OR - Militia members occupy federal building in Oregon after protest #1

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  • #161
A couple of recommendations for those following the story on Twitter:

@LesZaitz -- Les Zaitz, The Oregonian

@JJMacNab -- JJ MacNab, Forbes Magazine
 
  • #162
So I guess the Hammonds will turn themselves in today. The federal prison is in Sheridan Oregon, about 30 miles northeast of the capital Salem, and about 335 miles from the Hammonds home of Diamond Oregon. Doesn't sound like the locals are very enthusiastic about these militia groups coming to the area.

http://www.capitalpress.com/Oregon/...rters-distance-themselves-from-militia-groups

“The Bundy group seems to be rubbing quite a few people the wrong way,” she said.

Their tactics may be too aggressive for a county heavily dependent on government employment, Molt said. “Bundy’s direction would put more than half of the people in this county out of a job,” she said.

I hate to say it but they're not thinking about putting people out of work. As far as that goes, AFAIK they're not thinking much period..
 
  • #163
I think the future implcations of this, in the climate we are in, are trecherous and very dangerous.

Local LE in all arenas are swapped. I think this should just be turned over to miltary just for staffing reasons alone.IMO
 
  • #164
Context still matters.

The key players in this episode were also keys/participants in the 2014 Bundy ranch nonsense.

This series of articles by Forbes.com contributor JJ MacNab is a concise assessment of these folks' ideology, tactics, and history.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jjmacnab/2014/04/30/context-matters-the-cliven-bundy-standoff-part-1/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jjmacnab/2014/05/02/context-matters-the-cliven-bundy-standoff-part-2/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jjmacnab/2014/05/06/context-matters-the-cliven-bundy-standoff-part-3/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jjmacnab/2014/05/09/context-matters-the-cliven-bundy-standoff-part-4/

Therefore, to rally the American public into action, the Sovereign leaders need a big event, a shot heard round the world, a catalyst to cause citizens to aim their guns at government employees and for the U.S. military troops to abandon their posts and join the revolution. Over the years, the armed standoff has been by far the most effective technique in gaining publicity and new recruits to the cause, and the movement doesn’t seem to care that the press they attract paints them as violent fools, rather than patriots.

The history of the patriot standoff goes back decades. Gordon Kahl in the 1980s, the Montana Freemen in the 1990s, Edward and Elaine Brown in the 2000s, all played David to the federal government’s Goliath. A sovereign named John Joe Gray has even been holed up in his Texas compound now for fourteen years.

Obviously, none of these events triggered a revolution. The early 1990s government standoffs involving the Branch Davidian compound at Waco, Texas, and the family of white separatist Randy Weaver in Ruby Ridge, Idaho, were different. In these confrontations, women and children died, and the modern militia movement grew rapidly in response. These events were also what prompted Timothy McVeigh to bomb the federal building in Oklahoma City. McVeigh had hoped that by blowing up a building filled with federal employees, he could make his place in history as the next Patrick Henry.
 
  • #165
MSM rarely covers things here that have the word ' militia ' in them. When it ends, you 'll see why .

when I firsst heard apaalled, I a however happy to report that CNN had finally caught up with the rest of us, it was there "Top of the fold"(!) Headline:
[h=1]Oregon occupation? Call it a 'Y'all Qaeda' attack, say Internet users[/h]
why aren't they being called — you know, terrorists?

many question whether occupiers' whiteness is affording them a different set of rules.

[video=cnn;tv/2016/01/03/oregon-ranchers-take-over-wildlife-building.cnn]http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/04/us/oregon-standoff-social-media-reaction/index.html[/video]

Its kind of a fair question

Lets check it out

calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against government conduct; and
check


some tweets :
The first hashtag was #OregonStandoff. I didn't think that actually captured what was happening. If PoC did this it'd be #OregonUnderAttack

true!

Did I miss the call for the national guard in Oregon? I recall them in Ferguson and Baltimore. #OregonUnderAttack


true

#YallQaeda waging #YeeHawd on America and we're still calling it a "peaceful protest." It's domestic terrorism and we need to shut it down.

Isnt it suppossed to be American does not negioate with terrorists?

Tomm headlines:


An armed family of 6 has taken over a McDonalds on fifth street as a result of cold french fries.

They wanna protest - protest! Without guns, and not in taxpayer funded facilites. IMO

An I am not a violent person, I have never seen a real gun, know anyone who has seen a real gun (as far as I know) but I am sorry--folks you have an hour to get out of the publics building or we shall assist you in your leaving the property.

Now , that particular building Y'all (!) who really cares. Its the principal.

IMO something like this right now going on is very dangeroues , we are a very angry country right now and allowing this to go on just sends a message that is dangerous for out society as whole.

Basically I think our Congressmen are a bunch of currupt old men...but I cant be taking over buildings becaaue the stuff they pass is silliness.

How they handle this is crucial. But again I thought the tweet about "standoff" vs attack is righ on the money. And as long as those in power beleive this is standoff- nonsense will ensue. If and when they can grasp this is an attack (taking over a building while armed is an attack - think "Die Hard"!!_

Worrisome.............





  • acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law; check
  • Appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation ) to affect the conduct of a government check
 
  • #166
"We're planning on staying here for years, absolutely," he added. "This i

you silly person - hey its our federal building and its our electricity , and its our water, so if the govt decides it is no longer going to pay the bill, then whatcha do mr thought out.

Be real cool if they james bond em and make all their cell phones not go out, hungry,thirsty, in the dark, or heat or cold, then what ya gonna do Mr Big Boy??


link fromearlier post that had the quote

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-no...ith_quiet.html
 
  • #167
  • #168
"Prosecutors said the Hammonds set a fire that burned about 130 acres in 2001, to cover up poaching. They were sentenced to five years in prison."...
..."The Hammonds, who are set to turn themselves in Monday afternoon, have said they set the fire to reduce the growth of invasive plants and to protect their property from wildfires, CNN affiliate KTVZ reported."
[video=cnn;us/2016/01/03/oregon-armed-protesters-occupy-federal-land-sandoval-dnt.cnn]http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/03/us/oregon-wildlife-refuge-protest/index.html[/video]

Trying to figure out the crux of the argument.

Ya allll handing matches to a 13 year old, and telling him to light up everything (right along the property line) does not sound like brush clearing to me !!
 
  • #169
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...hrow-government-says-sheriff?CMP=share_btn_tw

Bundy concluded by outlining his vision of the structure and powers of government in the US, as laid down in the constitution.

“The federal government’s job is to protect the states from the outside world,” he said. “The states’ job is to protect the counties from the federal government. The counties’ job is to protect the people from the states.

“And the people’s job is to be free.”
 
  • #170
Its long so i am gonna do some serious, but quick snipping!

he Harney Basin (were the Hammond ranch is established) was settled in the 1870’s.
have run over 300,000 head of cattle. developed a state of the art irrigated system (ab) In 1908 President Theodor Roosevelt, in a political scheme, create an “Indian reservation” around the Malheur, Mud & Harney Lakes
Later this “Indian reservation” (without Indians) became the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.

(a) In 1964 the Hammonds purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.

(a1) By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur 187,000 acres and stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide.


times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.

(a2) During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told that, “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”. 32 out of 53 permits were revoked

and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised

(a3) By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations

intentional diverted the water to bypassing the vast meadowlands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes.

Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a

1990’s the Hammonds were one of the very few ranchers that still owned private property adjacent to the refuge.

Wildlife Service (FWS) found out that the Hammonds obtained new water rights near the Malhuer Wildlife Refuge, they were agitated and became belligerent and vindictive towards the Hammonds.

The US Fish and Wildlife Service challenged the Hammonds right to the water in an Oregon State Circuit Court. The court found that the Hammonds legally obtained rights to the water i

(c) In August 1994 the BLM & FWS illegally began building a fence around the Hammonds water source. Owning the water rights and knowing that their cattle relied on that water source daily the Hammonds tried to stop the building of the fence.

The BLM & FWS called the Harney County Sheriff department and had Dwight Hammond (Father) arrested and charged with “disturbing and interfering with” federal officials or federal contractors (two counts, each a felony).

restricting access to upper pieces of the Hammond’s private property. In order to get to the upper part of the Hammond’s ranch they had to go on a road that went through the Malhuer Wildlife Refuge. The FWS began barricading the road and threatening the Hammonds if they drove through it. The Hammonds removed the barricades

(e) Shortly after the road & water disputes, the BLM & FWS arbitrarily revoked the Hammond’s upper grazing permit without any given cause, court proceeding or court ruling

. As a traditional “fence out state” Oregon requires no obligation on the part of an owner to keep his or her livestock within a fence

federal judge ruled, in a federal court, that the federal government did not have to observe the Oregon fence out law. “Those laws are for the people, not for them”.

(f) The Hammonds were forced to either build and maintain miles of fences or be restricted from the use of their private property. so the cattle were removed.

(g) The Hammonds experienced many years of financial hardship

Hammonds had to sale their ranch and home in order to purchase another property that had enough grass to feed their cattle.

(i) In the early fall of 2001, Steven Hammond (Son) called the fire department, informing them that he was going to be performing a routine prescribed burn on their ranch. Later that day he started a prescribed fire on their private property. The fire went onto public land and burned 127 acres of grass. The Hammonds put the fire out themselves.

... To prevent the fire from destroying their winter range and possibly their home, Steven Hammond (Son) started a backfire on their private property. The backfire was successful in putting out the lightning fires

Hammond said: “The backfire worked perfectly, it put out the fire, saved the range and possibly our home”.

(j1) The next day agents went to the Harney County Sheriff’s office and filled a police report making accusation against Dwight and Steven Hammond for starting the backfire.

Both Dwight and Steven were booked and on multiple Oregon State charges. The Harney County District Attorney reviewed the accusation, evidence and charges, and determined that the accusations against Dwight & Steven Hammond did not warrant prosecution and dropped all the charges.

(k) In 2011, 5 years after the police report was taken, the U.S. Attorney Office accused Dwight and Steven Hammond of completely different charges, they accused them of being “Terrorist” under the Federal Antiterrorism Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996.

mug shots were all over the news the next week posing them as “Arsonists”. Susan Hammond (Wife & Mother) said:

....endangered firefighters and other people in the area while burning valuable rangeland.

September 2006, Dwight & Susan Hammond’s home was raided. Tfor evidence that would connect them to the fires.

(n) During the trial proceedings, Federal Court Judge Michael Hogan did not allow time for certain testimonies and evidence into the

. Much of the facts about the fires, land and why the Hammonds acted the way they did was not allowed into the proceedings and was not heard by the jury.

. Dusty Hammond (grandson and nephew) testified that Steven told him to start a fire. He was 13 at the time and 24 when he testified (11 years later). At 24 Dusty had been suffering with mental problems for many years.

(p) Judge Michael Hogan & Frank Papagni tampered with the jury many times throughout the proceedings, including during the selection process.

On the final day, Judge Hogan kept pushing them to make a verdict. Several times during deliberation, Judge Hogan pushed them to make a decision. Judge Hogan also would not allow the jury to hear what punishment could be imposed upon an individual that has convicted as a terrorist under the 1996 act.

(q) June 22, 2012, Dwight and Steven were found guilty of starting both the 2001 and the 2006 fires by the jury. However, the federal courts convicted them both as “Terrorist” under the 1996 Antiterrorism Act. Judge Hogan sentenced Dwight (Father) to 3 months in prison and Steven (son) to 12 months in federal prison. They were also stipulated to pay $400,000 to the BLM.

(cruel and unusual punishment). The day of the sentencing Judge Hogan retired as a federal judge.

(r) On January 4,, 2013, Dwight and Steven reported to prison. They fulfilled their sentences, (Dwight 3 months, Steven 12 months).

(s) Sometime in June 2014, Rhonda an appeal with the 9th District Federal Court seeking Dwight’s and Steven’s return to federal prison for the entire 5 years.*

(t) In October 2015, the 9th District Court “resentenced” Dwight and Steven, requiring them to return to prison for several more years. Steven (46) has a wife and 3 children. Dwight (74) will leave Susan (74) to be alone after 55 years of marriage.

(u) During the court preceding the Hammonds were forced to grant the BLM first right of refusal. If the Hammonds ever sold their ranch they would have to sell it to the BLM.

(v) Dwight and Steven are ordered to report to federal prison again on January 4th, 2016 to begin their re-sentencing. .

To date they have paid $200,000 to the BLM, and the remainder $200,000 must be paid before the end of this year (2015).

If the Hammonds cannot pay the fines to the BLM, they will be forced to sell the ranch to the BLM or face further prosecution.

Ran thro quick spell check your safe !

Ok, I learned a lot .......they have a grievance, but doing it this way isnt' how it is done. To be quite honest guys some cattle and land etc not world - my big deal here when learning what was going on was , there is so much copy cat cause of internet, this could blow up into all kinds of people, over all kinds of issues

and in a very dramatic way this is the same cr#p going on over Iraq etc etc --talking over stuff by using guns and threats

thats all we need now with all this other sh$t happening like every third day there are only a limited amount of resources.

In terms of copy cats, people with suciide vests dont care much. But for people that are pissed but do care somewhat about living or dying an example must be set here - so that the ones that are inclined to protest in this fashion, clearly see this stuff will not be tolerated.

It is also a problematic angle , if this goes on and on , those who want infamy fame and news coverage that too is gonna a problem

just mo

Letter to Harney County Sheriff - David Ward: http://bundyranch.blogspot.com/2015/11/letter-to-sheriff-ward-harney-county.html

Facts & Events : http://bundyranch.blogspot.com/2015/11/facts-events-in-hammond-case.html

Violations, Corruptions and Abuses: http://bundyranch.blogspot.com/2015/11/violations-corruptions-and-abuses-in.html

Conclusion: http://bundyranch.blogspot.com/2015/11/conclusion-in-hammonds-case.html

Letter to Government Official and Aware Citizens: http://bundyranch.blogspot.com/2015/11/hammond-

/
 
  • #171
In this day and age that would never fly, that's cruel and unusual punishment. I know for me I'd rather be water boarded or even put on the rack than that..

I sense you have Justins entire cd collection!
 
  • #172
Some wondered earlier why this isn't receiving MSM coverage. The occupation was the lead story when I looked at CNN online around 9:00 a.m. PST this morning, so I would say it received immediate national attention. I almost started a thread, but I didn't have time. :)

I had occasion to study the Patriot groups and the Militia in 2013. An Oregon miner named Lennie Ames had a very active YouTube channel promoting these groups and had many followers. He was the boyfriend of Stephanie Warner who disappeared July 4, 2013 from Ruch, Oregon. (If you can see my signature, you can link to her threads.) Even before he was named a POI (and recently a suspect) in this case, I was sleuthing him. Viewing the videos, I realized immediately that he was a very dangerous man. Further research convinced me that these are very dangerous groups. At the time I even wondered if LE seemed to be moving slowly in Stephanie's case because of the danger he presented to the community if they pushed too hard.

These groups are extremists who feel that they are above the law because they are "protecting" the constitution from the government. Militia groups come out of the Patriot Movement according to Wikipedia. Read the link to understand the variety of their beliefs.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_movement

This is not the first militia event in Oregon recently. Last spring they were called in by a miner in Josephine County in Southern Oregon who was in a dispute with the BLM to protect his mining claim.
http://www.oregonlive.com/environment/index.ssf/2015/05/judge_bars_blm_enforcement_in.html

Because these groups thrive on anti-government conspiracy and persecution theories, I can understand why the authorities are not going in for a confrontation. The government is between a rock and a hard place because any action it takes will escalate the situation and also motivate more people to join these groups. Although the occupation in Harney County may eventually end, the threat from these groups will continue. JMO

nice post ty

but, see for your reasons outlined above I think they really need to STOP this now - so others know this is not acceptable to civilzed society . Will it erase all those folks, and add some yep, but the bottom line IMO has to be we aint putting up with this.
 
  • #173
Harney county has a population of less than 7,500 people. Everyone knows everyone and I wouldn't be surprised if the judge was their friend and that was the exact reason.

My father lives fairly close to there and was a politician in a nearby region for decades. There is definitely a "Good ole boys" club out in Eastern Oregon and they really do stupidly illegal things and think that they are above the law because they are friends with all of the police.

My gosh Washington DC !!
 
  • #174
Their words. They talk tough and have a lot of picket signs. That will show the Federal Government.

But if that doesn't worked they are also heavily armed.

SABBM

Agreed , and with gun ownership comes responsibility.
This group reminds me of a gathering of Randy Weaver's. And in the Weaver case--- the government did what it had to do when forced--- that is, deal with domestic terrorists.
:moo:
 
  • #175
I think the government needs to raid the place. I just hope none of the casaulties are on the government side. But they cannot let this go on any longer.
 
  • #176
I think the future implcations of this, in the climate we are in, are trecherous and very dangerous.

Local LE in all arenas are swapped. I think this should just be turned over to miltary just for staffing reasons alone.IMO

I don't support this at all, tbh. JMO though!
 
  • #177
nice post ty

but, see for your reasons outlined above I think they really need to STOP this now - so others know this is not acceptable to civilzed society . Will it erase all those folks, and add some yep, but the bottom line IMO has to be we aint putting up with this.

I understand why you say that the government needs to stop the occupation right now. No, occupying federal property isn't acceptable in civilized society, but I also understand why the government may not go in for a confrontation. I don't have an opinion about the best way to handle this. As I said, the government is between a rock and a hard place because any action or non-action on their part will have undesirable repercussions. The government has to choose its poison.

My personal opinion is that no matter what the government does, these groups will spin it to their advantage and will not stop. They want a confrontation with the government. They are on a mission and are convinced that God is on their side, like other groups wreaking havoc on the world stage. They are willing to be martyrs. I'm sorry to say that it's a no-win situation. I'm not at all surprised to see this happening here in Oregon, based on what I learned in 2013. JMO
 
  • #178
Speaking of unicorns, which we were at one point, this Huffington Post article says:

“A man who claimed his name was "Fluffy Unicorn," and said he was a "bodyguard" for the Bundys, stands at the foot of the road. Law enforcement has made no effort to contact the occupiers, he said.”

Its a good article, actually, and talks about the government biding their time, which makes sense to me.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/oregon-militia-fbi_568a831ae4b0b958f65c1bfa
 
  • #179
  • #180
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