Identified! OK - OSBI Needs Help to ID Woman In Photo *Resolved*

[trixie]

Thank you Philamena and Czechmate7.

 

[docwho3]

. . .My sisters boyfriend was convicted of second degree murder (even with no body) . . .

Is there a WS thread for the case? And if not do you want to start one to try and figure where the remains are? I mean it could be pretty awful to consider some of the things that might have been done to the body to make it disappear. Burial is the nicest of the possibilities. Discussing such things or "hearing" them discussed when it hits so close to home might make you feel bad.

 

[philamena]

This case has been one of those rare websleuths cases where computer skills and websearch skills could actually have some small sucesses to help move a case along. Some of you recognized the type of clothing as being of a certain style from a certain area of the world and others recognized the likely heritage of the victim. People put in alot of time looking up screws and fasteners and clips and threads and strings and even looking up stains and impressions that showed up through the back of the image in some cases. We started with one doctored picture and got hold of a better version and now have two examples to look at to remember what tell tale things show up visually when a pic has been altered (apart from looking at the raw numbers in the file data) and that can help in a future case. And even though we may not hear about it any time soon this case may not be over even if it moves across borders. And we kept the case in the public eye online by just talking about it.

And I noticed that no one was defending a suspect just to satisfy a gut hunch and no one was attacking any suspect on the same flimsy sort of whim but everyone seemed intent on hunting for facts and to understand and correctly interpret the few facts we had to work with. Everyones thoughts were heard and thoughtfully considered. I feel proud to have been a small part of the group.

Sometimes I learn very much from the mistakes I make in a case. I remember I once learned not to assume that L.E. searches for bodies or cars are perfect. I once learned the hard way that even after several searches and years of time they missed a whole van with 2 dead occupants in about 11 feet of water. On another case I learned that the official guestimate on how long someone has been dead can be off by many years and I had to learn in this case to not let a spooky image cause me to look for an extraordinary explanation when a more simple one will do. I have long known of the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) protocol but this pic with its possibilities of torture had me overly concerned. I am glad someone here reminded me to keep it simple.

I can see where L.E. felt they needed to investigate this image and why and how it was left behind to be found.

If nothing else this case so far was mentally a good stretch of the legs.

docwho3,
What a wonderfully thoughtful post! I'm going to say thank you.

 

[trixie]

Is there a WS thread for the case? And if not do you want to start one to try and figure where the remains are? I mean it could be pretty awful to consider some of the things that might have been done to the body to make it disappear. Burial is the nicest of the possibilities. Discussing such things or "hearing" them discussed when it hits so close to home might make you feel bad.

Actually it happened so long ago I don't really think there is anything left to be found. His "friend" told him to take her down to " Germantown Road" and bury her out there so who knows if that's what he did or not. I don't know if you've ever been to the Portland Oregon area but it is very beautiful and very vegetative and dense. The police did take a cadaver dog down Germantown Rd. but they came up empty. My mother went out there and took pictures of the area during the trial. There's no way anyone would ever be found. BTW he did ask his "friend" to bring him some lye. So I sincerely doubt there is anything left at all to be found. Thanks so much for the condolences tho.

 

[txsvicki]

I posted this earlier, but when I was in Kuwait and Bahrain it was nothing to be able to purchase pictures of deceased people. Vendors along the street or little nic-nac stores sold them on racks like postcards. It's not like they have police and detectives trying to solve every murder in that part of the world (especially not a crime against a woman). I would bet a service member did purchase this particular photo..

Trixie~ I'm so sorry to hear about your loss...prayers and hugs to you..

Who are the people buying these photos? You'd think our people serving and working there have already seen so much death. A friend working over there spoke to us yesterday and one of his co workers was blown up the other day while running for the bomb shelter. Hopefully it's the locals buying the things.

 

[czechmate7]

Who are the people buying these photos? You'd think our people serving and working there have already seen so much death. A friend working over there spoke to us yesterday and one of his co workers was blown up the other day while running for the bomb shelter. Hopefully it's the locals buying the things.

txsvicki...believe it or not there are many American soliders that are young and think these photos are "cool" souvenirs. All this killing is a way of life over there. Also, they treat their women like dirt. They still believe in the woman walking 3 steps behind the man. A woman can be sentenced to death for having an affair...it's just so different you wouldn't believe.

 

[jacobean]

There was something in the hair that worried me at first because it looked as if it was fixed into the scalp like some torture device (and seeing what appeared to be a wire running into the hair near the clip was only making it seem worse) but after careful consideration I think it was just a hair clip that was partly obscured by the hair.

There appears to be a string or stranded cord of some sort coming from the mouth. I do not know why it is there but the thoughts of the possibilities is not pleasant.

If the robe is middle eastern and the crime is related to morals from that part of the world then it is not terribly significant in pointing to the specific killer although it can indicate the crime might possibly be related to those of a certain heritage.

I dont want to jump to the conclusion of an honor killing because anyone can be the victim of the crime of murder regardless of heritage.

Having said that, it is allegedly (according to articles I read when researching the topic for a different case) not unheard of in honor killings for momentos of the honor killing to be sent back to the family. Sometimes it is body parts such as nose or ears, hands etc. Perhaps a picture had to suffice this time due to the long distance involved? Or then again this may have still been only a garden variety murder where the perp took a pic.

Im afraid to say that one of my first thoughts was also honour killing, but after Banaz Mahmoud in the UK, i didnt know if that was influencing me...i kinda didnt want to make the assumption just because i thought she looked asian/ middle eastern. But i certainly think its a possibility....

I also took a look at the link posted by Lizzybeth, ive seen alot of these sort of articles on human trafficking and the stop honour killings website, but if you look at the pic thats on this article, the bed and the blankets, it looks the same style furniture etc, so i think the pic was taken in Iraq/ middle east.

 

[lizzybeth]

Trixie, I'm so sorry about your sister and what you and your family had to go through. So all if this had a special meaning to you. I'm not sure if I should say this or not but I believe when someone passes that they're soul or spirit is all around those that loved them. My dad is buried in a cemetary plot but he's with me all the time. When I hear birds sing or feel a really nice breeze on a summer day (we've needed those breezes lately), that's my dad. So even though I know it's hard not knowing where her body is, your sister, what made her her, is with you and your family everyday. I'm really not very good with words but I hope you get the gist of what I'm trying to say.
God bless you and your family.

 

[christine2448]

You all have done alot of armchair detective work. I went back and read the last 3 pages...can someone tell me who said this beautiful young woman was killed in Iraq? Something doesn't pass the smell test about this. There is no way LE in the USA would run a picture of an American wounded/killed in Iraq. NO way. Or am I wayyyyy off?

Thank you philamena. I have followed this thread from the start.

I totally missed some how the post that states this girl is from Iraq. I am so very confused.

I also questioned the 'robe', I don't think it's a robe, I think it maybe bedsheets.....but the conversation suddenly turned to focus on Iraq and I am just lost.

I understand Jaded contacted LE is wtg info...but where did this other stuff come in.

It makes no sense they would put her pic up and ask public to help identify if she was not even from here, someone, please explain to those of us who are lost here.

 

[SewingDeb]

Thank you philamena. I have followed this thread from the start.

I totally missed some how the post that states this girl is from Iraq. I am so very confused.

I also questioned the 'robe', I don't think it's a robe, I think it maybe bedsheets.....but the conversation suddenly turned to focus on Iraq and I am just lost.

I understand Jaded contacted LE is wtg info...but where did this other stuff come in.

It makes no sense they would put her pic up and ask public to help identify if she was not even from here, someone, please explain to those of us who are lost here.

I could be wrong but I think the police had no idea who she was when they posted the picture and a tip has come in since their request that says she is from Iraq.

 

[philamena]

Thank you philamena. I have followed this thread from the start.

I totally missed some how the post that states this girl is from Iraq. I am so very confused.

I also questioned the 'robe', I don't think it's a robe, I think it maybe bedsheets.....but the conversation suddenly turned to focus on Iraq and I am just lost.

I understand Jaded contacted LE is wtg info...but where did this other stuff come in.

It makes no sense they would put her pic up and ask public to help identify if she was not even from here, someone, please explain to those of us who are lost here.

Hey Christine!
I was a bit confused too. I reread much of the thread and found out that the picture of our JaneDoe was reported to be the picture of someone killed in Iraq. I was very confused about a US sheriffs office asking for help identifying her. I understand it a little more clearly now.

 

[Reannan]

SewingDeb is correct. I do not believe LE originally knew the girl was from Iraq. As I stated earlier, I found this case to have been very beneficial as a learning tool for myself. I was talking to someone at lunch about how obsessed I have been, and that really, the more you investigate this stuff, the better you get at it. Armchair detectives will NEVER replace the real thing, but I think there is some validity to the dynamic exchange of thoughts and ideas combined with multiple people searching the net for information that can add value to current and cold cases. This case would actually be a good one for illustrating the process.....all we had to start with was a retouched photograph, and in a fairly short time, the group had come to conclude (thanks to Jacobean?? - I think is who first mentioned it) that she was possibly of Middle Eastern descent - because of possible threaded eyebrows. From that thought, someone else....was it you Jaded???.....found a similar clothing garment from the Middle East called a throbe. Now, I hope we hear "the rest of the story" as Paul Harvey would have stated.

 

[trixie]

Trixie, I'm so sorry about your sister and what you and your family had to go through. So all if this had a special meaning to you. I'm not sure if I should say this or not but I believe when someone passes that they're soul or spirit is all around those that loved them. My dad is buried in a cemetary plot but he's with me all the time. When I hear birds sing or feel a really nice breeze on a summer day (we've needed those breezes lately), that's my dad. So even though I know it's hard not knowing where her body is, your sister, what made her her, is with you and your family everyday. I'm really not very good with words but I hope you get the gist of what I'm trying to say.
God bless you and your family.

Lizzybeth thank you. I believe what you believe.

 

[trixie]

Thank you philamena. I have followed this thread from the start.

I totally missed some how the post that states this girl is from Iraq. I am so very confused.
I also questioned the 'robe', I don't think it's a robe, I think it maybe bedsheets.....but the conversation suddenly turned to focus on Iraq and I am just lost.

I understand Jaded contacted LE is wtg info...but where did this other stuff come in.

It makes no sense they would put her pic up and ask public to help identify if she was not even from here, someone, please explain to those of us who are lost here.

Hi there! Go back to page 16 and Jaded's post 393 and you will discover how we know she is from Iraq.

 

[kgeaux]

This case has been one of those rare websleuths cases where computer skills and websearch skills could actually have some small sucesses to help move a case along. Some of you recognized the type of clothing as being of a certain style from a certain area of the world and others recognized the likely heritage of the victim. People put in alot of time looking up screws and fasteners and clips and threads and strings and even looking up stains and impressions that showed up through the back of the image in some cases. We started with one doctored picture and got hold of a better version and now have two examples to look at to remember what tell tale things show up visually when a pic has been altered (apart from looking at the raw numbers in the file data) and that can help in a future case. And even though we may not hear about it any time soon this case may not be over even if it moves across borders. And we kept the case in the public eye online by just talking about it.

And I noticed that no one was defending a suspect just to satisfy a gut hunch and no one was attacking any suspect on the same flimsy sort of whim but everyone seemed intent on hunting for facts and to understand and correctly interpret the few facts we had to work with. Everyones thoughts were heard and thoughtfully considered. I feel proud to have been a small part of the group.

Sometimes I learn very much from the mistakes I make in a case. I remember I once learned not to assume that L.E. searches for bodies or cars are perfect. I once learned the hard way that even after several searches and years of time they missed a whole van with 2 dead occupants in about 11 feet of water. On another case I learned that the official guestimate on how long someone has been dead can be off by many years and I had to learn in this case to not let a spooky image cause me to look for an extraordinary explanation when a more simple one will do. I have long known of the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) protocol but this pic with its possibilities of torture had me overly concerned. I am glad someone here reminded me to keep it simple.

I can see where L.E. felt they needed to investigate this image and why and how it was left behind to be found.

If nothing else this case so far was mentally a good stretch of the legs.

You are right, doc. We have learned alot, honed some skills, and the discussion really has been geared toward identifying this young girl. We all managed to put aside our egos, we stayed calm when our "pet" theories were questioned, and you know what? We did GOOD.

We took a photo from some tiny town in Okalahoma and narrowed the victim down to a girl of Middle Eastern descent. We identified her robe as a "thobe." We have some sharp, sharp people here at websleuths, and I have enjoyed "working" with all of you!

We may be no closer to knowing who killed her, but I am comforted more than you might guess to know that she is identified, that she is probably resting in peace in her tomb right now instead of being scattered bones in a desert, with relatives crying themselves to sleep at night wondering where she is, is she OK? I am glad beyond measure that she has a name, even if it is not known to me.

I also am not convinced this was all in vain, sleuthers. Somebody murdered that poor girl. That photo showed up in Oklahoma, not Iraq.....somebody carried that picture over here. It doesn't look like a photo of a "friendly fire" victim to me. It looks posed------she looks like she suffered before her death. Whoever harmed this girl, he'll do it again. If it is an Iraqi male who has come to USA or if it is an American soldier who harmed her, he will do it again. He needs to be caught.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I think we should go a bit easy on LE because they may NOT have known who it was at first. The information about Iraq may have evolved after the posting. I suspect they removed the picture after the gained information. I don't think we were duped, and I for one, have learned A LOT!!! I know more about robes, bedspreads, and bone screws than I ever dreamed of knowing! I also have to say that it has been a valuable opportunity for me to learn and practice face recognition. I have often worried that the part of the brain that remembers faces is defective in my brain. I just don't remember what people look like! In this particular case, I have reduced the poor lady's face to minute grids and have compared those to countless missing people and unsolved murder cases in Oklahoma, Texas, and other areas of the US. I think I have benefited from this process because I now look at people's faces differently! Go figure. I also want to say, that I have benefited from this process from each of YOU. You guys are the greatest. I really mean that. With all of the horror that is obviously running amuk in the world, it is encouraging to know that there are still people who care. One other point, and I will shut up. My husband thinks I am ready for the looney bin with this stuff! He just doesn't get it. It is also nice to be connected to other SMART, wonderful people who are also TALENTED and gifted with INTELLIGENT analysis of a mystery....and who want to see crimes solved. Thank you all for being here.:blowkiss:

I agree with everything you said...except I feel duped that OSBI wasn't honest about her being dead from the begining and misleading the public in the first place. I believe they probably did learn the information after publishing the photo and the reason they took it down...but again...OSBI must have not gotten the memo. Either way, I am glad they have at least halfway identified her.

It was a good learning experience for all of us, IMO. Probably the only time we will be able to study a photo such as this one and research it. I admit I made some critical errors on this and I learned some great lessons from it. (I am glad now it wasn't TC and maybe there is still hope to find her someday.) I think everyone did some extensive research and put a lot of time and effort into this. It was excellent! There are some remarkably talented and intelligent people on WS! LE has nothing on WS! LOL They would only be so lucky to find a team to work so diligently and with so many excellent ideas to follow up on.

As horrific as this poor girl's picture is, I felt studying it was actually giving us a true shot of helping her which we don't get the chance to do. We usually are given clues gleaned from LE by round about sources and leaks to the media. We would never be privy to photos of this nature.

I see what LE CAN learn from us! We are a viable source of information and they should take advantage of WS as being such.

I applaud everyone working on this photo. It was a tough one, but we had a few that 'cracked' part of what we had to go on! WTG! Maybe we will eventually get another such case someday.

(*Note-My grandmother's and great aunt's robes did come from a shop frequented by many people around here! It was called Maussad's and was a Lebanese lingerie store! I never knew, but I knew I had seen many of them. LOL It confused me a lot!)

 

[kgeaux]

They do know where the picture came from and how it was obtained. It was taken in Iraq, date unknown. I'm not sure how the news site interpreted the information as they did - or if that was how it was presented to them, as I didn't see the original McClain County press release. Does anyone remember if the Sheriff's press release was the same as was reported by the media?

I haven't received an email back, but promise as soon as I do I'll let you know. I am just worried that if the information I was given is not known by the general public and it's not on their website, I would hate to impede their investigation IF the investigation is still active. I did pose that question to the Sheriff.

Jaded, when you say they know "how it was obtained" do you mean that LE knows who took the photo? They know how it got to USA, at a gas station in OK? Or by "obtained" do you mean that it is known that the picture was discovered at the gas station?

 

[Coriess]

This woman's photo has haunted me since the story started. I am so impressed with everyone's input.

When discussing the fact that she was dressed after she was killed - I agree. I also agree that if her clothing were changed after the time of death there would be staining and such on the shirt/robe covering - (since this is my first posting with a hypothesis I'm a little nervous! lol) - is it possible that instead of putting the clothing on her traditionally the robe itself is split up the back, making it possible to lay it over her like a sheet, and then just put her ams into the sleeves? Sort of like the old-time western pictures one can pose for...all the garb laces up in the back. It would make it very easy to "put on" a person that is lifeless. Once the arms are in the sleeves , our victim could have been posed, and then the edges (what would be the back of the robe) tucked under her to make it look like a normal garment?

 

[kgeaux]

(*Note-My grandmother's and great aunt's robes did come from a shop frequented by many people around here! It was called Maussad's and was a Lebanese lingerie store! I never knew, but I knew I had seen many of them. LOL It confused me a lot!)

Oh, wow! Your gramma and great aunts actually WERE wearing thobes!!! You said they were very similar! WTG, Searching!

 

[Jaded]

Jaded, when you say they know "how it was obtained" do you mean that LE knows who took the photo? They know how it got to USA, at a gas station in OK? Or by "obtained" do you mean that it is known that the picture was discovered at the gas station?

They know who dropped the photo and how it made it's way to the US. I have shared with a few people in PM the email. If they would like they can PM the info to others. I just don't want to put it out in public just in case this is an ongoing investigation. To those who are in the know, feel free to PM your fellow members and fill them in.

I do have a few more questions of the Sheriff and am waiting to receive an email back from him. Once I have an all clear that this is not an ongoing investigation, I'll post it out here on the board.