Omaha Double Murder #2

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I wonder how many on this thread have also been following developments in the trial of the killers of Dr. William Petit's family in the news?
I was doing a bit of catch up research in this crime and while I don't think there was any connection I wonder if the same scenerio could have played out. Could someone have targeted the Hunter family from a chance encounter? Perhaps followed Tom's bus home from school? Nothing was apparently stolen in this crime but the killer might not have been there for money.
I did not think it wise to post this on the thread specificly for that crime but I wonder about some factors in it- Dr Petit's injuries were not that severe, he was the only person to escape, etc. Dr Petit was not rated well by some of his patients per what I could find. Probably that is way out there but again, that's another case.
Whenever I research a case of murder in a prominent family I find myself looking again and again. Some of these cases are very multi-faceted.

I've been following it a little bit, Snick. Every time I hear of a tragedy in a family where a member is in the medical field, I think of this case and wonder why?

I've also followed this tragic case which occured at Johns Hopkins.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39213367/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

It seems there is no protection nowadays for those in professions which once carried a veil of protection and respect in years past. It brings forth questions in my mind if some 'event' occured at Creighton involving either of the Dr's Hunter. (no disrepect intended at all to either doctor as it is born of my own curiosity) A bereaved family member of a patient who feels their loved one didn't receive adequate medical care may not have a grip on the reality that doctors are not gods. I mean, how would either dr. H know if a patient's family member was unbalanced and wanted to exact revenge against them for a family members death?

I am also hestitant to broach this subject because I don't wish to cause any hurt to familly members who may read here. I just hope that OPD has investigated this theory/angle.


MOO......wm
 
bumping up from page 3......

I have a link to share with you all. This is another awful tragedy where an 8 year old boy had his throat slashed while riding bicycles with his family. He had become separated from his Dr. Mom on the bike path when this mentally ill (IMO) young man attacked him. This quote really ticks me off.....

The warrant application says the youth walked up to construction
workers on June 10, asked them to call 911, and said he had just
stabbed someone. It says that when asked why, the youth said,
"Because he was the first one there."


http://www.katc.com/news/insanity-plea-for-teen-accused-of-killing/


Is it as simple as that for murderers? What a callous comment!!! Sounds like he felt the 'urge' to kill and picked the first (and probably the smallest too) human being he saw.
I keep going back to thinking that the person responsible for Tom and Shirlee's murders has rage or anger issues similar to this young man. IMO, it is 'insane' to commit murder in the first place.

All MOO for today.

I hope you all have a good week......wm o~<:o)
 
Sadly, these days, it is as simple as that. I recall right after our discussion began most of us felt there had to have been some deep personal connection between the killer and the victim (s). We were looking for an angry ex student of the Hunters, or family member of someone who died under their care.
I have lately nearly concluded this to have been a random act of an insane individual. Someone with some degree of skill at knowing how to kill, perhaps someone trained in the military as a commando. He may have been local, more likely not. He is a serial killer who perhaps maintains a normal life then every so often something comes over him, he may travel far from where he lives to kill. He's not as far gone as the young man in the article at least not yet. He has done this before and has done so since.
If so, this case may never be solved. About the best we can hope for is that someone recognizes what is going on and he becomes neutralized. Sorry to be so pessimistic, but that is reality these days.
 
I do think the way people are getting killed off and go missing in this country left and right, we are going to have to hold our policing systems to higher standards. I think statistics on solved and unsolved cases need to be put in front of the public's eyes on a consistent basis. If a county has a higher percentage than the average, hold them accountable and replace the department heads responsible for solving these crimes. I realize it is impossible to expect all crimes to be solved, but it honestly seems like they used to solve a much higher percentage than they do now, even with DNA.

The media makes us much more aware of what's going on in this world these days.
 
I do think the way people are getting killed off and go missing in this country left and right, we are going to have to hold our policing systems to higher standards. I think statistics on solved and unsolved cases need to be put in front of the public's eyes on a consistent basis. If a county has a higher percentage than the average, hold them accountable and replace the department heads responsible for solving these crimes. I realize it is impossible to expect all crimes to be solved, but it honestly seems like they used to solve a much higher percentage than they do now, even with DNA.

The media makes us much more aware of what's going on in this world these days.

After my last post I got to thinking about some of the recent murders in Omaha that have gone unsolved just in the past few months. I had posted about the couple killed and their bodies dumped outside the zoo- there was a family from Brazil- couple and a child- that went missing this past Winter and were never seen again. LE arrested a couple creeps using their credit cards and I thought then that they had the perps, but no- LE says they 'weren't involved' and nothing more since.
When I get the time and energy I may research back and list them, I know there are a couple of convenience store killings that are still unsolved despite the fact the killers were caught on tape.
I think a seperate thread about various LE venues and their close rate might prove enlightening. It's a thought.
 
That would be enlightening, snick. I am interested in the listing unsolved cases in Omaha also. (I'm a visual learner)

I agree with YD about accountability for LEA's. Are their gvmnt grants based on their ratio of solved vs unsolved cases? I know that LEA's are underpaid and understaffed as they are public servants. IMO, there should be some accountability held for solving cases just like school teachers, who are also public servants , have accountability for test scores.

MOO

wm
 
Many police chiefs in metropolitan areas make very good salaries and usually detectives are paid well. Here is the salary range in Dallas.

www.dallascityhall.com/pdf/HR/ClassSpec/PolicePaySchedule

Here are some statistics for Omaha crime:

http://www.opd.ci.omaha.ne.us/crime-information/crime-statistics

Here is the 2007 pay schedule for the Police Chief in Omaha. I imagine it is more today.

http://www.cityofomaha.org/humanres.../pay_plans/current/police management 2007.pdf

There are very few professions that will keep higher managment employed when their performance does not show improvement.
 
This story has again surfaced in local media, as part of a larger context. Here is a paste from an article in yesterday's World Herald:

Now the Nebraska State Patrol is hoping that using playing cards to highlight unsolved murders will bring justice to dozens of families.

The State Patrol on Tuesday released its first edition of cold-case homicide playing cards, using the photographs of victims to call attention to unsolved or suspected homicides in Nebraska that date as far back as 41 years.

The oldest case is the slaying of 17-year-old Mary Heese of Wahoo. Her body was found in a ditch southwest of Wahoo on March 25, 1969. That case is on the jack of clubs.

But some of the featured homicides occurred as recently as 2008. That's when 11-year-old Tom Hunter and his family's 57-year-old maid, Shirlee Sherman, were slain in a Omaha's Dundee area. Their photos are featured on two cards.

Patrol officials said about 20 states have used “cold-case playing cards” to generate new tips.

Two unsolved murders in Florida were solved two years ago after 100,000 decks of such cards were distributed to prisons in that state.

Nebraska is distributing 1,000 decks featuring 43 cold cases to inmates of state prisons and 22 county jails, according to Sgt. Glenn Elwell of the patrol's investigative services division.

“They may well know someone or something,” he said.

Decks of cards are not being distributed to the general public, although the images can be viewed on the patrol's website, www.statepatrol.nebraska.gov/ColdCase.aspx.

That is to avoid any suggestion that the cold-case cards are some kind of “novelty,” Elwell said. Families of the homicide victims featured on the cards granted permission to include their relatives' cases, he said.

Brad Waite, a brother of Shirlee Sherman, said his family is totally supportive. The cards, Waite said, might prompt inmates to talk about the March 13, 2008, homicides in a Dundee home.

“It sure as heck can't hurt,” he said. “These playing cards might jog someone's memory.”

Elwell said no information is too minor to forward to authorities.

“It may be something you consider ridiculous,” he said, “but that could be the very information that could put us over the top in solving these crimes.”

Cases involving child victims are featured on more than one card, Elwell said.

Local law enforcement agencies were consulted on which cold cases to feature. There are about 250 unsolved murders across the state, and Elwell said the goal is to feature all of them on cards if funding is available.

The playing card idea was suggested by the State Patrol's cold-case analyst, Kimberly Van Den Akker. Her position and the $3,100 cost of the initial playing cards were funded by a federal grant.

Tips about cold cases can be submitted by calling 877-441-5678 or by sending an e-mail to [email protected].

Contact the writer:

402-473-9584, [email protected]



I am told that these card decks will also be distributed for use in the state penal system. You have to wonder if this isn't some attempt to induce someone in prison with knowledge to start talking?
 
250 unsolved murders across the state. This number does not include any MISSING and/or presumed dead victims or questionable suicides. I found it strange that with that many unsolved murders they found the need to duplicate cards. I think the cards should be sorted by county to see just how many of these were in the Omaha area.

None of the cards show the manner of death either which might show some sort of pattern.

I think the cards are a good idea but they need to divulge more information.
 
I have been reading about this case for a couple days now. It is amazing to see how you experienced sleuthers go to work trying to resolve cases. I really am a novice and don't have much to offer in the way of information.
However, I did notice a photo of Tom that has stuck out to me. In the photo, he is holding a WII remote. I have learned a lot about the WII since our family purchased one last year. With most of these modern game machines, you can access the internet through your television. My daughter's boyfriend would sit for several hours each night and play games with people living halfway across the world. They were all strangers to him...but he could play games and chat with them right from the gaming machine.
I would not be surprised to find that Tom had played games against some pretty astute adults. He seemed to be an intelligent kid with a special knack for technology. Perhaps he competed against someone who never even realized how young a boy he was?

I would love to see this case resolved. My heart goes out to these families....
 
I have been reading about this case for a couple days now. It is amazing to see how you experienced sleuthers go to work trying to resolve cases. I really am a novice and don't have much to offer in the way of information.
However, I did notice a photo of Tom that has stuck out to me. In the photo, he is holding a WII remote. I have learned a lot about the WII since our family purchased one last year. With most of these modern game machines, you can access the internet through your television. My daughter's boyfriend would sit for several hours each night and play games with people living halfway across the world. They were all strangers to him...but he could play games and chat with them right from the gaming machine.
I would not be surprised to find that Tom had played games against some pretty astute adults. He seemed to be an intelligent kid with a special knack for technology. Perhaps he competed against someone who never even realized how young a boy he was?

I would love to see this case resolved. My heart goes out to these families....

:Welcome-12-june:

shefner, I'm happy you've joined us here.

I know what you are saying about the Wii game and the online contact with 'strangers' from across the world. One of the few
facts that we know about this case is that Tom Hunter's game was on 'pause' when OPD arrived on the scene of the crime.

This indicates to me that this was a part of Tom's daily after school routine. Tom's online activity could certainly provide clues regarding his contacts on the www. Yet, it is still unclear to me if it is possible to track players and contacts via online gaming which is connected thru cable and phone companies . Meaning....I know that computers provide a 'footprint' of online activities, but is there a way to track 'contacts' if the gaming system is connected thru a DSL or cable line? All MOO.

Thinking of Tom and Shirlee today.

wm
 
I do think the way people are getting killed off and go missing in this country left and right, we are going to have to hold our policing systems to higher standards. I think statistics on solved and unsolved cases need to be put in front of the public's eyes on a consistent basis. If a county has a higher percentage than the average, hold them accountable and replace the department heads responsible for solving these crimes. I realize it is impossible to expect all crimes to be solved, but it honestly seems like they used to solve a much higher percentage than they do now, even with DNA.

The media makes us much more aware of what's going on in this world these days.

~above BBM respectfully~

YD, I agree with you regarding setting higher standards for LEA's. However, in their defense, it seems to me that the number of crimes has risen drastically while the number of LEO's and funding hasn't caught up with the number of crimes committed. JMO.

There is a thread here of a case solved recently where a 13 year old girl was murdered in 1996. The (dumb) perp was recently arrested on a drug charge and swabbed for DNA. The popo ran the DNA and it matched DNA collected in this young girl's murder 14 years later. This gives me hope that Tom and Shirlee's killer will make a (dumb) mistake some day and the case will be solved thru DNA. (there had to be something left behind in this brutal crime scene, MOO)

OT I also hold out hope that DNA evidence will eventually connect a perp to our girls who were gunned down in OK.

Remembering Tom Hunter and Shirlee Sherman on this Sunday afternoon.

all MOO

wm
 
~above BBM respectfully~

YD, I agree with you regarding setting higher standards for LEA's. However, in their defense, it seems to me that the number of crimes has risen drastically while the number of LEO's and funding hasn't caught up with the number of crimes committed. JMO.

There is a thread here of a case solved recently where a 13 year old girl was murdered in 1996. The (dumb) perp was recently arrested on a drug charge and swabbed for DNA. The popo ran the DNA and it matched DNA collected in this young girl's murder 14 years later. This gives me hope that Tom and Shirlee's killer will make a (dumb) mistake some day and the case will be solved thru DNA. (there had to be something left behind in this brutal crime scene, MOO)

OT I also hold out hope that DNA evidence will eventually connect a perp to our girls who were gunned down in OK.

Remembering Tom Hunter and Shirlee Sherman on this Sunday afternoon.

all MOO

wm

I think DNA is a great tool for solving crimes, but it is not always available.

There are more crimes today because there are more people and I don't know whether the percentage of police per number of residents has kept up or not.
It would be interesting to know some of these ratios.

It just blows my mind how a savage murder can occur in broad daylight in a well inhabited neighborhood and go unsolved. Either this was one of the smartest killers on the planet or Omaha LE is simply not revealing ANY clues to the public which might help solve the murders.

I wonder if the front, back and side doors to the residence were locked when the father came home. Did any of the immediate neighbors hear anything unusual? How many saw the SUV and the reported stranger enter the house?
How many saw him leave the residence? What was the father's usual time to arrive home in the afternoon? Did any neighbors see Tom arrive home from school and enter the house? Did Tom enter the house alone? What position were the bodies in when LE arrived? Had the father moved either one of the victims? Why was AMW not allowed to film an episode about these crimes?
 
YD, this guy was smart, but not that smart. I think what we have here is a combination of LE not revealing what they know- probably for good reasons- and an unwillingness to push the investigation into areas that may create discomfort for Creighton or other local community leaders.
I have asked persons I have been in contact with about the doors, etc and am assured they would have been locked. I think it is no secret that Shirlee's son has posted in this discussion and insists his mom never left a door unlocked or open, or even would have answered the doorbell. From what I know neighbors casually noted Tom exiting from the bus that day and walking to the door. I assume he had either a key or a passcode to get in. I doubt the perp was already there, Tom had a half eaten snack on a plate on the table when his body was found. Of course if the perp was there to meet Shirlee he could have walked in on them but I sort of doubt she'd make him a sandwich or that he would have while an argument was taking place.
Shirlee was found in a hallway near the kitchen. Evidence is that she may have been attacked suddenly, from behind. Tom was sprawled on the DR floor, both had knives protruding from their throats. Tom's dad found him and as a doctor probably realized his son was gone. I would assume he would have known not to disturb the evidence. He came home at the usual time that day.
The AMW matter is what tells me something is hinky. Wouldn't you think they'd have wanted the widest possible input on this but they didnt. Almost from the start it is as if someone wanted this case to go away.
Anyone reading this thread is free to form their own conclusions. I have formed a few but for reasons I don't think should be gone into on a public forum won't post them. Shirlee's family needs to start raising hell on this thing.
 
If there is a Creighton connection to this crime, the newspaper and TV must be privy to something we don't know. What's to keep them from interviewing the neighbors who claim to have seen a man enter the house after Tom got home? What's to keep them from printing simulated drawings of the crime scene? It's like the whole town is avoiding these crimes. If the victims had been celebrities, the news would have been on this case non-stop. Why aren't these survivors after LE like Natalie Holloway's mother (although I think she went overboard)?

I just can't convince myself that some hired assassin came to town, stabbed two innocent victims and then vanished into thin air. It just doesn't compute for me.
And neither does the murder/suicide of Dr. Anderson and his wife.
 
/Cold Case Homicide Playing Cards

Is there anyone in this thread who has experience with giving anonymous tips, or anyone connected to LE, who can assure me that I will remain anonymous, If I submit a tip regarding one of the cold cases?

If the person were to get any knowledge from LE, or his attorney regarding who placed the tip, or just my location even - myself & my family will be in fear of their lives.

This person and his associates are extremely dangerous, and have extensive criminal backgrounds. I am valid to be in fear.

I know what the right thing to do is, yet I have to protect myself & my loved ones.
 
I assume (and hope, for you and your family's sake) the information you have is not in relation to this case. Because if it is, you've possibly already said too much.

Sounds like you believe others besides you (specifically, your family) would be endangered by you providing the information you have and your identity being found out.

Short answer: don't do it.

Don't endanger your family to provide information on a cold case. If it were just you (or me, in my case), I'd say it's your call. (I'd provide the info if it were me AND ONLY me in danger were my identity revealed.)

But it doesn't seem like a good way to go for you to put others in danger to provide such information, especially your family.

If you stumble upon a bullet-proof way to do it, don't. Unless you're satisfied it's double bullet-proof, even then, look at your family and think about it long and hard.

At least slow down and think clearly about it. The information you possess probably doesn't have a sell-by date.
 
Sin City, If you do decide to call in an anonymous tip, I suggest you purchase a 'bat phone' from which to make the call and for any future communication wtih LE. I understand your hesitance and mistrust of LE. Unfortunately, there are some bad cops and corruption in many LEA and there's no way of knowing the good ones from the bad ones.
I don't like feeling that way because I want to think all cops are good folks who have taken an oath to serve and protect. Sadly, that's not always true in the real world.

Snick1946, may be better able to advise you than myself as he has more experience with giving tips than I do.

My thoughts/prayers are with you as you reckon with this information which weighs heavily on your soul.

MOO

wm
 
I agree with TheSaint. If you have information that you are unsure about submitting you are welcome to contact any of the regulars on this thread via Personal Message and we can better advise you out of sight of the public.
I don't know if you refer to this case- if so please do contact me as I have some 'back door' resources I may be able to put you in touch with; and be careful about posting too much on this thread. Some of us have concluded long ago that the killer or killers is probably reading our posts.
I don't know if an anonymous letter would be taken seriously by LE but that may be the safest. Good luck with whatever you decide and be careful.
 
I agree with TheSaint. If you have information that you are unsure about submitting you are welcome to contact any of the regulars on this thread via Personal Message and we can better advise you out of sight of the public.
I don't know if you refer to this case- if so please do contact me as I have some 'back door' resources I may be able to put you in touch with; and be careful about posting too much on this thread. Some of us have concluded long ago that the killer or killers is probably reading our posts.
I don't know if an anonymous letter would be taken seriously by LE but that may be the safest. Good luck with whatever you decide and be careful.

Totally agree with Snick about WS.

Will also say: Go through someone else. I do think letters and emails are fairly easily traced &#8212; though you could send a note to a victim with your reasoning. Best is to get a disposable phone, and get a personal recommendation on which police officer to phone. Don't give your name. Could also call a reporter who has had their name on stories about the case. You could give them enough information to verify without giving your ID. Journalists can't be forced to give their sources. There are good cops, but get a personal recommendation from someone who knows the difference.
 
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