OK OK - Lauria Bible, 16, & Ashley Freeman, 16, Welch, 30 December 1999 *ARREST*

[Oriah]

Hello All~

I was wondering if anyone knew:
1) if ballistics indicated one or more firearms used in the murders of the Freemans?
2) what accelerant was used in the fire?

Hi Ruflossn,
Thanks for coming in here! I have not been able to find ballistics other than the aforementioned generic 'shotgun'. I do know that only one type of ammunition was identified.
I believe (although I need to go back and find this in the report) that the accelerant was identified as fuel oil 1- or at least that's how we discerne with accelerant dogs. So likely kerosene, range oil, etc? I have concerns about the method used to determine this though- and like you- I think it is key to motive, opportunity, timing, flashpoint, evidence recovery....the list goes on and on. Any digging of this info and the methods used to determine it much appreciated!
Thanks.

 

[Ruflossn]

Hi everyone ..Hi Flossie...
I am trying to catch up and read all the post before I pipe in..so bear with me. I just wanted yall to know I did get my PM and I will follow through..

HI 99 ~
Good to see you. Thanks for looking at this case. It is a sad one. (Arent they all) I look forward to your thoughts.

Flossie

 

[Ruflossn]

Though neither Shane nor his parents were “religiously inclined,” as Powell puts it, Shane’s grandmother Celesta Chandler was a dedicated Jehovah’s Witness.

xxxxxxx

Didn't the house Taylor Placker & family live in belong to a "Chandler"

The home the Placker family lived in was owned by a "Chancey". IIRC.

 

[Ruflossn]

Hi Ruflossn,
Thanks for coming in here! My pleasure. I have not been able to find ballistics other than the aforementioned generic 'shotgun'. I do know that only one type of ammunition was identified.
I believe (although I need to go back and find this in the report) that the accelerant was identified as fuel oil 1- or at least that's how we discerne with accelerant dogs. So likely kerosene, range oil, etc? I have concerns about the method used to determine this though- and like you- I think it is key to motive, opportunity, timing, flashpoint, evidence recovery....the list goes on and on. Any digging of this info and the methods used to determine it much appreciated!
Thanks.

My main interest in the studying of crime comes from the profiling aspect. I would like to know more so that the type of suspect pool could be narrowed down. These are my thoughts on the offender(s) -

1) Knew the family.
2) Has a criminal record. (Probably drugs, robbery, assault/murder)
3) Familiar with the local area.
4) Familiar with the fact that drugs and money would be found on the property.
5) May have been surprised to learn that there were 2 teenage girls at the residence. Probably was expecting to have to silence one girl not 2.
6) Drives a pick up.
7) Regular routine would include being up early morning.

Importance of the acclerant - I would like to know if the acclerant was something that was found on site. If so, setting the fire was probably not planned. It may have been a reaction to the robbery getting out of hand. (escalating into murders)

Firearm - one type of firearm used, usually indicates one offender. It would have to be someone with quite a lot of gumption to control the scene with one firearm and 4 victims.

 

[Ruflossn]

Lauria Bible and Ashley Freeman - Crimeshots© True Crime Forums

Warning: graphic details


Scroll down the the description of Danny's body. This is overkill.

I am not sure if the opinion of overkill is warranted.
From what I can gather, there was really one antemurder wound, the broken collar bone and the left jaw was fractured. The collar bone was probably fractured during the scuffle with the offender and the jaw bone a result of the shot gun blast. The hands, leg and other absent body parts were most likely caused from the fire and / or animal activity. Often times, animals will cause damage to a body that has been left in the elements. Even though, this body had only been left out for 24 hours, I believe the offender only shot Danny. The other damage was most likely a combination of fire and animal activity. I find it very endearing the family dog was laying next to Danny's body. He may have laid there out of a protective nature. So sad.

 

[Ruflossn]

There are photos of both the trailer and the yard- media has a couple shots of the trailer, and shots of both are in the LE file. I will try to find the media link.
I am not any relation to the girls. Just SAR who took an interest after working several cases in OK that involved Oklahoma LE.
Thanks for jumping on the thread!

Unbelievable that LE did not discover Danny's body.
I usually side with LE when it comes to issues within a crime but, not finding a body within a crime scene is unacceptable and unbelievable! I am appalled.

 

[GetSmart]

I find the fact that the crime scene was released so early a BIG head scratcher ..That in itself would give a Defense Attorney a hay day !!
I just get such an odd feeling about that, along with the statement about

“Tons of guns” also were found in the house, recalls Lorene Bible, perhaps as many as 12 or 14 shotguns and rifles

“They never told us if they found the shotgun that was used,” she said. “I know they took a lot of guns out that first day. They were out in the yard the second day, and four months later the guns were still there, laying in the yard.”

What in the world.. I am hearing Dueling Banjos for cying outloud.

I CAN NOT WRAP MY MIND AROUND THAT ...:waitasec:

That is a big clue in my book. Where is chain of evidence and who is in charge .. lets see Law Enforcement usually !! This whole thing stinks.

Thanks Flossie for the name .. after I submitted post I remembered the name, but I couldn't edit my post for some reason.

 

[I Din Doot]

It makes it especially bad when there was already a kinky, HINKY, link to LE. The story about LE setting on the road (stalking,intimidating") and the Dad staying in the barn "waiting" opens another venue.:waitasec: The good 'ol boy network is alive and well pretty much anywhere you go.

FWIW: I read two transcripts today that described a family dog laying beside a deceased family member. Ol' Shep. Whatta good dog.

 

[Deleted member 718]

I am not sure if the opinion of overkill is warranted.
From what I can gather, there was really one antemurder wound, the broken collar bone and the left jaw was fractured. The collar bone was probably fractured during the scuffle with the offender and the jaw bone a result of the shot gun blast. The hands, leg and other absent body parts were most likely caused from the fire and / or animal activity. Often times, animals will cause damage to a body that has been left in the elements. Even though, this body had only been left out for 24 hours, I believe the offender only shot Danny. The other damage was most likely a combination of fire and animal activity. I find it very endearing the family dog was laying next to Danny's body. He may have laid there out of a protective nature. So sad.

This account says an axe was used and the parents were eviscerated. Someone held a grudge. And I think it was someone emotionally close as the bodies were covered after the murder. MOO

http://books.google.com/books?id=QV...CDUQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q="lauria bible"&f=false

 

[little726]

After reading pages 1 thru 10, I have a few thoughts and questions.

All the reports state that Kathy Freeman took Ashley and Lauria out to dinner. They also went to the feed store, got water at Kathy's mother's, plus, went to Walmart. It sounds like a very time consuming evening. To me, anyways. There dosen't seem to be time for a party.

Kathy Freeman was going to take Ashley to a driving test on December 31 1999, which was a Friday. Being that the 31st was the day before New Years Eve, plus, a Friday. Most government offices close the day before a holiday.

It was stated there were arrowheads in shadowboxes throughout the house. They weren't all in one place. Whoever took them, had to have known just where they were at.

Jeremy Hurst knew where Ashley kept her money! In the freezer, in a Tupperware bowl.

As we already know, neither the arrowheads or money was ever found.

My last question is, was the Freemans shot with one of their own guns?

Ok, after reading a few more articles, I see they were celebrating Ashley's birthday on December 29th. Not the 30th. So scratch the thought of the government offices being closed.

 

[Oriah]

This account says an axe was used and the parents were eviscerated. Someone held a grudge. And I think it was someone emotionally close as the bodies were covered after the murder. MOO

http://books.google.com/books?id=QV...CDUQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q="lauria bible"&f=false

This is a fictionalized account..... but I do think there was quite a struggle and that the method of killing (shotgun to the face) personalizes things.

Personally I believe drugs to be involved.
It can't be particularly easy to shoot two people in the face. Would it be easier if you knew the people? Or if they were strangers to you?

 

[Oriah]

My main interest in the studying of crime comes from the profiling aspect. I would like to know more so that the type of suspect pool could be narrowed down. These are my thoughts on the offender(s) -

1) Knew the family.
2) Has a criminal record. (Probably drugs, robbery, assault/murder)
3) Familiar with the local area.
4) Familiar with the fact that drugs and money would be found on the property.
5) May have been surprised to learn that there were 2 teenage girls at the residence. Probably was expecting to have to silence one girl not 2.
6) Drives a pick up.
7) Regular routine would include being up early morning.

Importance of the acclerant - I would like to know if the acclerant was something that was found on site. If so, setting the fire was probably not planned. It may have been a reaction to the robbery getting out of hand. (escalating into murders)

Firearm - one type of firearm used, usually indicates one offender. It would have to be someone with quite a lot of gumption to control the scene with one firearm and 4 victims.

ITA about the importance of the accelerant. From what I can determine it was a fuel that could very well have been on site- but would also be common enough to have in a truck in those parts as well. IMO, it was kerosene, gasolene, or range oil. All might have been on site, or all could have been carried in.

And I also agree that it would be difficult to control the scene with one firearm and 4 adult victims present. Perhaps less so, however if the victims knew their attacker?
And while unusual I think...it certainly can and has been done.
For some reason, the first case that comes to mind is Dr. Petit's family:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/07/nyregion/07slay.html

 

[Oriah]

After reading pages 1 thru 10, I have a few thoughts and questions.

All the reports state that Kathy Freeman took Ashley and Lauria out to dinner. They also went to the feed store, got water at Kathy's mother's, plus, went to Walmart. It sounds like a very time consuming evening. To me, anyways. There dosen't seem to be time for a party.

Kathy Freeman was going to take Ashley to a driving test on December 31 1999, which was a Friday. Being that the 31st was the day before New Years Eve, plus, a Friday. Most government offices close the day before a holiday.

It was stated there were arrowheads in shadowboxes throughout the house. They weren't all in one place. Whoever took them, had to have known just where they were at.

Jeremy Hurst knew where Ashley kept her money! In the freezer, in a Tupperware bowl.

As we already know, neither the arrowheads or money was ever found.

My last question is, was the Freemans shot with one of their own guns?Ok, after reading a few more articles, I see they were celebrating Ashley's birthday on December 29th. Not the 30th. So scratch the thought of the government offices being closed.

There is complete and utter confusion and mishandling of the ballistics evidence in the case- very frustrating. No where does it definitively state what shotgun was used (or even possibly used) to murder the Freemans. If anyone can find this info, I would be hugely appreciative!

The ME has physical shot shell evidence recovered from the Freemans.....how is it there is no clarification on the weapon used?? :waitasec:

 

[Deleted member 718]

Does any one else find it unusual that they lived without running water? I can't imagine a teen girl putting up with that.

 

[Deleted member 718]

This is a fictionalized account..... but I do think there was quite a struggle and that the method of killing (shotgun to the face) personalizes things.

Personally I believe drugs to be involved.
It can't be particularly easy to shoot two people in the face. Would it be easier if you knew the people? Or if they were strangers to you?

MOO, it seems like a crime of passion, but I'm seriously lacking in details.

 

[little726]

For me, it would be easier to shoot a stranger. Unless...someone I knew was beating the crap out of me. Then, I would have to protect myself, by any means possible.

 

[little726]

MOO, it seems like a crime of passion, but I'm seriously lacking in details.

YES! We need more details. I only know what I've read here at WS. I have lots of questions.

 

[RubyRed]

The Freemans were also upset over their sons( Shane ) death and considered it a murder by the sheriff’s department. IIRC they were also planning a lawsuit. So one theory could be that the sheriff's department decided to get rid of the Freemans. I mean cops didn't secure the crime scene and just assumed Danny had killed Kathy and went on the run with the girls, yet all of the vehicles were there. It took Lauria's family to find him the next day. Can we say incompetent LE. Geesh. They were ready to wash their hands of this case pretty quick.

And then there is the nurse who taped that show about this case. She helped the Freeman's the night their son was shot. Her daughter was a friend of Ashley's. She was shot and killed at the hospital she worked at. The guy who shot her is gunned down and killed by LE. The show never did air ( probably scared senseless ) but I can't help but wonder if she knew something.

An awful lot of killings connected to one family. Something isn't adding up. jmo

 

[Oriah]

Do we have anyone in OK social services that knows how long incident reports are kept in the county? I am interested in knowing if there were any reports taken involving Shane or Ashley (or the family) in the years prior to the murders, that are still on record anywhere.
TIA....

 

[Oriah]

Bumping for Ashley and Lauria....

I can't find any CPS or family services records earlier than 2002, but there is rumor (per their peers in school at the time) that there was a case opened the same year Shane was killed alleging sexual abuse of Ashley by her father, but was deemed inconclusive of evidence and so dropped.

If this is true, how much merit do people think it holds in relation to this crime?