OK OK - Jamison Family; Truck, IDs and Dog Found Abandoned, 8 Oct 2009 - #11

[watcher9]

Okay, let's look at where the truck was found.

In this picture, we can see the bluff rising on the north side of the well site behind the truck. And there's a long, low ridge of rock along the edge of the road on the passenger side of the truck.

Looking on Google Earth, the spot I think best matches the photo above is marked by the yellow balloon. Can't zoom in any closer without losing all detail, but I'm pretty sure that's the same long, low ridge of rock to the left of the yellow balloon.

Zooming out to get a perspective of the area surrounding the well site, we can see the road leading up to it, the large flat clearing where the well once was, and there's the bluff along the north edge of the site.

We know that the final photo of Madyson was taken near rocks above the bluff, "maybe just a couple of hundred yards," according to Sheriff Beauchamp. This could be the line of whitish rocks seen to the north of the bluff, but there's another line of white rocks even further north that seems a better match for this distance estimate.

IMO, it just doesn't make sense that they would drive onto the well site, turn the truck around, drive back onto the beginning of the road, and park the truck there before climbing the bluff and walking to the spot where Madyson's photo was taken.

It seems much more likely that they arrived at the well site and parked near the bluff, climbed up it, walked to the rocks, took the photo, returned to the truck, and began to drive away from the well site. And then whatever happened to them happened.

Sheriff Beauchamp again, from the Disappeared transcript: "It seemed to me like they were leaving, and that someone came up that one-way road, and they stopped. Maybe they knew them, maybe not well. They stopped and talked to the person. From there, obviously, I don't know what happened."

So, there's one thing at least that IB and I agree on.

And here's the video of the drive up the mountain again, if you missed it earlier or just want to review. The rock ridge on the left side of the road can be seen at the 2:10 mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUJJ8E0EFSo

So throw all this into your brain stew and see what cooks up.

Thanks for reposting the video.
It seemed to be such a long road, but in reality it took less than 3 minutes to get there from the time the video started.

Looking at the overhead picture, it looks like the oil well site by the truck was a dead end. The videos at the beginning of this case showed the searchers on horseback and on four wheelers riding past the truck and I have always assumed that the road went on past the oil well site. Is this the same site that the painted truck was located?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

One thing that has been speculated on was that the missing briefcase may have held an additional $32,000 which was Sharilyn's share and the money under the seat was Bobby's. The perp may have taken the briefcase thinking he had the mother lode and didn't bother to look any further. And, the gun is also missing.

That would explain why the $32 k was there, but not why the truck was locked.

The gun missing could point to any scenario at this point, i.e. they took the gun into woods for protection and got lost, or murder suicide.

 

[OkieGranny]

How many people, if any, lived above where the truck stopped? No one? Was there just the water tank and the abandoned spray-painted truck...?

There's really nothing up there except the crest of the mountain. The water tank is gone now, as I understand it. Looking at satellite views, I couldn't find any trace of where it might have been.

Not that there are no trees, certainly, but, trivia time, "sans bois" means "without forest."

(Insert own "can't see the forest for the trees" Jamison-case-tie-in remark here.)

Smartypants! :floorlaugh:

Hmmm, I didn't realize the pic was taken ABOVE the bluff. If that's the case, then my thoughts that Bobby couldn't and/or wouldn't have just gone into those woods to meander (because of his bad back) is inaccurate. Above the bluff? That's some major hiking. Too bad there's no way to know for sure that he was with them when this pic was taken.

Yes, LE found the time, date, and GPS coordinates of that photo on the Blackberry. Here's mtrooper on Bobby's back problems:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5630153&postcount=220

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blondie in Spokane
Bobby Jamison suffered from a debilitating back injury which would prevent him from physically navigating/maneuvering the rough terrain.

I am not so sure it would prevent him from walking the terrain. As it was explained to me, Bobby had his good days and his bad days. He would probably be able to walk around, he would just be in extra pain the next day. I know at one point he was working on a tree farm and talked about owning/working at a landscaping business. Some of this being after the accident that caused the back injury.

Sounds like he could have done it, but might have been laid out flat the next day from the effects of that kind of exertion. It's hard to imagine him waiting down at the clearing while Sherilyn and Madyson climbed the bluff and walked off into the woods alone.

You are right Sherilyn did not voluntarily sign over her son and father was given custody by the court. I read every document on that site last night - the case ended with father getting full custody in 2009 and Sherilyn only had visitation if deemed okay by the father. Sherilyn started out as the plantiff looking for over $30,000 in child support and ended up losing custody. There were some references in the court filings where there were no documents to back up the rulings that I would have liked to see - but will not add any fuel to any fire or start any rumors which can not be verified. Father got full custody of son for 'safety reasons'.

ETA: Father was given emergency custody in June 2009.

Here is the link to the court filings/documents - it just worked for me so it is probably back up now: http://www.oscn.net/applications/oc...=caseGeneral&casemasterID=1560352&db=Oklahoma

Thank you for carrying that one across the finish line. Well done!

There is one thing that would argue against that. The car was locked.

Someone, in theory, could have blocked them, and ordered them out of the car at gunpoint. Why would he lock the car? The presumed perpetrator didn't steal anything that we know of and didn't search it well, or he would have found the $32 k.

We were just discussing locked/unlocked possibilities a page or two back. I still think anything is possible at this point.

Looking at the overhead picture, it looks like the oil well site by the truck was a dead end. The videos at the beginning of this case showed the searchers on horseback and on four wheelers riding past the truck and I have always assumed that the road went on past the oil well site. Is this the same site that the painted truck was located?

Yes, the painted truck is the large dark blur up near the bluff, just a little to the right of center.

 

[watcher9]

I can see them locking up the truck and taking the gun for protection if they were going for a hike across the property but would they have carried the briefcase with them also?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I can see them locking up the truck and taking the gun for protection if they were going for a hike across the property but would they have carried the briefcase with them also?

Do we know if they had a briefcase? Could it have been something like a tote bag that had other things in it?

If they did have the satchel, and if that is where the money, Sherilyn could wanted to carry it.

How would a crook know it was on them?

 

[Elainera]

I can see them locking up the truck and taking the gun for protection if they were going for a hike across the property but would they have carried the briefcase with them also?

Or planning to go for a hike, or just look around, or maybe Madyson needed to pee, and Bobby said, I'll stretch my back a little bit, and then they got apprehended by someone with ill intent. That would account for the truck being locked, and all the things and the dog left in so he doesn't run off.

 

[Pensfan]

Being just a bit jealous (yes lol) about all the theorizing on the McStay thread(s) (and more power to them), I thought I'd just jot down what forces may have opposed the Jamisons - who would want to do them harm, perhaps.

Little726 - who has my greatest respect thanks to the time she has put in on these threads - thinks it, perhaps, was someone playing on the "spirits" thing, offering to rid the Jamisons of this sort of plague.

So that's one. The whole drug thing would be another too. And so if they were killed, was it:

* deaths connected to hallucinations (or realities) of haunts & spirits - nefarious others taking advantage

* deaths connected with drugs, specifically meth - they were in San Bois to purchase or sell and they were caught out

* deaths connected with drugs also - but they stumbled onto a meth cooking or pot growing operation in the mountains

* deaths connected to enemies - real ones - made during time at Lake Eufaula: white supremacists and so on

* deaths connected to unknown aspects of family involvement or enemies made years before in OKC

What else might have been? Help me out here. If there's one thing I know about this case, it's that I'm always missing something.

And what do you guys think?

Add this one, please.

* There was an 11 page "hate letter" that Sherilyn wrote to Bobby that was found in the truck. 1 in 3 people with bipolar disorder try to or successfully commit suicide. Sherilyn's recent behavior had been abnormal. Sherilyn's gun was never found.

 

[Soulmagent]

That would explain why the $32 k was there, but not why the truck was locked.

The gun missing could point to any scenario at this point, i.e. they took the gun into woods for protection and got lost, or murder suicide.

Maybe the dog hit the lock button . Were they power locks?

 

[Mitch1]

About pulling Madyson out of school, here's a post by NS about that:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5345010&postcount=28



And one by mtrooper:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5347533&postcount=31



I'm working on info about the custody of Sherilyn's son, but the stupid OSCN website went down and I'll have to try again later. I can tell you that she did not voluntarily sign him over. Her ex-husband was awarded custody by the court.

Yep, I remember reading through the threads about why she was taken out of school, however my theory of them being alive and well is because of the coincidence that they took her out of school and she signed over custody of her son right before the disappearance-its all about timing for me I guess. I didn't get much from the court documents other than a "permanent, substantial and material change of conditions such that its in the best interest of the child" and that statement could mean a lot of things such as THEY ARE MOVING TO A PLACE REAL FAR AWAY -I could have missed it but I didn't see anything saying his father made an argument about her doing drugs or abusing her son.


http://www.oscn.net/applications/oc...=caseGeneral&casemasterID=1560352&db=Oklahoma

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Maybe the dog hit the lock button . Were they power locks?

That could explain it, what model was the truck?

 

[Mitch1]

Well again, interesting. Hadn't thought of that either.


Eff ME! Completely forgot about Sasquatch!! lol

They had to get out of the vehicle for SOME reason. "Holy ****, honey! I swear just saw an 8 foot tall upright hairy hominid creature lumbering along... let's follow it!."

(is this wrong? I got a rare cancer at 38 and gallows humor is how I deal with anything.)

No, well, not unless it came from a negative place and it doesn't read that way at all. I thought it was hilarious!

 

[Mapman]

If the Jamisons were murdered, it seems to me like it would be unlikely that the perp would have been anyone known as an enemy of the Jamisons. It seems unlikely that the Jamisons would have told any of their enemies where they were going, and it also seems unlikely that an enemy would have a chance encounter with the Jamisons so far in the wilderness. I suppose that someone could have followed the Jamisons from their home to the wilderness tract without being seen by anyone, but this seems unlikely. It seems to me that if the Jamisons were murdered it was either by someone who they encountered by chance, or it was a murder suicide. It also seems like the decision to commit the murders or murders/suicide would probably have been made after they all left the well location.

It is unlikelhy that someone could have killed all three of the Jamisons at the well location without leaving signs of the frenzy. It is also difficult to see why the hypothetical killer would kill them at the well location then load them into a vehicle and transport them to another remote location to dump them - the chances of being seen by someone or leaving dna evidence of the murders in his vehicle would have been very high.

If the Jamisons encountered an apparently friendly stranger at the well location who offered to show them around they might have locked up their vehicle and hopped into the other vehicle on their own accord for a short tour. Why would the stranger decide to kill them? Maybe Mrs Jamison had her satchel and the stranger learned that it contained money. I suppose they could have stopped to rest or turn around at the campsite where the remains were found. While they were there the stranger could have murdered them and taken the satchel. Unless the Jamisons had also told the stranger that there was more money in the truck, there would have been no reason for the killer to risk being seen by returning to the truck to see if there was more money to be found.

I can't think of a logical murder/suicide scenario, but it wouldn't necessarily have to be logical given the apparent mental problems the Jamison family was dealing with.

It doesn't seem likely to me that Mrs Jamison would have jumped out of their truck with her satchel and then was dumb enough to tell a stranger that she had a bag full of money. Other than the money I also can't see any reason why a stranger would decide to murder the family. Although murder or murder/suicide is still a possibility I'm still thinking that they most likely died of exposure.

 

[OkieGranny]

I'm working on a comprehensive timeline of anything with even a remote possibility of being connected to this case. Am still searching for certain events that I know happened but can't yet pin down to a specific date. Or at least an approximate date.

Does anyone think we need a Jamison thread in timeline/media forum? I do. Do we need to ask a mod to start one?

 

[OkieGranny]

So I was tossing and turning, trying to get some sleep because we have a busy day ahead starting bright and early in the morning, when I had a light bulb moment. Not a fully-formed theory yet, but I need to figure out some details before deciding if this possible theory would even make sense.

I'm hoping someone here will be able to help me out with some questions:

1. We have info on the phone calls to and from Bobby's phone on the critical days, some partial info on the home phone, and Sherilyn apparently didn't use her phone at all after October 5. But what about texts? Were they not texting at all? Or have we just not had any access to that particular info?

2. Somebody talk to me about go-phones or burner phones or whatever kind of phones you might use if you were, say, plotting a murder or three. How does it work? Do you just buy one off the shelf and it's good to go? Or do you have to give a name and show some ID? Is there any way to tell from a phone record that calls were placed to or received from one of these phones? Like certain prefixes, maybe? What other info, like location, might show up on a phone record?

TIA for any help with this. And now I'm fftobed:

 

[Cuoco7]

The att prepaid phones still have detailed records that show date time and number called. Even though you don't receive a bill, the owner can retrieve these by a user acct online. Not sure what service this is referencing, but imoo I would think the companies would have similar access.

 

[Dallen]

Been thinking about this case since I got up in the wee hours this morning, and today my vote goes... 50% murder, 25% murder-suicide, 25% lost. Tomorrow it may change

 

[OkieGranny]

Well, my last post sounded a little hysterical. You know when you wake up in the middle of the night with a brilliant idea, and then you go back to sleep and when you wake up in the morning, you can't remember what it was? I was afraid that would happen and couldn't go back to sleep until I got it written down first, lol.

Spent all of last evening working on this timeline, digging up court cases and all kinds of different events before and after this family went missing. A list of potential suspects who'd been discussed as possibilities by the veterans of this case back in the earlier threads had been filed away in my head, and little tidbits of info I picked up here and there while researching various items on the timeline percolated around in my brain until something finally clicked and now I'm thinking hard about the only two members of Bobby and Sherilyn's extended families who I haven't been able to cross of my list of suspects yet.

So basically what I'm trying to figure out is if either of these two people might have made or received any of those calls on the Jamisons' phone records, because there were several numbers that could't be identified, as far as I know. I don't know where Sherilyn's phone is now but Bobby's allegedly wound up in a swimming pool. If someone deletes texts from a phone, can they still be retrieved somehow? I'm wondering how thoroughly the cell phones were checked for texts before they were released from LE custody.

 

[geevee]

Well, my last post sounded a little hysterical. You know when you wake up in the middle of the night with a brilliant idea, and then you go back to sleep and when you wake up in the morning, you can't remember what it was? I was afraid that would happen and couldn't go back to sleep until I got it written down first, lol.

Spent all of last evening working on this timeline, digging up court cases and all kinds of different events before and after this family went missing. A list of potential suspects who'd been discussed as possibilities by the veterans of this case back in the earlier threads had been filed away in my head, and little tidbits of info I picked up here and there while researching various items on the timeline percolated around in my brain until something finally clicked and now I'm thinking hard about the only two members of Bobby and Sherilyn's extended families who I haven't been able to cross of my list of suspects yet.

So basically what I'm trying to figure out is if either of these two people might have made or received any of those calls on the Jamisons' phone records, because there were several numbers that could't be identified, as far as I know. I don't know where Sherilyn's phone is now but Bobby's allegedly wound up in a swimming pool. If someone deletes texts from a phone, can they still be retrieved somehow? I'm wondering how thoroughly the cell phones were checked for texts before they were released from LE custody.

In the Alexander/Arias case (murder in 2008), there was an enormous amount of texts between the two, there was legal wrangling initially because at that time the only way to record them as evidence was to view each on the phone and take pictures of them. But technology evolved by the time of trial so that they could get all (or most) of the texts from the phone company (Joey Citizen testified for Verizon about how long texts remain on their servers and other details). For deleted texts I believe he said there was a certain amount of time that they could be retrieved from their servers, in this case it was too late to get the last few that apparently Arias deleted after the murder. If they hadn't looked for texts after the Jamison's went missing, they may not exists on the phone company servers any longer, I really don't know how long they're kept these days.

I think you're doing wonderful work on this case, OkieGranny.

 

[OkieGranny]

Spent Thursday with the in-laws so we took a road trip to northeastern Oklahoma today to have a second Thanksgiving dinner with my own extended family. It's been a really good day.

Up the Turner Turnpike and then down again on the way back, when I saw the sign for the Bristow exit, I couldn't help looking to the southeast toward Latimer County and wondering what the hell happened down there.

Hope to have that timeline ready in the next day or two, but this might be an early night cuz I'm pretty beat. Really interesting perspective, seeing so many things we've been hearing about and talking about put into context. Am thinking about the possible cumulative effects of all these things happening in such swift succession.

 

[Snoopster]

Crap! I just lost my post. Perhaps that's a message to me?

I will brave posting the gist of it.

The key thing posted over the past couple of days that affected my thinking on this case was that the Jamisons were headed away from the well site. If someone was headed "up" the road, causing them to pull up, then they would have have had to back up in order to allow the other vehicle to turn around.

So, that implies to me that they were following another vehicle. If the other vehicle pulled up short, what would the Jamisons have thought? How would they have reacted?

I believe this is key to the case.

If they weren't following another vehicle, then this implies that they were "seeing things" (i.e. hallucinations)

What do the rest of you think?

Regarding the dog, Mazie, she wasn't very large, but would you open the door to a vehicle, with the thought to lock it, if there was a dog in it? Wouldn't you assume that the dog would deter any people with ill intent?

I am still grappling with the fact that the vehicle was locked.