver side tire of the Jamison truck. Unless it is an optical illusion, that track is so close to the truck it had to have been made before the truck was parked. Why do these things cause me problems? The rain storm the night of the 8th! That was 4" of rain and should have almost obliterated all signs of passage. That and the fact that I have not seen anywhere that shows there was substantial rainfall the previous week that would have made the ground muddy enough to hold tracks that long through 4" of rain. The road definitely should not have been that muddy before the rainfall that occured the night they went missing. It is more logical that they were made after the storm. IMO

I think the voicemail calls on the 12th were probably made by the dog stepping on the phone. When a phone shuts down because the battery is too low, some of them will have enough battery left to boot up again. If the dog stepped on the power button and the blackberry booted back up, a notification would appear that there are new voicemails. Simply hitting the phone's main button with that notification on the screen probably would dial VM.

What's the story on Madyson's footprints? I forgot. Thanks!

 

[SchoolgirlShamus]

I think you are referencing me here with the lost trail scenario.

Oh, thanks! My memory is often faulty. Especially when there is so much detail here -- multiplied by the unbelievable amount of info on the McStay threads which I am also reading. My stars!

If you look at the trails that were outlined, if they were headed north and realized they were lost and took the first trail they crossed it would have brought them to the road they were found in close proximity to. 2 wrong turns and about 5 miles of walking would have them in the woods at night with a storm coming in.

Ah geez. That would really suck. Just imagine how frightening! Inadequate clothing, no lights, no food or water or shelter, no vehicle, no cell phones, no one who really knows where you are, and a little child with you?

What would you do if the rain came in and temps dropped? Maybe got off the road and seek shelter in denser woods?? There would be at least a little protection from the wind and rain. This seems logical to me and I would favor it except for the phone calls on the 12th, the missing briefcase, and a host of small little details that just don't fit.BBM

Too true. This is why I am evenly divided now between exposure and murder (with 10% left over for murder/suicide after learning SJ tried to commit suicide just a month earlier) -- the phone calls on the 12th especially.

Besides the person who harmed them having control of the phone and planting it in the vehicle later, the only thing I can think of is that the dog stepped on the phone, OR, that someone had access to Bobby's voicemail password or a way to dial in without a password, and possibly checked the voicemail because they were concerned about the Jamisons' absence or unavailability, and were looking for info as to what was going on with them, not realizing the peril they were in. It does seem intrusive, but sometimes good friends or family members share things like that with each other.

I don't see how police would be unable to determine the source of that call. But, maybe it's already known who accessed the VM, and it's just a detail of the investigation we don't know about. There must be some obvious stuff the police have not shared to protect the investigation. ...I think? I hope?

Unless it is an optical illusion, that track is so close to the truck it had to have been made before the truck was parked. Why do these things cause me problems? The rain storm the night of the 8th! That was 4" of rain and should have almost obliterated all signs of passage.

Agreed, except that I'm totally unacquainted with the soil in that area of the country, and don't know how hard/dusty/loose it is, or how it's affected by rain.

In southern Ohio the soil after a rain would be a muddy, clayey mess, but there might be tracks that would solidify when the weather got dry. I seem to recall the kids in my neighborhood made footprints and slide marks in our woods and the creek banks that were still there after heavy rain; but it's been a long time, and I truly don't know how all that works. (I'd do an experiment if we weren't buried under snow and ice right now.) I think it's unwise of me to extrapolate soil characteristics from my own area to theirs, so I appreciate the input of locals very much.

 

[Mapman]

I've also been bothered by the tire track next to the front driver's side tire of the truck. Because of the track's proximity to the truck tire it seems that it had to be placed there before the truck was placed in the position shown in the photo. The track also seems pretty well defined to have been through a 4” rain which suggests that it was placed there after the rain. It also seems strange that the track just stops near the truck tire which means that if it was left by another vehicle entering the location, the vehicle would have had to stop and back out over exactly the same track which seems unlikely. Also, there is a surprising amount of dirt/mud on the tread of the driver's side tire which suggests that the tire rolled through some mud after the 4” rain because so much mud remains on the tire. Furthermore, it appears that the truck is is not parallel to the road which seems odd because if Bobby was driving along the road and merely stopped, the truck would most likely have been fairly parallel to the road. Does anyone know for a fact that the truck was not moved between the time of its discovery and the taking of the photograph? Perhaps the track was made by the Jamison truck while being maneuvered forward and backward to get it out of the way. But how could the truck have been maneuvered unless LE had somehow obtained a key? Confusing.

 

[zollie]

in a previous thread someone quotes p.c. of stating you could not open passenger side doors because of hillside? I have no idea how accurate that statement might be or how she would know that, clearly thats not the case in photo.

 

[little726]

I have a few questions that would help me on my timeline, any help would be great. I am hoping to get up to Panola soon and take some pictures.

Does anyone know what state "The out of state land owners Bobby called" live in or an area code? This would be most helpful to me on my timeline.

Did the Jamison's talk to "the neighbor" on Oct. 8th? I know they talked to him the night before, how about his name or initials? I have the name of the girl in the red car (following the Jamison's) and the lady going to Wilburton hospital.

Regarding the receipt for gas: was the gas bought in Porum or in Porum Landing (on texanna road)? If it is Porum this would change the route completely and add 30 miles each way maybe more. You wouldn't take this route living in Sandy Bass Bay, you would go across the dam. How much gas was bought each day and were their any hotdogs purchased?

Side Notes;
Bow season in Oklahoma starts on Oct. 1st.
Probably not related but interesting; Missing Persons Tommy Easteps, truck was found by bow hunters near Wetumka Oklahoma with his wallet, $70 and cc's inside on Oct. 8th 2013. Tommy was last seen in Eufaula July 4th 2013 and in Holdenville on July 6th, both towns are on hwy 9. If you lived in Eufaula you would take hwy 9 to Panola. Easteps truck was found 35 miles South of Bristoi Oklahoma.

Zollie, have you been to Panola, yet?

 

[little726]

in a previous thread someone quotes p.c. of stating you could not open passenger side doors because of hillside? I have no idea how accurate that statement might be or how she would know that, clearly thats not the case in photo.

The truck had been pushed back from where it was in the beginning.

 

[zollie]

Little, no I have not made it yet; holidays and a little too cold