OK OK - Jamison Family; Truck, IDs, money, & dog found abandoned, Oct 2009 - #2

[mtrooper]

The sheriffs office has received a few gps coordinates of places to check for the remains. They have plotted them out and are going to go check them out. Other than that they are tracking down leads as they come in. Other than that however, not much going on.

 

[mtrooper]

If anyone gets a chance, could you try to find information on Sherilyn's ex-husband Billy Mangum. I have a bad feeling about him (well actually I have more than a bad feeling but I don't really want to post it publicly), something about the thirty some thousand that they owed in back child support. The only thing I could really find was a DUI. And that these were his possible previous residences:
OKLAHOMA CITY, OK
MOORE, OK
COOKSON, OK
MIDLAND, TX
LA MARQUE, TX
HOUSTON, TX
YUKON, OK
HITCHCOCK, TX

 

[NSHENOLD]

if anyone gets a chance, could you try to find information on sherilyn's ex-husband billy mangum. I have a bad feeling about him (well actually i have more than a bad feeling but i don't really want to post it publicly), something about the thirty some thousand that they owed in back child support. The only thing i could really find was a dui. And that these were his possible previous residences:
Oklahoma city, ok
moore, ok
cookson, ok
midland, tx
la marque, tx
houston, tx
yukon, ok
hitchcock, tx

i can say that he has lived in all of these places. The only one im not sure of is cookson, oklahoma

 

[mtrooper]

Niki, I love your picture! Good to see you up and about this early in the A.M.

 

[NSHENOLD]

niki, i love your picture! Good to see you up and about this early in the a.m.

thanks- i thought it was appropriate- its me and sherilyn.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

There are so many missing people right now that it's hard to keep any case on the front of the board. So I am just posting to say that you guys are doing tremendous work and bumping this family back to the front.

 

[mtrooper]

So, for all you legal eagles out there....I see that Jack has won the right to be the Personal representative for Bobby Sr. estate....So now what? Does the money still go into a trust for Madyson?....OH MY GOD>>>> I just re-read the simultaneous death clause in his will... "5.1 In the event that any beneficiary hereof and I both shall die in a common disaster or accident, or under such circumstances as make it impossible or difficult to determine who died first, then it shall be conclusively deemed that such beneficiary did not survive me.

OH MY. I guess the circumstances would definitely make it impossible or difficult to determine who died first. So I guess it all goes to Jack and Amos.

 

[little726]

So, for all you legal eagles out there....I see that Jack has won the right to be the Personal representative for Bobby Sr. estate....So now what? Does the money still go into a trust for Madyson?....OH MY GOD>>>> I just re-read the simultaneous death clause in his will... "5.1 In the event that any beneficiary hereof and I both shall die in a common disaster or accident, or under such circumstances as make it impossible or difficult to determine who died first, then it shall be conclusively deemed that such beneficiary did not survive me.

OH MY. I guess the circumstances would definitely make it impossible or difficult to determine who died first. So I guess it all goes to Jack and Amos.

You got it, mtrooper!!!

 

[webrocket]

You got it, mtrooper!!!

Not exactly. Little Stormy has to be dead in order for that clause to kick in. So Jack needs a body or has to wait however long it takes under Oklahoma law to declare her dead. If found dead, then LE would have to estimate the date of death. If declared dead, it would probably revert to the date of her disappearance.

 

[mtrooper]

So who makes sure that Madysons best interests are taken into consideration until it has been 7 years or she has been found? Can the courts force Jack to put her$$ into a trust? Or at least make sure it isn't spent.

 

[mtrooper]

I am not so sure of that...look at page 8 of this document:

"SECTION 5. EVIDENCE OF DEATH OR STATUS. In addition to the rules of
evidence in courts of general jurisdiction, the following rules relating to a determination of death
and status apply:
(1) Death occurs when an individual [is determined to be dead under the Uniform
Determination of Death Act] [has sustained either (1) irreversible cessation of circulatory and respiratory functions or (2) irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem. A determination of death must be made in accordance with accepted medical
standards].
(2) A certified or authenticated copy of a death certificate purporting to be issued
by an official or agency of the place where the death purportedly occurred is prima facie
evidence of the fact, place, date, and time of death and the identity of the decedent.
(3) A certified or authenticated copy of any record or report of a governmental agency, domestic or foreign, that an individual is missing, detained, dead, or alive is prima facie evidence of the status and of the dates, circumstances, and places disclosed by the record or report.
(4) In the absence of prima facie evidence of death under paragraph (2) or (3), the
fact of death may be established by clear and convincing evidence, including circumstantial evidence.
(5) An individual whose death is not established under the preceding paragraphs
9 who is absent for a continuous period of five years, during which he [or she] has not been heard from, and whose absence is not satisfactorily explained after diligent search or inquiry, is presumed to be dead. His [or her] death is presumed to have occurred at the end of the period unless there is sufficient evidence for determining that death occurred earlier.

http://www.law.upenn.edu/bll/archives/ulc/usda/final_1993.pdf

 

[webrocket]

So who makes sure that Madysons best interests are taken into consideration until it has been 7 years or she has been found? Can the courts force Jack to put her$$ into a trust? Or at least make sure it isn't spent.

I would think it should be held either in trust or by the surrogate's court itself. Who knows what they do out there.

 

[Sillybilly]

"5.1 In the event that any beneficiary hereof and I both shall die in a common disaster or accident, or under such circumstances as make it impossible or difficult to determine who died first, then it shall be conclusively deemed that such beneficiary did not survive me.

OH MY. I guess the circumstances would definitely make it impossible or difficult to determine who died first. So I guess it all goes to Jack and Amos.

The key word there is "common" ... no beneficiary died in a common disaster or accident at the same time as Bobby Sr (i.e. plane crash where he and Stormy were killed, etc.)

 

[mtrooper]

I hate legal jargin, too confusing. I know a good probate lawyer, I will see if he can clairify things for us. I would hate to assume somthing and make an out of myself. But I am thinking she has 4 years to reappear before he can legally do anything with the left overs of the estate.

 

[Sillybilly]

(5) An individual whose death is not established under the preceding paragraphs
9 who is absent for a continuous period of five years, during which he [or she] has not been heard from, and whose absence is not satisfactorily explained after diligent search or inquiry, is presumed to be dead. His [or her] death is presumed to have occurred at the end of the period unless there is sufficient evidence for determining that death occurred earlier.

I interpret this as the paragraph that would apply moreso to Stormy ... presumed dead after 5 years. Unless Jack has extraordinary pull, I can't see any court setting this requirement aside.

ETA: Sorry mtrooper ... in re-reading that, it has to be absolutely the most convoluted thing I've ever seen. The two paragraphs seem to contradict each other.

 

[little726]

I'd really like to know if any LE is looking into this WILL business. But being Oklahoma, we may never know.

 

[wanttohelp]

you guys may have mentioned this before but wanted through out while listening to a show today and discussing the mcstays a guest stating them possibly being in witness protection had been ruled out and everyone commented they hadnt thought of that. has it been ruled out for this family?

 

[webrocket]

I interpret this as the paragraph that would apply moreso to Stormy ... presumed dead after 5 years. Unless Jack has extraordinary pull, I can't see any court setting this requirement aside.

ETA: Sorry mtrooper ... in re-reading that, it has to be absolutely the most convoluted thing I've ever seen. The two paragraphs seem to contradict each other.

The entirety of section 5 only addresses evidence of death.

paragraph one defines death.
paragraph two is the best evidence of death.
paragraph 3 sets forth what substitute evidence is admissible to determine whether someone is dead or alive. (I think of the World Trade Center when I think of reports of missing people)
paragraph 4 sets forth the standard of proof of death, when there is no evidence under paragraphs 2 or 3; and
paragraph 5 sets forth the default provision of missing 5 years.

 

[Sillybilly]

Here's my last try at understanding this thing:

Section 5 deals with "evidence of death or status" (status being dead, missing, etc).

Para 1 and 2 apply only to the status of death

Para 3 deals with evidence of that status (i.e. whether dead, missing, etc)

Para 4, under this paragraph, because it is impossible to provide evidence of Stormy's status as dead, the only evidence that can be provided is that her status is "missing" ... ... in which case:

Para 5 establishes that after evidence has been provided that her status is "missing", she can then be presumed dead after 5 years missing.

Whew ... time for a stiff one i think

All MOO

 

[mtrooper]

you guys may have mentioned this before but wanted through out while listening to a show today and discussing the mcstays a guest stating them possibly being in witness protection had been ruled out and everyone commented they hadnt thought of that. has it been ruled out for this family?

I wanted to let you know that I have a call in on this one. Already spoke with the Sheriff who reassured me that this was not the case, but I have a call into someone higher on the federal food chain looking into it. I will let you all know when I hear back.