OR - Militia members occupy federal building in Oregon after protest #1

[Betty P]

Who or what owns the Grand Canyon?

We, the taxpayers, own it.

 

[CARIIS]

CNN National Security Analyst Juliette Kayyem is a professor at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, a former assistant secretary in the U.S. Department of Homeland Security and founder of Kayyem Solutions, a security consulting firm. She is the host of the "Security Mom" podcast and author of a forthcoming book, "Security Mom: An Unclassified Guide to Protecting Our Homeland and Your Home.

Here are her thoughts - she great during terrorist attacks - she bright knows her stuff and calls it as she sees it:

Let's begin with what to call the Oregon anti-government protesters who have taken over a federal building. The men, heavily armed, urging others to come support their cause, and claiming somehow that, while peaceful, they will "defend" themselves whatever it takes, are -- by any definition -- domestic terrorists.

It does not matter that they insist they are peaceful ............... I can claim I'm 26 years old and a size 2 and that still doesn't make it true.

<modsnip>

What to do

Given that their aim amounts to domestic terrorism, any strategy to get them out of the building must, then, take into account a number of federal concerns and priorities....

Violence should be avoided at all costs. .....in the process of resolving the standoff, teach them (and others) a lesson or two.

How do the feds do that?

First, time is on their side. No question about that. .... federal response should be akin to, "We got all day. And night. And another day......

And are you getting hungry? Possibly thirsty? Bored? Are you wondering why you are here in the first place?.....

<modsnip>

Rule of law is paramount

Finally, while the presence of federal troops might make the situation more tense than it already is, the Obama administration needs to make a statement with this organization and future domestic terrorists....
.
.....the administration should be ready to mobilize federal military support

<modsnip>

http://www.kesq.com/news/kayyem-face-it-oregon-takeover-is-terrorism/37249068

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/03/opinions/kayyem-oregon-building-takeover-terrorism/index.html

 

[Frigga]

Yeah- the spin is amazing.

 

[Tillicum]

Scholars are already comparing it to the Sage Brush Rebellions of 1970s and 1990s. In those range wars, conservatives wanted the land transferred back to private or state ownership, or at least opened up to oil, timber, and mineral grabs.

They lost: Courts nullified the legal arguments. Voters punished the politicians. National public opinion polls showed that a majority of Americans support federal land management. But the argument is back, spurred by President Obama's efforts to protect more than a million acres of federal land&#8212;more than any other president, according to the Wilderness Society.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...otesters-political-reaction-yallqaeda-n490031

I don't think the timing of this stand off is just a coincidence.

 

[K_Z]

I agree with pretty much all of what Juliette Kayyem espouses as a solution.

I happen to think we definitely should have mobilized military units and tanks for Baltimore and Ferguson, and dealt with that much more aggressively. Had we done that in Ferguson, Baltimore might have been avoided. This situation isn't even a fraction of a percent as violent or worrisome as either Ferguson or Baltimore was.

Sure, we can roll tanks into the Oregon wildlife refuge, but it simply isn't necessary! There aren't that many of them! And they are out in the open in a wildlife refuge, miles and miles from any hostages or civilian population threats-- or even buildings! And the weapons they DO have aren't that powerful! This situation isn't even as "dangerous" as your typical paintball facility.

A few retired special forces vets could quickly handle the situation, lol! But the tanks would look ever so much better on the nonstop cable news channels.

So the multimillion dollar question is, do we want to simply END the situation by the Bundy clan in the wildlife refuge in Oregon, or do we want to put on a big theatrical fiery reality news show on 187,000 acres of federal land, and play with big military toys?

Waiting isn't sexy. Tanks and grenade launchers are cooler, right?

 

[CARIIS]

mobilized military units and tanks for Baltimore and Ferguson,

Boy oh boy did we over react in Ferguson, threw everything out of control. But the reason it did so is cause the core issue of those very real problems (cops gone nuts) made the over response trecherous.

I agree with pretty much all of what Juliette Kayyem espouses as a solution.

I happen to think we definitely should have mobilized military units and tanks for Baltimore and Ferguson, and dealt with that much more aggressively. Had we done that in Ferguson, Baltimore might have been avoided. This situation isn't even a fraction of a percent as violent or worrisome as either Ferguson or Baltimore was.

Sure, we can roll tanks into the Oregon wildlife refuge, but it simply isn't necessary! There aren't that many of them! And they are out in the open in a wildlife refuge, miles and miles from any hostages or civilian population threats-- or even buildings! And the weapons they DO have aren't that powerful! This situation isn't even as "dangerous" as your typical paintball facility.

A few retired special forces vets could quickly handle the situation, lol! But the tanks would look ever so much better on the nonstop cable news channels.

So the multimillion dollar question is, do we want to simply END the situation by the Bundy clan in the wildlife refuge in Oregon, or do we want to put on a big theatrical fiery reality news show on 187,000 acres of federal land, and play with big military toys?

Waiting isn't sexy. Tanks and grenade launchers are cooler, right?

 

[K_Z]

I also enjoy federally owned lands, national parks, and forests. I&#8217;d like to see the US government acquire more federally owned lands, and I&#8217;d like to see them throw these welfare ranchers off it, so the public can use it.

Without public lands, developers would own and use every square inch of land, and people would be prisoners in their own little cubicles. Thats not they type of place I want to live in.

What if your local or federal government decided they really like the place you live in, and they'd like you to please leave right now so they can use it as a free hotel for your fellow citizens?

Or maybe they don't think it's a nice enough place, so they want you to vacate so they can demolish it? And let your fellow citizens use it as a nature preserve and camping spot?

I think most people would be a bit upset about that.

 

[Tawny]

They used SANDPAPER on a human teenagers FLESH!?

 

[Tillicum]

Authorities plan to cut off power to militia at occupied Oregon refuge

A federal government official told the Guardian that authorities were planning on Monday to cut the power at the refuge.

&#8220;It&#8217;s in the middle of nowhere,&#8221; said the official, who is based in Washington, DC, and has knowledge of the planned response to the militia. &#8220;And it&#8217;s flat- cold up there.&#8221;

&#8220;After they shut off the power, they&#8217;ll kill the phone service,&#8221; the government official added. &#8220;Then they&#8217;ll block all the roads so that all those guys have a long, lonely winter to think about what they&#8217;ve done.&#8221;

 

[LaborDayRN]

What if your local or federal government decided they really like the place you live in, and they'd like you to please leave right now so they can use it as a free hotel for your fellow citizens?

Or maybe they don't think it's a nice enough place, so they want you to vacate so they can demolish it? And let your fellow citizens use it as a nature preserve and camping spot?

I think most people would be a bit upset about that.

You're so right. Most people would be upset. But it happens every day by local, state and federal government. Eminent domain.

I've not been able to find any information from MSM that mentions any land being taken from the Hammonds. The Bundy situation seems to stem from his use of government land to graze his cattle. If someone could share some information from MSM about land actually being taken from one of these guys I'd love to read it.

 

[LaborDayRN]

They used SANDPAPER on a human teenagers FLESH!?

Yep. Horrible.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Authorities plan to cut off power to militia at occupied Oregon refuge

A federal government official told the Guardian that authorities were planning on Monday to cut the power at the refuge.

&#8220;It&#8217;s in the middle of nowhere,&#8221; said the official, who is based in Washington, DC, and has knowledge of the planned response to the militia. &#8220;And it&#8217;s flat- cold up there.&#8221;

&#8220;After they shut off the power, they&#8217;ll kill the phone service,&#8221; the government official added. &#8220;Then they&#8217;ll block all the roads so that all those guys have a long, lonely winter to think about what they&#8217;ve done.&#8221;

I hope this will bring an end to the situation quickly and peacefully.

 

[Tillicum]

I hope this will bring an end to the situation quickly and peacefully.

From above link: Reached by phone around 10.30pm on Monday, Ammon Bundy, a key member of the the militia, said electricity in the refuge building was still functioning. He added: &#8220;We&#8217;re ready and waiting if the power should be shut down.&#8221;

Bundy has repeatedly said the group is prepared for the long-haul. However during a tour of the site on earlier in the day, the Guardian was shown a food storage room that did not look like it could sustain a dozen men for more than a few weeks.

It included a cardboard box of apples and oranges, a few dozen pots of instant ramen, 24 cans of chicken noodle soup, a similar number of cans of sweetcorn, peas, beans and chili, and 20 boxes of macaroni and cheese.

There were also three sacks of potatoes, one bag of flour, another of rolled oats, boxes of raisins, a single bag of pretzels and one granola bar.

 

[flourish]

What if your local or federal government decided they really like the place you live in, and they'd like you to please leave right now so they can use it as a free hotel for your fellow citizens?

Or maybe they don't think it's a nice enough place, so they want you to vacate so they can demolish it? And let your fellow citizens use it as a nature preserve and camping spot?

I think most people would be a bit upset about that.

Well right now I'm an Oregonian tax payer and I have squatters on my refuge and I don't like it. I do like it when fire fighters and officials are making the calls about where controlled proactive burns happen so campers and folks don't have to flee because someone decided to do it for them.

 

[flourish]

Authorities plan to cut off power to militia at occupied Oregon refuge

A federal government official told the Guardian that authorities were planning on Monday to cut the power at the refuge.

“It’s in the middle of nowhere,” said the official, who is based in Washington, DC, and has knowledge of the planned response to the militia. “And it’s flat- cold up there.”

“After they shut off the power, they’ll kill the phone service,” the government official added. “Then they’ll block all the roads so that all those guys have a long, lonely winter to think about what they’ve done.”

Yep it's unseasonably cold in these parts right now. Enjoy.

 

[Lilibet]

What if your local or federal government decided they really like the place you live in, and they'd like you to please leave right now so they can use it as a free hotel for your fellow citizens?

Or maybe they don't think it's a nice enough place, so they want you to vacate so they can demolish it? And let your fellow citizens use it as a nature preserve and camping spot?

I think most people would be a bit upset about that.

Yes, having my property taken/purchased by the government would be very upsetting. On the flip side, the public plaza and the sidewalks downtown in my community are occupied by "homeless" agitators from here and other areas who have decided that they are entitled to use it as their living room. I won't derail the thread discussing this, but I will say that their anti-government stance has very powerfully reduced my use of an area that I have a right to enjoy too.

Well right now I'm an Oregonian tax payer and I have squatters on my refuge and I don't like it. I also like it when fire fighters and officials are making the calls about where controlled proactive burns happen so campers and folks don't have to flee because someone decided to do it for them.

Don't get me started on squatters! See above. Also, the suspect in the case of Stephanie Warner in my signature is known for being a squatter. He moved into Stephanie's house after he "disappeared" her. Previously, he was even convicted in Oregon of living full time on his mining claim (illegal). He left huge piles of trash there when he fled the area. Some people think that what they perceive as their "right" to occupy public (or private) property supersedes the rights of anyone else.

Idk, but this attitude may actually impact more people than the government acquiring private land for public use. JMO, MOO, etc

 

[bluesneakers]

We, the taxpayers, own it.

We also own Yosemite, Glacier National, Acadia, Mount Rushmore, Yellowstone, Crater Lake...

I'm not sure which one I want to take over yet.

 

[Lilibet]

We also own Yosemite, Glacier National, Acadia, Mount Rushmore, Yellowstone, Crater Lake...

I'm not sure which one I want to take over yet.

Dibs on Yosemite Valley!

 

[bluesneakers]

From above link: Reached by phone around 10.30pm on Monday, Ammon Bundy, a key member of the the militia, said electricity in the refuge building was still functioning. He added: &#8220;We&#8217;re ready and waiting if the power should be shut down.&#8221;

Bundy has repeatedly said the group is prepared for the long-haul. However during a tour of the site on earlier in the day, the Guardian was shown a food storage room that did not look like it could sustain a dozen men for more than a few weeks.

It included a cardboard box of apples and oranges, a few dozen pots of instant ramen, 24 cans of chicken noodle soup, a similar number of cans of sweetcorn, peas, beans and chili, and 20 boxes of macaroni and cheese.

There were also three sacks of potatoes, one bag of flour, another of rolled oats, boxes of raisins, a single bag of pretzels and one granola bar.

These militia men are used to roughing it and they might have prepper tendencies. I believe them when they say they're prepared to be in this for the long haul.

 

[Snick1946]