OK - Terence Crutcher, 40, fatally shot by Tulsa PD officer, 16 Sept 2016

[Jax49]

Thanks. At first I thought maybe it was a reflection or something, but seeing the blood streak makes it clear the window is up.

Exactly. Interesting that now the shooter claims he was reaching in his pocket. SMH.

 

[JeannaT]

His right hand was down around his pocket, that's clear. Whether he was trying to open the car door, or what he was doing is not clear. Moments before he was shot, his hand came down from the position it was in (up) while he was defying cops and walking to his car instead of getting on the ground.

 

[bluesneakers]

Exactly. Interesting that now the shooter claims he was reaching in his pocket. SMH.

Of course he was - that's where all AA men stash their guns.

 

[Jax49]

His right hand was down around his pocket, that's clear. Whether he was trying to open the car door, or what he was doing is not clear. Moments before he was shot, his hand came down from the position it was in (up) while he was defying cops and walking to his car instead of getting on the ground.

His car broke down. Why was he ordered to the ground (if he was)?

 

[JeannaT]

His car broke down. Why was he ordered to the ground (if he was)?

The 911 call stated he was acting erratically. Other than that, I don't know. She hasn't made any statements (that I'm aware of) that specifically say why she needed his cooperation and why she called for backup, except that he wasn't compliant. And not his fault, but he is very large. That ads a component in the power play - he's too large to be subdued physically by the female cop and her partner, IMHO. A very small or elderly man would be a different story.

 

[NewMama]

This is my opinion as well. What was he thinking doing that??? Why not just comply???

I don't disagree about him not complying. I disagree with being killed for not complying. We do not live in a dictatorship. This is not North Korea.

If it were okay to shoot anyone with criminal record or in possession of drugs for not complying we'd be missing many of our friends and family.


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[hec60504]

Look at Cliven Bundy and the standoff he had with Federal Agents in Nevada, and then again in Oregon - all of those militia members openly defying numerous law enforcement officers/authorities (even pointing guns at the police) - and they even took over and destroyed a Federal Wildlife Refuge building; all of that and only one person, LaVoy Finicum, was the only one shot (who subsequently died of his wounds).

I don't disagree about him not complying. I disagree with being killed for not complying. We do not live in a dictatorship. This is not North Korea.

If it were okay to shoot anyone with criminal record or in possession of drugs for not complying we'd be missing many of our friends and family.


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[hec60504]

As a former LEO myself, what I find disturbing is that not one officer even attempted to speak with Mr. Crutcher to ask him what happened; the PD came upon the scene and immediately took an offensive posture, as if the victim had just robbed a bank. Even the comments from the helicopter PD support that - saying that he looked like a bad dude, etc. I mean, they all just assumed that he was a hardened criminal before even checking anything out. Ironically, the one officer stated they believed that Crutcher was on PCP, and what a surprise - PCP was found in Crutcher's van. Go figure. To me, nothing about this case feels right at all...

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I saw the quote from the Ohio police chief who was appalled at this mess. My dad was a cop and I know he would have been. I'm still so shocked at this horrible killing here, in my hometown, I don't know that I can properly compose a complete post, but I'll throw some thoughts out that I had after reading the thread. For those of you trying to figure statistical analysis, remember a large part of Tulsa's racial makeup is Native Americans. I haven't looked at the official census numbers, but just from living here, I'd say there's almost as many Natives as Blacks. Hispanics run a close third.

The area where this happened is in North Tulsa and this is primarily a Black area. Not a "bad" area of town or place white people aren't welcome, it's just always been primarily where Black folks settled. Lots of good things going on there.

Tulsa does not have a lot of racial tension. Well, I don't know how this killing is going to affect the climate here, but in general there's not a lot of racial tension here. If I had to guess, it would be more with the growing Hispanic population.

We are having protests occurring tonight and they have been peaceful. The Crutcher family has asked for only peaceful protests and so far their wishes have been respected.

I love my city and I want to us to be able to respect our police force, but this one police officer had no business firing a gun Friday night. There was not one thing he did to give her to OK to blow him away. I don't care if he had a kilo of cocaine in his car. Actually, you know what? A big time drug dealer would for sure have been taken in alive. Their lives are valuable. Cops can get info from them. This guy? Not so much. Drove a crappy car. He's big and Black. The officer has allllll kinds of backup, she's got a loaded gun, she's got several cops around her with loaded guns, she's got her husband up in the helicopter above her, I'm sure with a loaded weapon. Her backup tazes Terence and what does she do? She blows him away.

He wasn't reaching into his vehicle. I've seen ALLL the videos, I've seen alll the presentations from alll the attorneys. The windows were up. His hands were up. He hits the ground with his hands up, on the street, still with his hands up. And not one damn person comes to his aid. Nobody. They were more concerned about traffic control and blocking off 36th.

Of course she did not go out that night looking for Black men to kill. That would be idiotic. But she did it, didn't she? And none of the reasons she gave for doing so are reasonable enough to take a life. Sorry, they just aren't. And if you believe "oh, we need to wait for the facts", or "we need to wait for her side", then you need to seriously examine why you are giving this officer the benefit of the doubt in this case.

Many people are having a really hard time abandoning their solid belief that police officers are here to protect us, and they MUST have had a good reason to do whatever they did, regardless of the outcome.

This isn't Mayberry anymore....

 

[Kimberlyd125]

As a former LEO myself, what I find disturbing is that not one officer even attempted to speak with Mr. Crutcher to ask him what happened; the PD came upon the scene and immediately took an offensive posture, as if the victim had just robbed a bank. Even the comments from the helicopter PD support that - saying that he looked like a bad dude, etc. I mean, they all just assumed that he was a hardened criminal before even checking anything out. Ironically, the one officer stated they believed that Crutcher was on PCP, and what a surprise - PCP was found in Crutcher's van. Go figure. To me, nothing about this case feels right at all...

BBM
How do you know this? How do you know what happened BEFORE the camera footage?
And the officer was trianed to be able to recognize someone on PCP. Looks like she was correct in her assessment.

LINK: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/wh...s-leave-out-key-details/ar-BBwsT9V?li=BBnb7Kz

snips:
-The videos don't show what happened when Shelby first encountered Crutcher and the roughly two minutes that follow before other officers arrived.
Also absent is audio that could have captured exchanges between Crutcher and Shelby.
"Hold traffic. I got a subject who won't show me his hands," but nothing captures what went on between Shelby and Crutcher prior to other officers showing up.

-Wood said Shelby has completed drug-recognition expert training and thought Crutcher was acting like he might be under the influence of PCP.

 

[human]

How could anyone determine PCP vs meth, for instance,

 

[bluesneakers]

BBM
How do you know this? How do you know what happened BEFORE the camera footage?
And the officer was trianed to be able to recognize someone on PCP. Looks like she was correct in her assessment.

LINK: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/wh...s-leave-out-key-details/ar-BBwsT9V?li=BBnb7Kz

snips:
-The videos don't show what happened when Shelby first encountered Crutcher and the roughly two minutes that follow before other officers arrived.
Also absent is audio that could have captured exchanges between Crutcher and Shelby.
"Hold traffic. I got a subject who won't show me his hands," but nothing captures what went on between Shelby and Crutcher prior to other officers showing up.

-Wood said Shelby has completed drug-recognition expert training and thought Crutcher was acting like he might be under the influence of PCP.

Are you also former LEO?

 

[bluesneakers]

Many people are having a really hard time abandoning their solid belief that police officers are here to protect us, and they MUST have had a good reason to do whatever they did, regardless of the outcome.

This isn't Mayberry anymore....

IMO I think we may need to leave those people behind in the fight for justice. Their opinions aren't saving lives and if they have no interest in justice and ending police brutality they need to sit down.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Are you also former LEO?

No and never claimed to be.

Being former LE doesn't give you some sort of power to see what happened BEFORE the footage unless you were there.

I asked how they knew. If they knew, they should be able to tell how right?

 

[HoneyWest]

Our District Attorney just had a press conference and announced they are pressing charges against LEO Betty Shelby. Charged with 1st degree manslaughter.

 

[HoneyWest]

Here's a Tulsa World reporter's twitter feed to see the announcement, and the statute describing first degree manslaughter:

https://twitter.com/JonesingToWrite

 

[Jax49]

http://www.tulsaworld.com/

A warrant has been issued for her arrest and arrangements made for her surrender. If convicted, Shelby could face at least four years in prison. The maximum sentence for that felony count would be life in prison.

 

[Snick1946]

WOW. I seriously did not expect that, nor so soon.

Before proceeding against an officer they had to have seen evidence of serious misconduct. It's a tragedy, I've seen nothing much about her family, if she has any kids, etc. This is no cause for celebration but it does reaffirm faith in the system.

 

[Isabelle]

Sorry I see what I see the front driver's and passenger are down and the sun roof is open. jmo idk I don't believe a word coming from that side, especially the lawyer. jmo

I haven't seen a good enough shot of the vehicle to tell whether the windows were up or down. I also couldn't tell if the man actually reached into the vehicle or put his hands on the vehicle. Do Tulsa officers wear cameras? Videos Ive seen were from helicopter or cruiser cam. I believe I read that the policewoman's husband was up in the helicopter over the scene at the time of the incident.

 

[bluesneakers]

[video=youtube;eWzISz69sxM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWzISz69sxM[/video]

Richard Sherman Addresses Police Killings Of Black Men At Press Conference, Then Walks Out

Snippet:

I do a lot of community service. I go out there and try to help kids and try to encourage them to be better and to aspire to more. And when you tell a kid, “When you’re dealing with police, just put your hands up and comply with everything,” and there’s still a chance of them getting shot and no repercussions for anyone, that’s an unfortunate time to be living. It’s an unfortunate place to be in. There’s not a lot you can tell a kid. There’s not a lot you can try to inspire ... a person when you say, “We need black fathers to be in the community to stay their for your kids,” but they’re getting killed in the street for nothing, for putting their hands on their cars.