OK OK - Jamison Family; Truck, IDs, money, & dog found abandoned, Oct 2009 - #7

[C-Bar]

I wonder if a what do you call them?Behaviorist or people that can tell you someones attitude by body language has examined the photo??My opinion of the photo is,I just don"t know!Sure wish someone with the expertise would tell us WTF!!

 

[cactsbob]

The photo should have date / time information on it since it is digital. Does anyone have this information to share?

 

[little726]

I'm not sure about that, little. What makes you think this?

When I look at that photo, the scenario that comes to my mind is that Madyson has just been told the family is planning to move up there, and she is expressing her disdain for that idea. She has that "I don't wanna" look about her to me. This of course is just my opinion, but it's what I get from the photo. Either that or she's been told she needs to put on her coat, and she doesn't wanna.

Jt, we already know there was an 8-10 days between the last time the Jamisons were seen and the truck found. Anyone, not just the perp, could have done something with the truck.

I think the perp took the phone and Madyson to another location, took the photo, went home and did his thing with the computer, then took the camera back to the truck and plugged it in.

On a side note, I always make sure my phone is charged before leaving home. I don't even keep the adapter in my truck. I'm sure I'm not the only one who does this.

Also, the Jamisons phone was plugged into the cigarette lighter. Will the phone charge without the key turned on?

 

[Oriah]

Popping in again VERY quickly, just to make note that I read back through quite a few of teh last pages and we are rehashing info that has either already been clarified, anr is still up for debate. Maybe we could try to stop going over what has already been clarified (such as the time stamp on the pic) and take a second look at what has NOT been clarified.
Just a thought.
Gotta go, sorry folks- been extremely busy lately. Will be back as soon as posible. Hope ya'll are having a good holiday season.
Oriah

 

[wfgodot]

B-b-but, nothing's clear to me!

 

[mtrooper]

There were three pictures taken on the black berry phone. The picture of Madyson (based on the GPS coordinates from the phone) was taken 100yds or so up a large hill/cliff area. The first 2 pictures were of well site signs that were less than a mile or so from where the truck was found. They were both taken at 12:53 on 10/08/2009. The picture of Madyson was taken at 14:47 on 10/08. I am not sure if they took the first set of pictures before or after they spoke with the neighbor, but I would venture to guess before, IMOO (based on locations). So my thoughts go somthing like this...They stop take the pictures (12:53) then stop by the neighbors, chat for about a half hour, then go up to the site (1:30ish) walk around, spray paint the truck, collect some rocks (evidenced by the large rocks found in the back of the truck) It was a beautiful day, no coat needed. They or someone takes the picture of Madyson. (my only catch here is that if I took that picture as a parent, I would either delete it or try for a better pose. All the other pictures they have of Madyson she is looking at the camera and smiling. And they have all day why keep that one if you could take another? I am not convinced that it was Bobby or Sherilyn that took the picture...I could almost see it that the picture was taken as proof that Madyson was alive and well (kidnapping? more likely a hit IMO) I think they were leaving the site when they were ambushed (for lack of a better word). They forced them out at gun point, seperated Bobby and Sherilynn from Madyson. Not sure why they would make the poor girl walk that far just to get a photo of her showing she was alive, seems like a waste of time. Took Bobby and Sherilynn and disposed of them. That is my best guess. But on the other side of the coin, if this was for the estate, why would you leave the only person alive that you needed dead? I hate this case. As far as the foot prints go, the only thing I can say is it rained 2.3 inches the 5 days before they went up there. So the clay was wet. I am not sure about weight disbursement, if her feet would sink more even though she only weighs 50# because she had smaller feet, versus Bobby at 170#, but with much larger feet. Who knows.

 

[NotPenny'sBoat]

Re: the photo of Madyson, my impression was that she was in mid-sentence when it was snapped. Her body is facing the person taking the photo, but twisted off to the side to look at the person she's talking to. The more I look at it, the more I think that she's not actually frightened, just cold and in mid-sentence. WHY is she cold and in this pose? Why is she not wearing her jacket? Why are her clothes so ill-fitting? In other photos of Madyson, she's wearing cute clothes that fit her properly. When I first saw the photo, the clothes were what rang alarm bells with me.

 

[NotPenny'sBoat]

There were three pictures taken on the black berry phone. The picture of Madyson (based on the GPS coordinates from the phone) was taken 100yds or so up a large hill/cliff area. The first 2 pictures were of well site signs that were less than a mile or so from where the truck was found. They were both taken at 12:53 on 10/08/2009. The picture of Madyson was taken at 14:47 on 10/08. I am not sure if they took the first set of pictures before or after they spoke with the neighbor, but I would venture to guess before, IMOO (based on locations). So my thoughts go somthing like this...They stop take the pictures (12:53) then stop by the neighbors, chat for about a half hour, then go up to the site (1:30ish) walk around, spray paint the truck, collect some rocks (evidenced by the large rocks found in the back of the truck) It was a beautiful day, no coat needed. They or someone takes the picture of Madyson. (my only catch here is that if I took that picture as a parent, I would either delete it or try for a better pose. All the other pictures they have of Madyson she is looking at the camera and smiling. And they have all day why keep that one if you could take another? I am not convinced that it was Bobby or Sherilyn that took the picture...I could almost see it that the picture was taken as proof that Madyson was alive and well (kidnapping? more likely a hit IMO) I think they were leaving the site when they were ambushed (for lack of a better word). They forced them out at gun point, seperated Bobby and Sherilynn from Madyson. Not sure why they would make the poor girl walk that far just to get a photo of her showing she was alive, seems like a waste of time. Took Bobby and Sherilynn and disposed of them. That is my best guess. But on the other side of the coin, if this was for the estate, why would you leave the only person alive that you needed dead? I hate this case. As far as the foot prints go, the only thing I can say is it rained 2.3 inches the 5 days before they went up there. So the clay was wet. I am not sure about weight disbursement, if her feet would sink more even though she only weighs 50# because she had smaller feet, versus Bobby at 170#, but with much larger feet. Who knows.

Thanks so much for that info! If it was a nice day, no coat needed, then that definitely changes my opinion about the photo and her crossed arms...can we find out somehow what the temperature was that day at that time?

The only thing that puzzles me about a photo of Madyson for ransom: why would they put the phone back in the truck (on the charger, no less)? I'm not sure it would be clear to anyone that it was a kidnapping for ransom case just by that photo of Madyson alone. A note, or posing her with masked kidnappers, or taking photos and then sending them to whomever they wanted to collect from would be more effective....just thinking off the top of my head.

 

[little726]

Thanks so much for that info! If it was a nice day, no coat needed, then that definitely changes my opinion about the photo and her crossed arms...can we find out somehow what the temperature was that day at that time?

The only thing that puzzles me about a photo of Madyson for ransom: why would they put the phone back in the truck (on the charger, no less)? I'm not sure it would be clear to anyone that it was a kidnapping for ransom case just by that photo of Madyson alone. A note, or posing her with masked kidnappers, or taking photos and then sending them to whomever they wanted to collect from would be more effective....just thinking off the top of my head.

Maybe the photo WAS sent to someone. Like Starlet! That could be why they are very hush, hush about the whole thing.

 

[cactsbob]

Popping in again VERY quickly, just to make note that I read back through quite a few of teh last pages and we are rehashing info that has either already been clarified, anr is still up for debate. Maybe we could try to stop going over what has already been clarified (such as the time stamp on the pic) and take a second look at what has NOT been clarified.
Just a thought.
Gotta go, sorry folks- been extremely busy lately. Will be back as soon as posible. Hope ya'll are having a good holiday season.
Oriah

Sorry, I have just joined the conversation and was just asking for information that I had not yet seen. Thankfully, mtrooper took the few seconds required to answer my question.

If someone asks me a question that I know the answer to I am more than happy to answer that question. It is usually more considerate (and considerably faster) then telling them that I've already answered that question and that they need to look for the answer somewhere else.

 

[mtrooper]

Here is a link to Sarx started (thanks!!)
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/blog.php?b=876

weather for that day in McAlester (31 miles W of Wilburton): High of 86 Low of 59. When 1st photos were taken it was 80.1 degrees (at 12:53) and overcast, 84.9 at 2:53pm.


weather for that day in Stigler (42 miles NNE of Wilburton): High of 86 Low of 57
80.6 degrees at 12:55, and 86 degrees at 2:55pm.

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KMLC/2009/10/8/DailyHistory.html

I agree it is not likely that it was a kidnapping, I was thinking more of a proof of life if it was a hit. Still does not explain why they would put it back in the truck on the charger. I know for my vehicle it depends on what ligher outlet you use as to if the power remains on after the truck is shut off. But I am going out on a limb here....There is NO way my cell phone would stay charged for 8 days. And it being a blackberry phone, that is constantly sending and receiving data (they are called push notifications), I highly doubt the battery would have lasted. The Sheriff was able to use the phone to see phone numbers and such when the truck was found. I will have to double check to see if the phone was charged or if he had to let it charge (BIIRC it was charged).

Side note, I am wondering if she was winded and hot (explaining the redish cheeks and possible crossed arms and leaning on the rock). I am not sure that the shirt is terribly small on her, I just think her pants had fallen down and her shoulders were shrugged bringing it up further.

 

[wfgodot]

Thanks mtrooper, that sarx-provided post ought to be regularly inserted amidst our queryings, containing, as it does, the Sacred Coords for the Truck ("35.006097,-95.200653"), phone call records, and court-related info.

Here's sarx again, second time in a row: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/blog.php?b=876

 

[sarx]

Speaking of which, are there any facts that I have missed that need to go onto there? Just let me know.

 

[sarx]

Sorry, I have just joined the conversation and was just asking for information that I had not yet seen. Thankfully, mtrooper took the few seconds required to answer my question.

If someone asks me a question that I know the answer to I am more than happy to answer that question. It is usually more considerate (and considerably faster) then telling them that I've already answered that question and that they need to look for the answer somewhere else.

I can see your point, but it is also helpful to see it from the other side. Some have spent literally hundreds of hours on a case and have repeated things to death and just can't handle repeating it one more time, I've been there, I understand the feeling.

 

[NotPenny'sBoat]

Here is a link to Sarx started (thanks!!)
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/blog.php?b=876

weather for that day in McAlester (31 miles W of Wilburton): High of 86 Low of 59. When 1st photos were taken it was 80.1 degrees (at 12:53) and overcast, 84.9 at 2:53pm.


weather for that day in Stigler (42 miles NNE of Wilburton): High of 86 Low of 57
80.6 degrees at 12:55, and 86 degrees at 2:55pm.

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KMLC/2009/10/8/DailyHistory.html

I agree it is not likely that it was a kidnapping, I was thinking more of a proof of life if it was a hit. Still does not explain why they would put it back in the truck on the charger. I know for my vehicle it depends on what ligher outlet you use as to if the power remains on after the truck is shut off. But I am going out on a limb here....There is NO way my cell phone would stay charged for 8 days. And it being a blackberry phone, that is constantly sending and receiving data (they are called push notifications), I highly doubt the battery would have lasted. The Sheriff was able to use the phone to see phone numbers and such when the truck was found. I will have to double check to see if the phone was charged or if he had to let it charge (BIIRC it was charged).

Side note, I am wondering if she was winded and hot (explaining the redish cheeks and possible crossed arms and leaning on the rock). I am not sure that the shirt is terribly small on her, I just think her pants had fallen down and her shoulders were shrugged bringing it up further.

Thanks for that, mtrooper. Definitely no need for a coat. I agree with the person who said it would be interesting to see what a body language expert says about the photo. All I know is that crossed arms is a defensive stance...a person does that when they're trying to keep others out. I also agree that perhaps her pants were just too big. The photo could be quite innocent, after all: "Let's get a quick shot of Madyson on the mountain before we go!" and that's all.

I'm also sorry if I've asked questions that have been answered a million times...I know how frustrating that must be.

 

[cactsbob]

I can see your point, but it is also helpful to see it from the other side. Some have spent literally hundreds of hours on a case and have repeated things to death and just can't handle repeating it one more time, I've been there, I understand the feeling.

I know that people get tired of answering questions. I just don't understand why it is such a burden. I don't have this problem. If I know the answer I will answer the question. It only takes a second to do and can be helpful. If a person doesn't want to answer the question then don't. No need for complaints about people asking questions.

A search on this thread didn't return the information before mtrooper was kind enough to answer the question. The sarx information is very helpful. But, when I click on the sarx url listed it tells me that I don't have permission to view that page.

Maybe there should be a thread for impatient people who already know the answers and a thread for those like me who just joined.

 

[sarx]

I know that people get tired of answering questions. I just don't understand why it is such a burden. I don't have this problem. If I know the answer I will answer the question. It only takes a second to do and can be helpful. If a person doesn't want to answer the question then don't. No need for complaints about people asking questions.

A search on this thread didn't return the information before mtrooper was kind enough to answer the question. The sarx information is very helpful. But, when I click on the sarx url listed it tells me that I don't have permission to view that page.

Maybe there should be a thread for impatient people who already know the answers and a thread for those like me who just joined.

Interesting that you can't access it, perhaps because you are new without many posts.

I don't know how to put this, so I will just say it. If I was only having to re-hash information on one thread, on one forum, on one topic, with one department it would be no big deal, but for some of us anyways, we are on multiple threads on here and are also actively working cases with LE, it gets cumbersome if you know what I mean. One case, no biggy, repeating things on 6 cases a lot more tedious. Repeating things on 6 cases while also working cases in the field tends to equal very short fuses. Sorry if it was taken out on you, but please understand that sometimes people are just overloaded and it can be really frustrating when a person comes in and says "just coming in, so catch me up" (not saying that you did just speaking in general terms). When most have taken the time to read all the back posts it's kind of irritating at least for me personally. Now if a person goes through and reads everything and then asks a question, totally different. Ok, sorry off my soabox.

 

[justthinkin]

Jt, we already know there was an 8-10 days between the last time the Jamisons were seen and the truck found. Anyone, not just the perp, could have done something with the truck.

I think the perp took the phone and Madyson to another location, took the photo, went home and did his thing with the computer, then took the camera back to the truck and plugged it in.

On a side note, I always make sure my phone is charged before leaving home. I don't even keep the adapter in my truck. I'm sure I'm not the only one who does this.

Also, the Jamisons phone was plugged into the cigarette lighter. Will the phone charge without the key turned on?

I have to disagree. I think if Madyson had been taken away from her parents by a non-family perp or even if her parents were held while the photo was taken, I think we would see a very different expression, forlorn and worried come to mind, tears in her eyes, and I see nothing to suggest that in the least.

Trying to put myself in the shoes of a perp who would even take a picture of the child for what purpose I can't even imagine, meaning the picture in question, I'm at a complete loss.

I don't know, it just doesn't make any sense to me that a perp would take that particular picture.

Besides Madyson having that "I don't wanna" look, she seems comfortable to me, as would be expected if one of her parents took the photo in question. Perhaps comfortable isn't the right word, but there is a certain comfort level one takes on when being photographed by family as opposed to being photographed by a stranger if the person in question is aware that they are being photographed.

If Madyson were afraid, the natural response would be to cross the arms across the chest, but with both hands on top of the arms, a sign of self-protection

If everyone will arrange their arms as Madyson has hers in the photo, the very act of positioning arms in such placement I believe will draw forth certain feelings. Please do test this, and let me know what feelings come to you because when I did it it felt like my body was relaying defiance to my mind.

When crossing my arms with both hands on top of my arms, very different feelings came up, protective feelings or feelings of being cold.

If I'm mad at someone I'm talking to, my arms go to the same position that Madyson is displaying in the photo. I'm just trying to say Madyson is not in a defensive stance, but an offensive one. And I don't think anyone who felt any danger or threat would strike that particular arm pose.
JMO as usual, and degreeless ones at that. LOL. Being an INTJ what I lack in degrees, I try to make up for in logic.

 

[wfgodot]

Having taught for 20 years, I'm used to answering questions on any- and everything, even if it's something we (or the class) have just been over. Ain't no big thang.

Unfortunately, here, I myself have more questions than answers, which mostly renders this fact moot!

 

[cactsbob]

I will continue to ask questions. If it offends someone, so be it. It is not intended to offend anyone.

I did read through all of the threads. The way the threads are structured it is difficult to do searches because each thread has to be searched individually with each permutation of a good search string.

Often, it is much quicker to just ask. But, it seems that some readers are not in to helping newbies.