OK OK - Lauria Bible, 16, & Ashley Freeman, 16, Welch, 30 December 1999 *ARREST*

[wfgodot]

I agree. Maybe we should just take the arrowhead theft angle off the table as it seems to be more of a distraction than a viable theory. Could be just a coincidence. Could be the collection was sold before the murders/abductions.

While agreeing it's low on the list of probabilities, the theft of artifacts theory can't be totally discounted; they were there, then they weren't. Doesn't seem likely all traces of glass display cases, flint, rough-hewn stone, etc. etc., would vanish in the blaze. No info whatsoever indicates they were sold beforehand.

So here's a little list of possibilities: which do you guys put first in terms of what probably happened? As ever, I have no idea.

Genesis of the Trailer Tragedy:

* entirely random "pick a victim" event, meth-heads roaming wild
* Ashley and Lauria were the prime, pre-selected, targets
* Ashley and Lauria were somehow involved in murders, effected own escape
* arrowheads, arrowheads, arrowheads!
* revenge personally directed at Danny Freeman (drug-involvement)
* revenge generated by rogue LE, based on family criticism of death of son
* revenge by parties unknown, though known to the Freemans
* women were followed home from Vinita by killers acting on whim
* ??? ________ <-- fill in the blank

 

[wfgodot]

It makes me wonder what the heck is going on in Oklahoma. And also, why is it so common to carry large amounts of cash in Oklahoma.

I think I might have already asked about this, but quick poll anyway:
#1: What do ya'll consider a large amount of cash?
#2: On a daily basis, how many of you carry your idea of a large amount of cash? (or keep it in the fridge?)


As for the broken collarbone. I believe it was speculated somewhere that it was broken post-mortem, perhaps in the collapse of the fire? Can't remember- if anyone has the autopsy link, that would be great.

I personally think either his arm was wrenched somehow, he was struck directly with a heavy object that he was trying to deflect, or it was the gunshot. Or maybe it had been broken previously?
No idea, actually.

We in Oklahoma wonder daily what the heck is going on here.

Okies keeping or carrying large amounts of cash has to be understood in context: if such behavior is prevalent here as opposed to other states, one has to think back to the Great Depression, to banks foreclosing on farmers, to banks failing, to Dust Bowl times. I would guess that we rank low in trust of bankers and financial institutions, based on extended family experience with such critters. Cash stored with venison in the freezer is cash on hand - it's not going to go to pay what we owe unless we want it to, no matter who's beefing about our debt. It can be seized only at the pointing of the barrel of our weapon (unregistered, of course).

It's also handy if we're drug addicts making a spur-of-the-moment transaction.

To me, a "large amount of cash on hand" these days is anything over a thousand dollars. (Right now, I have twenty-eight dollars and fifty-three cents on my person!)

 

[Oriah]

We in Oklahoma wonder daily what the heck is going on here.

Okies keeping or carrying large amounts of cash has to be understood in context: if such behavior is prevalent here as opposed to other states, one has to think back to the Great Depression, to banks foreclosing on farmers, to banks failing, to Dust Bowl times. I would guess that we rank low in trust of bankers and financial institutions, based on extended family experience with such critters. Cash stored with venison in the freezer is cash on hand - it's not going to go to pay what we owe unless we want it to, no matter who's beefing about our debt. It can be seized only at the pointing of the barrel of our weapon (unregistered, of course).

It's also handy if we're drug addicts making a spur-of-the-moment transaction.

To me, a "large amount of cash on hand" these days is anything over a thousand dollars. (Right now, I have twenty-eight dollars and fifty-three cents on my person!)

Excellent point about Okies and banks, and one I was putting aside in my brain even though I knew I shouldn't be.
A large amount of cash to me is anything over about $300. Of which it would not even cross my mind to put in the fridge, because...

A: Why would I put $300 in a fridge? Does cash increase in value as its' temperature drops?
B: Doesn't everyone know that's the first place people who break into homes looking for cash...look?
C: Who am I hiding it from....myself??

(FYI, I've got $15.36 in my wallet, but also a debit card. Maybe I am wicked broke.)

Which makes me think even harder on the purse issue.

What else was in there?

I don't have the evidence report on that. Anyone, anyone, anyone?

 

[wfgodot]

Excellent point about Okies and banks, and one I was putting aside in my brain even though I knew I shouldn't be.
A large amount of cash to me is anything over about $300. Of which it would not even cross my mind to put in the fridge, because...

A: Why would I put $300 in a fridge? Does cash increase in value as its' temperature drops?
B: Doesn't everyone know that's the first place people who break into homes looking for cash...look?
C: Who am I hiding it from....myself??

(FYI, I've got $15.36 in my wallet, but also a debit card. Maybe I am wicked broke.)

Which makes me think even harder on the purse issue.

What else was in there?

I don't have the evidence report on that. Anyone, anyone, anyone?

Yeah, at first I put "anything over $200," but that was personal opinion based on being chronically broke, and also on remembering when $200 was a heckuva lot of money. Today's thousand is 1974's two hundred.

Maybe not, but the expression "cold cash" may derive from people hiding their money with their frozen foods.

Okay now everyone (claps hands), let's look at the list at #301 above, and vote, vote, vote! What in God's name happened that night? It's been bugging me since late last millenium!

 

[Oriah]

Yes, my $300 was based on what you can typically take out of an ATM machine today. But I guess other people's banks might be different. Or else, ya'll just hate banks in Oklahoma.

Re: #301.

I kind of want to add another option and say, it was a dark and stormy night....lol. (But it wasn't stormy.)

And I'm going with drug fueled revenge of uncertain origin, girls innocent victims.
At this moment anyway.

 

[Fairy1]

While agreeing it's low on the list of probabilities, the theft of artifacts theory can't be totally discounted; they were there, then they weren't. Doesn't seem likely all traces of glass display cases, flint, rough-hewn stone, etc. etc., would vanish in the blaze. No info whatsoever indicates they were sold beforehand.

So here's a little list of possibilities: which do you guys put first in terms of what probably happened? As ever, I have no idea.

Genesis of the Trailer Tragedy:

* entirely random "pick a victim" event, meth-heads roaming wild
* Ashley and Lauria were the prime, pre-selected, targets
* Ashley and Lauria were somehow involved in murders, effected own escape
* arrowheads, arrowheads, arrowheads!
* revenge personally directed at Danny Freeman (drug-involvement)
* revenge generated by rogue LE, based on family criticism of death of son
* revenge by parties unknown, though known to the Freemans
* women were followed home from Vinita by killers acting on whim
* ??? ________ <-- fill in the blank

Bolded my top picks. I do believe drugs were involved whatever the scenario.

 

[wfgodot]

Bolded my top picks. I do believe drugs were involved whatever the scenario.

As of this moment, I'm going to go with "revenge directed at Danny Freeman (drug involvement)." Probably change my mind in an hour of course!

 

[docwho3]

. . . .As for the broken collarbone. I believe it was speculated somewhere
that it was broken post-mortem, . . ..

. . .'The medical examiner determined that Danny's right collarbone had been fractured
prior to the entrance of the fatal wound'. . .
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/bible_lauria.html

If the bone was broken before the fatal wound as this quote indicates.
I wonder if it is possible to tell if the cause of the wound was being hit with a gun or
by some fighting of some sort.

 

[wfgodot]

. . .'The medical examiner determined that Danny's right collarbone had been fractured
prior to the entrance of the fatal wound'. . .
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/bible_lauria.html

If the bone was broken before the fatal wound as this quote indicates.
I wonder if it is possible to tell if the cause of the wound was being hit with a gun or
by some fighting of some sort.

I'm guessing "whacked by home invader wielding baseball bat." Which would have driven him to his knees, facilitating the head shot.

 

[Oriah]

. . .'The medical examiner determined that Danny's right collarbone had been fractured
prior to the entrance of the fatal wound'. . .
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/bible_lauria.html

If the bone was broken before the fatal wound as this quote indicates.
I wonder if it is possible to tell if the cause of the wound was being hit with a gun or
by some fighting of some sort.

Thank you for pulling that, docwho3.

I can't find a timeline on that
To me, that means he could have broken it much prior- like it was a healed fracture. Or it could have been broken just prior to the event. But that should be in the autopsy report. Off to dig that up. Again. *sigh*

 

[Oriah]

I'm guessing "whacked by home invader wielding baseball bat." Which would have driven him to his knees, facilitating the head shot.

That's where my money is also.

 

[Sooner Fan#1]

That's where my money is also.

Hi Oriah, I just wanted to drop in and tell you I think of you often. My husband has a fairly agressive cancer with lots of treatments and surgery is coming. I wish I could be more active, but right now I have a lot on my plate. God Bless you and your team. I'm one of your biggest fan.

 

[Fairy1]

Hi Oriah, I just wanted to drop in and tell you I think of you often. My husband has a fairly agressive cancer with lots of treatments and surgery is coming. I wish I could be more active, but right now I have a lot on my plate. God Bless you and your team. I'm one of your biggest fan.

Sending prayers your way & hoping your hubby wins this fight. We'll be here when he's all better and you can jump in again!

 

[docwho3]

Thank you for pulling that, docwho3.

I can't find a timeline on that
To me, that means he could have broken it much prior- like it was a healed fracture.
Or it could have been broken just prior to the event. But that should be in the autopsy report.
Off to dig that up. Again. *sigh*

I think if it was mentioned in the description about the case that it is probable that
the injury is part of what happened the night of the crime but looking up any coronor's report
with his conclusions, if any, about the wound is probably a good thing too.

 

[Oriah]

Sending prayers your way & hoping your hubby wins this fight. We'll be here when he's all better and you can jump in again!

Sooner Fan,:blowkiss:
I'm so sorry to hear this. I second Fairy1. Come back to us when your husband is all better. We'll be here!

 

[Oriah]

I think if it was mentioned in the description about the case that it is probable that
the injury is part of what happened the night of the crime but looking up any coronor's report
with his conclusions, if any, about the wound is probably a good thing too.

Yes, probable for sure. But oh the 'assume' gets me every time. If you know what I mean! Sifting through acres of info- not finding ME's report. But still sifting. I should probably just call and ask, but it's a Sunday. *sigh again*

 

[Oriah]

Cannot find that ME report anywhere, but I may possibly just be exhausted, lol. If anyone can find it, I would be most appreciative.

Heading out in a couple days to try and clear yet another area of our grid, slightly SE of last. Will keep ya'll posted. Why oh why are there so many sink holes and gas lines in OK?!?

 

[Oriah]

I am copy/pasting over from another thread because I just found that ATF is where the missing arrowhead collection might be found as well. (Not the arrowheads themselves...although who knows? but who governs them...)

http://www.atf.gov/about/foia/ffl-list.html

Still cannot find the ME report. Paperwork *sigh*

 

[avmzlv]

Okay, this story has baffled me since is reaired on Unsolved Mysterious a couple of weeks ago. I do have a couple of questions and comments if there is anyone out there that can answer them or comment on them i would appreciate it. In the UM they said that the LE officers who were involved in the Shane accidental shooting were excluded from the case due to their involvement and of course the lie detector test they took "supposedly" excluded them from any involvement, yet they are no longer employed by the department. What happened to the both of them, they were brothers, the Chief and the one who shot Shane. Where are they now? Why did they leave a couple of years after the whole incident? Lie detector tests can be manipulated and perhaps that is what happened here. The whole investigation is so botched i could throw up. Everything that could go wrong in the case went wrong. My heart goes out to the families. Speaking about the families, i realize this sounds kind of corky but has anyone had any renowed psychics out there to do a reading? I have seen that some LE are using them for some unsolved cases. At this point this may be an option to get some leads and perhaps bring some closure to the families.

 

[wfgodot]

Okay, this story has baffled me since is reaired on Unsolved Mysterious a couple of weeks ago. I do have a couple of questions and comments if there is anyone out there that can answer them or comment on them i would appreciate it. In the UM they said that the LE officers who were involved in the Shane accidental shooting were excluded from the case due to their involvement and of course the lie detector test they took "supposedly" excluded them from any involvement, yet they are no longer employed by the department. What happened to the both of them, they were brothers, the Chief and the one who shot Shane. Where are they now? Why did they leave a couple of years after the whole incident? Lie detector tests can be manipulated and perhaps that is what happened here. The whole investigation is so botched i could throw up. Everything that could go wrong in the case went wrong. My heart goes out to the families. Speaking about the families, i realize this sounds kind of corky but has anyone had any renowed psychics out there to do a reading? I have seen that some LE are using them for some unsolved cases. At this point this may be an option to get some leads and perhaps bring some closure to the families.

Welcome to WS, avmzlv. This case needs sleuthers.

It's my understanding that Shane was shot to death by a Craig County deputy. I have no idea where that person is today. As the deputy job can be high turnover - the pay in the county can't be too competitive - he may have taken another position. Also, he may also leave when the sheriff is voted out or doesn't run for election again. Or he may simply be out of law enforcement.

As for psychics, can't help you there. They may or may not have been asked to do whatever it is they do, which imo isn't much and isn't helpful. But at this point, going on eleven years after the crime, we are all frustrated.