Opening Statements 03/05/2012 in MRT's Trial

[antiquegirl]

Very, very disturbing stuff, to say the least! I have a million questions, not the least of which are:

• Did TLM use up all the Oxys she bought that morning? Why the need for Percocets later that night? Was Tori drugged with them?
  
• If Tori was killed at the site where she was found (as claimed), why was there blood on MR's gym bag and the inside of his car door?
  
• Why did the Crown not once mention WHO killed Tori?
  
• Why was the sexual assault not discussed by the Crown?
  
• Why was there no opening statement by the defence? (And tomorrow the trial is supposed to begin with a witness testimony.) I thought that usually followed the Crown's statement.

So many more questions. This is not going to be a simple trial. It's all terribly upsetting. Poor little Tori! I so hope that she was unconscious when she was killed.

JMO

 

[daisy.faithfull]

I don't know, so far it sounds like they have mostly circumstantial evidence against him. I hope I'm missing something.

Don't forget though that:

"A popular misconception is that circumstantial evidence is less valid or less important than direct evidence. This is only partly true: direct evidence is popularly, but mistakenly, considered more powerful. Many successful criminal prosecutions rely largely or entirely on circumstantial evidence..."

But:
"However, there is sometimes more than one logical conclusion inferable from the same set of circumstances. In cases where one conclusion implies a defendant's guilt and another his innocence, the "benefit of the doubt" principle would apply. Indeed, if the circumstantial evidence suggests a possibility of innocence, the prosecution has the burden of disproving that possibility.[6]"

Both quotes come from [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumstantial_evidence"]Circumstantial evidence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame].

The article also notes that blood evidence, fingerprints etc. are also circumstantial evidence.

I just wanted to point that out because I found during discussion's about Casey A's trial with people not on WS there was some confusion about that. A circumstantial case is by no means a weak case.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

Very, very disturbing stuff, to say the least! I have a million questions, not the least of which are:

• 
  [*]Did TLM use up all the Oxys she bought that morning? Why the need for Percocets later that night? Was Tori drugged with them?
  [*]If Tori was killed at the site where she was found (as claimed), why was there blood on MR's gym bag and the inside of his car door?
  
• Why did the Crown not once mention WHO killed Tori?
  
• Why was the sexual assault not discussed by the Crown?
  
• Why was there no opening statement by the defence? (And tomorrow the trial is supposed to begin with a witness testimony.) I thought that usually followed the Crown's statement.

So many more questions. This is not going to be a simple trial. It's all terribly upsetting. Poor little Tori! I so hope that she was unconscious when she was killed.

JMO

The above is BBM

My opinion is that the Percosets were used to drug her.

And AG if you remember at the beginning when TLM was arrested, the news stories said that she told LE that she stepped away from the car while RF assaulted her.

Anyway, I guess we'll find out. Already this story is making me sick to my heart, I cannot imagine being in Tori's shoes, I just can't, poor baby.

 

[greenthumb]

[*]If Tori was killed at the site where she was found (as claimed), why was there blood on MR's gym bag and the inside of his car door

Perhaps this blood was transferred from his/her/their hands/clothing/weapon after the fact... it sounds like it was quite brutal, and that there quite literally would have been blood on his/her hands. Maybe digging into the gym bag for a towel to wipe off? And then the towel may have been discarded wherever the hammer/TLM's white jacket/rest of Tori's clothes went. Knowing that those things have not been recovered bothers me - I know it may mean that they were burned - but it may also mean that somewhere here in Southern Ontario, vital evidence may just be laying in a field waiting to be found. There's a lot of ground to search between Mt. Forest and Woodstock, could LE possibly have covered it all? I know I'll be keeping my eyes open if I go for walks, now that I know what I am looking for.

 

[nobodyzgirl]

Very, very disturbing stuff, to say the least! I have a million questions, not the least of which are:

• Did TLM use up all the Oxys she bought that morning? Why the need for Percocets later that night? Was Tori drugged with them?
  
• If Tori was killed at the site where she was found (as claimed), why was there blood on MR's gym bag and the inside of his car door?
  
• Why did the Crown not once mention WHO killed Tori?
  
• Why was the sexual assault not discussed by the Crown?
  
• Why was there no opening statement by the defence? (And tomorrow the trial is supposed to begin with a witness testimony.) I thought that usually followed the Crown's statement.

So many more questions. This is not going to be a simple trial. It's all terribly upsetting. Poor little Tori! I so hope that she was unconscious when she was killed.

JMO

Defence will give their opening statement when the Crown has rested their case.

My opinion is they didn't say who killed Tori because they don't know, and it would appear from what I read that they are just trying to link him to being there to get the conviction because they don't know if he was the one who murdered Tori or if it was TLM.

 

[KMouse]

Any guesses on where he/they disposed of the rear seat of the car?

I get the concept of holdback evidence but sometimes if people knew what to keep an eye out for it may help with some of these cases.

 

[myzzy]

Very, very disturbing stuff, to say the least! I have a million questions, not the least of which are:

• Did TLM use up all the Oxys she bought that morning? Why the need for Percocets later that night? Was Tori drugged with them?
  
• If Tori was killed at the site where she was found (as claimed), why was there blood on MR's gym bag and the inside of his car door?
  
• Why did the Crown not once mention WHO killed Tori?
  
• Why was the sexual assault not discussed by the Crown?
  

So many more questions. This is not going to be a simple trial. It's all terribly upsetting. Poor little Tori! I so hope that she was unconscious when she was killed.

JMO

Im with ya on all the questions, more then i want to think about.

Did TLM use up all the Oxys she bought that morning? Why the need for Percocets later that night? Was Tori drugged with them?

I take percs for my pain and usually they only last a hour or so. Not sure how many they got or took but it may not be that many ???

[*]If Tori was killed at the site where she was found (as claimed), why was there blood on MR's gym bag and the inside of his car door?

Maybe the bag was in the back seat of the car and the inital assult happened in the car and dragged out into the field. I had assumed this when i heard it ??? plausible?

 

[Kittymama]

I was also thinking the blood on the gym bag and the car might have been from Tori trying to fight back.

What is the part of the car they're talking about? Inside?

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Okay, I copied and pasted the tweets of The Crown's opening statements as they were posted here at WS so it would be easier for me to look at. I took screen shots and then made a photobucket album of it. I think I did it right, I don't know it will help others.

http://s1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii555/movioletz/

Thanks to ~n/t~, Sparklin, and nobodyzgirl for posting them.

(Sorry about the red and green squiggles. I copied and pasted as is and I don't know how to remove them without correcting them and I don't think I should do that.)

 

[myzzy]

Any guesses on where he/they disposed of the rear seat of the car?

I would guess burned and in a metal scrap yard since it hasnt been found ( that we know of ). A backseat is rather large item and only reason to get rid of it would have been to get rid of OBVIOUS evidence ( Blood, tissue, ect ), which leads me to believe the attack and eventual murder happened in that backseat in the remote location they ended up finding her.

 

[flipflop]

I'm not liking the "could be's". He could be the killer and it could be Tori's blood? How could they not know that?

Could they be wording it this way, as the evidence that will be presented will prove who's blood it is etc.

 

[kmclaren]

"AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court (Sparklin)
Crown says the accused visited Barbara Armstrong, a friend of Rafferty's in Guelph to buy drugs. Tori was in the car, but was not seen."

Just wanted to point out that unfortunately it doesn't sound like BA saw Tori.

True, but BA can testify that she interacted with MR (&TLM) that day which would re-inforce/support what TLM will tell about that day. As they said in one of the tweets, TLM's credibility may be an issue but told jurors to weigh what she says against supporting testimony (or something like that) - so even so BA may not have seen Tori, she can back up what TLM will say...

 

[daisy.faithfull]

So its possible that Tori was drugged out unconscious?

 

[myzzy]

Could they be wording it this way, as the evidence that will be presented will prove who's blood it is etc.

Oh interesting thought. I cant believe that TLM could have such a hold over MR that he just watched as it happened or went along with it

But I could imagine him being the instigator and TLM being the one who was so infatuated with MR that she was able to be persauded into the involvement of murdering Tori

 

[Hello_Kitty]

So its possible that Tori was drugged out unconscious?

My opinion is that is what they used the Percosets for. I just feel it in my bones.

 

[myzzy]

So its possible that Tori was drugged out unconscious?

Anything is possible eh?

I would not think they would have enough compassion to give her drugs, I bet my life it the drugs was for their enjoyment only and consumed by them.

 

[flipflop]

So its possible that Tori was drugged out unconscious?

I am thinking she was was drugged the minute she was put into the car to keep her quiet, she seemed like the type that had alot of spunk and would have put up a good fight. If she was drugged, hopefully she remembered nothing and felt nothing!!!!! RIP Tori....this case is all about justice for YOU!!!

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Anything is possible eh?

I would not think they would have enough compassion to give her drugs, I bet my life it the drugs was for their enjoyment only and consumed by them.

Me either. But they could have used the drugs to restrain her so she wouldn't fight. Tara (I think) said that she was a fighter.

ETA: after I posted flipflop said she thought Tori was fiesty too, but I'm leaving my post as I agree.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

Anything is possible eh?

I would not think they would have enough compassion to give her drugs, I bet my life it the drugs was for their enjoyment only and consumed by them.

I respectfully disagree, I think they are cowards enough to not want to hear her screams and see her struggles. She was sexually assaulted, drugged, then killed.

JMO

 

[myzzy]

I respectfully disagree, I think they are cowards enough to not want to hear her screams and see her struggles. She was sexually assaulted, drugged, then killed.

JMO

If we didnt have diffrent opinions, these conversations would get boring

Some questions I would need to know to think otherwise i guess so ill throw some thoughts out and questions maybe someone can help

Have we heard how many pills they obtained?

How many pills would it take and how long to incompasitate Tori.

Why get pills AFTER the abduction, involving other people and potentionally alerting someone that there is a unknown child in the car