OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #15

[Calliope]

If LE had two reliable witnesses saying that they saw with whom he was leaving, there would have been NO search of the woods behind the school, no dogs tracking the school grounds, not THREE or more searches of the school, the person whose car he supposedly got into would not have unrestrained access to that car to go to the gym, nor would a liason police officer or anyone else be allowed to continue living in a home that had not been processed as a crime scene. If there were witnesses to him leaving the area the dog tracking and search grids would have begun from another address entirely.
Once again, logic should prevail over rumor. You don't search for a child in a building that witnesses have reported seeing him leave.

jmo

Not when some are determined to crucify certain people.

I read the FB crap. Or rather as much as I could stomach.

 

[pufnstuf]

Given the circumstances and the information that we do have from LE, I'd be willing to hear any LOGICAL explanation for how Kyron disappeared.

We know that other children are not in danger.

We know that this is an isolated incident.

We know that this is a criminal investigation.

I don't have any desire to "crucify" anyone. The facts lead me to speculate the way I have. What rumor I've heard just happens to fit what the facts, to me, support.

So I'd be interested in hearing plausible, logical theories that don't amount to a crucifixion. (???)

 

[ms.romo]

Opinions vary and many frequently co-exist in my brain at any given time. That being said, I cannot seem to shake the ransom/vendetta theories. Of course, the longer this drags on and the more bodies of water LE searches, the less any theory that carries any hope whatsoever can continue to exist. SAR operations never really fit in with the Ransom Theory. It threw the whole thing off. Minus the whole digging in the woods and bodies of water thing, I believe that most everything else points toward this..."odd" e-mail to Intel employees, "odd" press conferences, "oddly" worded statements from the family, major LE secrecy, seemingly compliant media...not asking "tough" questions...not getting any stories from locals, statements like: "wrapped up by the end of the week"...IDK. We've suspected this was a criminal investigation from the beginning...a la the principal's "grammatical error." Not sure that LE calling off SAR really means anything significant. Until I see some more info, I think I'll be glad that he wasn't found in the wilderness. "We know where he is NOT."

This is all a ramble and nothing ground breaking that you just read here. I'm all shades of fired up tonight over bullies (as in ANYONE who picks on kids and intends to harm them in ANY way) who refuse to pick on someone their own size. Cowards!

It makes my skin crawl to know that I am about to go hop into my safe, warm bed and sleep while Kyron is....???? Hungry? Hurt? Afraid? Scared to go to close his eyes?

I have fallen madly in love with a bespectacled, snaggle-toothed, Sketcher-wearing, CSI-watching, red eyed tree frog-loving, artistic, smiley 7 year old boy that I have never met and I really, really, really need for this boy to get home and get back to the business of being a smiling 7 year old. Nothing is more important. Nothing.

 

[CharlestonGal]

What is baffling to me is that there has not been a vocal group of family/friends/coworkers/neighbors talking to the media and stating positive things about the family.

In the e-mail by KH posted on the lawblog, he specifically asks everybody NOT to talk to the media. I found that a bit curious. Why would he not want people talking to the media if his child was "lost" in the woods, and what did he want people not to tell? This was on day 3. Terri also made a statement that people should not listen to the media (they had it all wrong, or some such). That was on day 2 or 3 as well.

http://ackerlaw.com/posts/2010/06/07/missing_child__kyron_horman_7

 

[txsvicki]

I haven't really been following all the details in this case since Kyron is about the same age as my grandson and it's too scary and upsetting. But, I did catch JVM at the very end of a segment and they were criticizing the family! This is very upsetting, because a science fair at school would be a perfect time for some nutty pedophile to slip in and mingle and perhaps catch a child wandering near an exit. The teachers at my grandson's school are so nosy that I could see them remembering people who might not belong or who were talking to someone else's kid. Surely someone saw something. Even a nutty mother or grandparent could have done something. Sandra Cantu's murderer was one that would have been very unexpected and there are lots of nuts out running around that should be looked at instead of suspecting the family's actions on national TV.

 

[DairyGirl]

Given the circumstances and the information that we do have from LE, I'd be willing to hear any LOGICAL explanation for how Kyron disappeared.

We know that other children are not in danger.

We know that this is an isolated incident.

We know that this is a criminal investigation.

I don't have any desire to "crucify" anyone. The facts lead me to speculate the way I have. What rumor I've heard just happens to fit what the facts, to me, support.

So I'd be interested in hearing plausible, logical theories that don't amount to a crucifixion. (???)

I agree with you. I can't come up with one single scenerio that makes sense other then this. The problem is we aren't privy to what LE knows. A lot of no comments and variations. I don't think anyone out of place was at the science fair or LE would put out a sketch or ask the public to look for someone. If it is how I think it is then there should be an arrest soon, I would hope. A confession would be nice, whoever took him but I guess that is too much too hope for. Maybe, in spite of what they said, they are waiting until they find him to make a move. Hopefully tomorrow will bring more information, maybe good news, though I have to admit I've given up on that. Miracles happen!

 

[pufnstuf]

In the e-mail by KH posted on the lawblog, he specifically asks everybody NOT to talk to the media. I found that a bit curious. Why would he not want people talking to the media if his child was "lost" in the woods, and what did he want people not to tell? This was on day 3. Terri also made a statement that people should not listen to the media (they had it all wrong, or some such). That was on day 2 or 3 as well.

http://ackerlaw.com/posts/2010/06/07/missing_child__kyron_horman_7

IF, and that's a bolded IF, this ends up with two parents involved in this, even one the perp, one after the fact...

too terrible to even fathom.

 

[ms.romo]

One more thing before I go to sleep and I am sorry if this is odd…

I read an article that suggested an abductor (if there is one in this case) would likely seek out information regarding the investigation. It makes sense, given that I google myself from time to time.

To that end, I would just like to say that if you have Kyron or are in any way responsible for his disappearance, you made a terrible choice that has caused pain for a lot of people. The good news about choices is that even when we make bad ones, we can still turn it all around by doing the right thing.

What is the right thing?

1.) If you have Kyron, allow him to go. He is just a little boy. I'm assuming you are a grown-up. You had the right to grow up and live a full life. You have to allow Kyron to have that same right. He's missing out on the life he is supposed to be living. Do the right thing. You will feel so much better. I promise.

2.) If you are responsible for something that happened to Kyron...you have hurt a lot of people. But, you would help our hearts heal a little by allowing us to know where he is. You won't have to hold all of that torment inside anymore, allowing your own heart to feel some relief.

Whatever you've done, you have an opportunity to right your wrong in some way. It's really all in your hands. You have all of the power. Will you continue to use your power to cause pain and destruction? Or will you make the right choice and use your power for healing and goodness? I'm hoping you choose the latter for everyone involved...including yourself.

 

[Calliope]

From KING5.

Portland Public Schools spokesman Matt Shelby said two teachers saw Kyron with his mother and thought the two left school together. He said it was not uncommon for parents to pick up kids this way, so no suspicions were raised.

http://www.king5.com/news/local/NW-Portland-second-grader-still-missing-Saturday-95689114.html

And possibly an additional witness saw this, but that's considered rumor for now.

The statement that the teachers 'thought the two left school together' does not equate to them actually seeing Kyron and TH leave together. It's simply how our minds work:


Teachers see Kyron with TH.

Kyron is noticed to be absent.

Therefore he must have left with TH.

 

[CharlestonGal]

IF, and that's a bolded IF, this ends up with two parents involved in this, even one the perp, one after the fact...

too terrible to even fathom.

It's my belief that those "don't talk to/listen to the media" statements do not pertain so much to the morning hours of June 4th as they do to a general "don't talk to/listen to the media" about the family history or current dynamics or problems. It's like KH says don't tell the media anything about us and Terri backs him up by saying, but if people do talk to the media nobody else should believe them. I've always wondered what Terri was worried the media would say that she didn't want us to believe. At that point all the media had said was that her stepchild was missing. Why should we not believe that?

 

[Calliope]

They had infrared and thermal on the blackhawk early on.

Wasn't it discussed on the earlier thread that the colonel stated in the PC that they were NOT using infrared ?

 

[Calliope]

Given the circumstances and the information that we do have from LE, I'd be willing to hear any LOGICAL explanation for how Kyron disappeared.

We know that other children are not in danger.

We know that this is an isolated incident.

We know that this is a criminal investigation.

I don't have any desire to "crucify" anyone. The facts lead me to speculate the way I have. What rumor I've heard just happens to fit what the facts, to me, support.

So I'd be interested in hearing plausible, logical theories that don't amount to a crucifixion. (???)

bbm

Where has LE stated that no other children are in danger?

 

[GrainneDhu]

Maybe. But we do know she told everyone right off the bat not to listen to the media because what they were saying was inaccurate. First or second day.

Well, as was extensively discussed on Websleuths, she was absolutely correct. Particularly in the first four days or so, there were a lot of inconsistencies in what was being reported, which caused a lot of confusion.

Which is par for the course, really.

 

[CharlestonGal]

bbm

Where has LE stated that no other children are in danger?

It was linked a few pages back. I'm having trouble keeping up, too! This thread moves so fast.

"Although Kyron's disappearance is now classified as a criminal investigation, Gates said authorities still believe it's an isolated case and that there is "no reason to believe that kids are in any danger." "

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/search_for_kyron_horman_switch.html

ETA: Gates is LE

 

[mommya]

The chipmunk and native sun type picture might go along with a lesson plan for this book...

"How Chipmunk Got His Stripes"

google it - you will see that it is a book for his age level that also teaches about bullying.

It has the sun theme - and the chipmunk too - and is Native American folklore.

 

[GrainneDhu]

And, the release today, saying they are going back to the area of the school, canvassing the neighborhood again. In light of the other things, that confuses me. What are the looking for now, if not a suspect, and they are clearly not looking for a suspect anymore, if ever.

I asked my friend K, who is a SAR dog handler and who helped in the last couple days of the search, if she thought there was any chance Kyron's body could be in the searched area, despite the search.

She said that there were places where the brambles were so thick or the terrain so difficult, that it was possible someone could walk within feet of a body and not realise it. She didn't think that had happened but it was possible.

I know from my own experience in SAR, dogs are wonderful and can do amazing things but they are not omniscient. No one wants to be part of a search where it is later discovered that one or more searchers passed close to the body but it happens. SAR handlers basically give themselves a second part time job spent in training and studying but that doesn't make them infallible either.

My impression is that the reason the reward is for locating Kyron is because LE can't rule anything out yet with any certainty.

Statements about an "isolated incident"? Sounds like standard LE assurances to me. Including in cases where it turned out that there was something to worry about (the Robert Pickton case, for example). The odds are heavily in favour of this being an isolated incident and community panic is never a good thing.

 

[pufnstuf]

The statement that the teachers 'thought the two left school together' does not equate to them actually seeing Kyron and TH leave together. It's simply how our minds work:


Teachers see Kyron with TH.

Kyron is noticed to be absent.

Therefore he must have left with TH.

I haven't seen any direct statements from teachers. That's about as close as it gets.

I think I said earlier, though, that there's another RUMORED witness that puts them leaving together.

 

[pufnstuf]

It's my belief that those "don't talk to/listen to the media" statements do not pertain so much to the morning hours of June 4th as they do to a general "don't talk to/listen to the media" about the family history or current dynamics or problems. It's like KH says don't tell the media anything about us and Terri backs him up by saying, but if people do talk to the media nobody else should believe them. I've always wondered what Terri was worried the media would say that she didn't want us to believe. At that point all the media had said was that her stepchild was missing. Why should we not believe that?

That's pretty brilliant, CG, and I think completely plausible.

 

[nurseratchett]

Kyron: definition, "from the land of Owen"
Owen: definition, "born of youth"

Kyron- the land of youth. :frog:

Kyron,

Hi.....I hope you'll be home with your family today. We are all thinking of and missing you, every day. Til you're home, we'll be waiting.

 

[Calliope]

I haven't seen any direct statements from teachers. That's about as close as it gets.

I think I said earlier, though, that there's another RUMORED witness that puts them leaving together.

So nothing from the teachers that they saw Kyron leave the building with TH?