OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #15

[RubyRed]

Kyron Horman's disappearance casts pall on last day of classes at Skyline School​

Classes end Tuesday at Skyline School with one second-grader noticeably absent from his desk in an otherwise cheerful light-blue room.

Kyron Horman's disappearance cast a pall over the final days of school as searchers crawled over the surrounding hillsides and roads looking for the missing 7-year–old with no success.

"Kids are being kids and laughing, but there's definitely a cloud over the school right now," said Portland schools spokesman Matt Shelby. "They're definitely concerned for Kyron and his family."
​

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_hormans_disappearance_ca.html​

 

[ketel0ne]

Hi all! I'm new to WS and live here in Portland. I have to say, this has been insanely scary for all of us (esp with school still being in session and having to leave my two boys all day)! This news report says it all, we're all on edge and checking EVERY car that seems to roll by...

The search for Kyron leads to local look-alikes http://www.katu.com/news/local/96338424.html

Also, the rest of us are out of school this week so a lot more recreators will be out there on Sauvie's Island....

On a separate note, my two boys and I were able to drop off supplies for the SAR teams the day before they said to stop donations. At least we felt like we did something.

Please let us find him soon!

Welcome to Websleuths!!!

 

[pufnstuf]

Although Kyron's disappearance is now classified as a criminal investigation, Gates said authorities still believe it's an isolated case and that there is "no reason to believe that kids are in any danger."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/search_for_kyron_horman_switch.html

Thats good!

Deconstructing cop-speak:

Criminal investigation - a crime has been committed against a victim
Isolated Incident - someone associated with the victim or someone who had a history with the victim enough to have motive.
No other children are in danger - not a sex offender picking any convenient victim; not someone who worked in or around the school and had opportunity.

Interpretation - Kyron was taken by someone who knew him, more than likely related to him, and a crime (murder?) was committed against him.

 

[raeann]

The home would not be roped off and declared a crime scene as there is no evidence that he was taken back home. All the witness said is that he was seen leaving the school with someone. The car. We don't know what car was being driven and we also don't know if LE has looked at it. It only takes a visual inspection to see if anything is "amiss". If this pans out the way I think it is going to, the car will be impounded and gone over with a fine tooth comb - but I think LE already knows there isn't anything there and besides, just like the pontiac and KC, Kyron was in that car everyday - his DNA, hair, footprints, fingerprints, etc. are all over it - hard to distinguish any solid evidence there.

The searches started logically - the last place the child was seen and panned out from there. I believe this is due to the fact that it takes a few days to get the cell pings from the provider - hence LE's comment in the presser about having it wrapped up by the end of the week. Once they got those ping records is when we saw the "shift" in the search areas and the now public request for video of certain roads.

Also, this is a very delicate and explosive situation. LE will do and say things just to keep everyone calm and especially not inflame the person. This situation is more than walking on eggshells - its like a blind person trying to walk through a mine field.

Actually, the home and car would be the VERY first place searched according to police protocol. They WOULD have been taken under police control and processed as a crime scene and it takes FAR more than a mere visual inspection to see if anything is amiss. The police look for evidence and the first place they would look is in the home and car of the person the witness said they saw them with.....THAT info. just came directly from a text I got from a detective friend. "There would be NO family access to a car or home that belongs to a person who WITNESSES said left the area with a missing child. NONE! until it has thoroughly been processed as a crime scene by forensics" end quote and since I can't give his name and badge number.....I am willing to post this as an opinion---

 

[eyes4crime]

I believe I read that Amber Dubois' parents were cleared.

Unfortunately, Amber was labeled as a run-a-way for a long time, as was Kayleah, as was so many others. Not sure they have to clear parents in a run-a-way situation.

In the Somer case, mom Diena and family were never cleared - I think sometimes it is a strategic decision - keeps the perp on edge, gives the perp a false sense of security and who knows what else. moo

 

[Dee10]

Of course the story varies the further down the line it gets. It is known that two teachers saw SM with Kyron. The school superintendent reported that himself. It did kind of grow legs when it turned into "and the teachers SAW her leave with him." I think what started out as "the teachers knew SM left with him" became SAW. Which I believe is incorrect. I believe the teachers knew she left with him, but not that they actually visually saw it.

That's how most rumors start - with a foundation of truth and then it grows.

From the press/LE - the "teachers did not see Kryon after 8:45". Simple! It is possible or maybe probable the bell had rung and they were in their rooms...makes sense to me anyway.

 

[mamaeb]

Raeann can you clarify what has been determined a rumor by admin so we can make it off limits? Thank you.

just a question... but just because someone behind a site claims something is a rumor, why would that be any different than another random facebooker posting that it was?
They are not LE, so we assume everything is rumor until LE tells us, right?

 

[CharlestonGal]

Great points. I forgot about that, which occurred to me the other day. The car, and the house, have Kyron all over them, so it would be hard to get evidence from either place. The pings just get me, though. In this day and age, most people understand that they can be tracked via that phone. My husband believes it's a conspiracy, lol, but I'm a techie so I could care less. If you planned on committing a crime, and had half a brain, you'd leave the phone home. The only people I can't see doing that are teens who will hold on to that phone no matter what or people who didn't set out to commit a crime in the first place.

You might remember to shut off your phone during the crime, but you might forget on one of your earlier recon missions to scope out likely potential crime scenes. I imagine they can get pings going back a few weeks. It's simple things like that which get people caught. LE might wonder why someone was circling or revisting the same location on numerous occasions days or weeks beforehand. You might be smart enough to shut your phone off during the event, but your trips beforehand may get you caught.

 

[raeann]

Raeann can you clarify what has been determined a rumor by admin so we can make it off limits? Thank you.

I will see...but it is being posted on that same FB link so I thought we could only post a link to it and not repeat it here. If I can paraphrase it is that ok?

 

[DairyGirl]

IF the search of the water today was from 'pings' (rumor) would it have taken 10 days for LE to get that info?

Yeah, I could see it taking a week to get those records. They started looking in Sauvie Island on Friday, the ground search ended Saturday so it makes sense. Something brought them there and unless there is an unknown POI (and there could be) I could see it taking a week for a search warrant and all paperwork to be done.

 

[cluciano63]

I wouldn't have known until today that my phone had to be off, I would have thought if I wasn't using it they could not trace it. But that's just me and I hardly ever use my cell phone, maybe most people know this.

 

[raeann]

On the other hand, it's quite possible to know the who (not saying SM) but not know the where. Perhaps there is a reason LE doesn't think the perpetrator went far from the area of the woods around the school. They've have to search it under those circumstances. Just because they may know who Kyron left with (and I am not saying they do) doesn't mean they know what happened after that.

It is the job of LE to determine the where and the first most logical place to find evidence of the where would be in the home and car and on the computer and on the property of the person that the witnesses identified. Even if they KNEW where, (which they do not or they would not have been searching in and around the school) they would still process the home and car of a witness identified POI for evidence.

 

[Indianagirl]

EXACTLY.....LE would have taken a completely different direction from day one if this RUMOR was remotely true. They would never risk the time, the safety, and the cost of tramping people from all over the state through woods and ponds if they had a reason to KNOW that the child never wandered away. Anyone who would imply that they did this frivolously when they had witnesses that proved it was unnecessary would be beyond unreasonable.

jmoo

I haven't formed an opinion on this case as of yet but I wanted to respectfully play devil's advocate to your post.

If this RUMOR is true and two teachers saw Kyron leave with his step-mom, here is one possible explanation as to why LE still handled it as a normal missing child's case and conducted all the searches.

Possible scenario:
Step-mom reports him missing, then Le talks to the school employees. Two teachers tell LE they saw Kyron leaving with his step-mom. LE tells step-mom this and she says well they must have been mistaken and thought I was leaving with him but when they saw us together we weren't leaving.

Take into consideration we don't know where the teachers were have rumored to see step-mom and Kyron at when they assumed they were leaving. If they saw them outside in the parking lot that makes it more plausible that they left together. However, if the 2 teachers saw them in the school and assumed they were leaving, that's not as plausible.

If LE has no proof one way or the other that he left with his step-mom and she is saying they didn't leave together, well then LE would still need to handle this case as any other missing child's case and conduct searches, etc...

 

[SuziQ]

Actually, the home and car would be the VERY first place searched according to police protocol. They WOULD have been taken under police control and processed as a crime scene and it takes FAR more than a mere visual inspection to see if anything is amiss. The police look for evidence and the first place they would look is in the home and car of the person the witness said they saw them with.....THAT info. just came directly from a text I got from a detective friend. "There would be NO family access to a car or home that belongs to a person who WITNESSES said left the area with a missing child. NONE! until it has thoroughly been processed as a crime scene by forensics" end quote and since I can't give his name and badge number.....I am willing to post this as an opinion---

That would be if the crime took place at home right? FWIW, the Anthony's house wasn't roped off and searched until Caylee's body was found.

 

[pufnstuf]

Whether there are two teachers that think they saw him with his step mother or not, I still think the other searches would go on.

Eyewitness testimony is wildly unreliable.

What if they say two weeks from now they aren't sure if it was the morning in question or the day before? Everyone would go postal saying he might have been found had they looked for him.

If you look at the research on eyewitness testimony you will see how often it is inaccurate, completely incorrect, or changes over time.

Without some other piece of evidence to show it would be irresponsible to focus the entire search on those sightings, if they even exist.

I agree... and by looking at the search map that shows areas marked that have been searched, it's obvious that some places were targeted for search for some reason other than Kyron walking off, because they were away from the school and in areas disconjoined with other search areas.

Searchers have good hearts. I don't think that they're resentful at all. Everything I've read is that they appreciated the way they were treated in Portland and some even joked about being hired on in Portland, because it's such a congenial city.

It is a beautiful place. I envy those of you who live there. My cousin was a big wahoo in Portland government back in the 90s before his death, and I had the pleasure of visiting the city. It has it's own charm and personality.

 

[GrainneDhu]

That's pretty much the way child predators work: can abduct a child right out of school, out of their bedroom, living room, walking home from school, riding a bike, walking 50 feet to a friends, and it goes on and on.

This reminds me of a prank pulled at the university in the town where I spent my youth. In one of the buildings on campus, there was a piece of art mounted on the wall that a group of students felt was of no value. As a joke, four of them walked into the building in the middle of the day, used power tools to partially disassemble and demount the art from the wall and walked out with it.

Imagine their surprise when no one noticed the artwork was gone for over a week. Further imagine their surprise when all heck broke loose after someone did notice because the university had paid in the five figures for it!

They didn't go to any lengths to conceal their identities or to disguise themselves, they just walked in and started working like they belonged there and were supposed to be doing that. Even though the building was full of people, no one noticed.

The artwork was returned intact and the students were disciplined. But I've never forgotten that if a person acts like they belong in a certain situation, very few people will actually notice them.

 

[Jaxson]

Yeah, I could see it taking a week to get those records. They started looking in Sauvie Island on Friday, the ground search ended Saturday so it makes sense. Something brought them there and unless there is an unknown POI (and there could be) I could see it taking a week for a search warrant and all paperwork to be done.

Is the cell ping info a fact now? I don't need a link, (I trust you guys) but I thought it was just a guess. If it is fact now please somebody tell me. I musta missed it!

 

[CharlestonGal]

*respectfully snipped*



I agree with you about everything. The school year was coming to an end. Time was running out. Desperation was setting in. I also agree the crime took place at the second location.

I have also stated on this board I, too, felt this crime was planned very carefully. I am really intrigued by your comment about similar plans that may have been made in the past and then wisely aborted at the last minute. I was thinking along those lines to a certain degree, but more so plotted out in the mind, many times, many different ways, but actually I am now inclined to agree with you about actual aborted plans and think that is a brilliant deduction on your part. Sorry to say, as this is all so very sad and heart breaking.

Yes, there is real evil in the world. I think the crime planned that morning would have been aborted immediately if things had not gone exactly as planned and I think the perpetrator was prepared to back out if the slightest thing went wrong. None one would have been the wiser either.

 

[JBean]

JBean, I didn't want to repeat some of the Caylee rumors I've heard for fear someone would come by and run with it, but you are right! Some of them have been totally unfounded! :yow:

Some of them? How about all of them LOL. As you well know, some were quite elaborate and came from "inside sources" in LE. Someone's brother's girlfriend works for LE and he told his sister and she told her boyfriends mother and she told her second cousin's best friend and she told her mother's nephew and his son posted it on the comment section on an online article. Practically straight from LE!

 

[suzet]

And before I turn in for the night, I wanted to tell Caring Citizen that their parking lot posts have not gone unnoticed by me. I have been pondering over the parking lot as well. I have gone over the photos trying to figure out the easiest way someone could leave the building without being seen. I noticed some open buildings in the parking lot and wondered what those buildings were. Could a car park inside one of them for a short time or are there barriers preventing that?

I also noticed a grassy slope around part of the school that perhaps, if someone was walking down there at the bottom of the slope and walked out to the road, would they be seen from the school?

Anyhow, thanks for your helfpul observations. I would like to look more into the parking lot.

This is Caring Citizens post:
This is a very interesting observation. I am also curious about where they parked the morning of the science fair. The lot doesn't look that big so I imagine many cars parked far away or on the main road.

Did SM and KH park far away or were they in a space up close with others getting in and out of their cars?

If they parked far away and the dear child was instructed to go back to the car to wait/meet, this might greatly reduce the chances of someone seeing this boy get back into his own family's car and might explain why

1) no one saw the child and his step parent 'leave together'
2) no one saw either of them at the school after 8:45-9am

Coupling that with your observation seems even more interesting to me.