OR - Militia members occupy federal building in Oregon after protest #1

[EllieBee]

That's true to a point sooner or later you'll run out of morons, I think.. It might take a pretty long time.

Nah. They breed and begat like flies. And then there is the radicalization of those not born into the crazy.

There will always be a fresh supply to man the ranks.

 

[renah]

Meanwhile in Texas...

Governor Abbott Unveils Texas Plan, Offers Constitutional Amendments To Restore The Rule Of Law

I believe the term for that is ingratitude, er, secession.

 

[Tawny]

I have watched many months of activists taking over crowded intersections, confronting drivers, kicking cars, setting cars on fire, walking against traffic in the middle of the road, shutting down businesses and council meetings, blocking entrances to stores, in dozens of cities. And in 90% of those incidents, the cops stepped back and allowed it all to happen, with little to no intervention. So I don't understand the 'white privilege' comments.

Again, protesters =/= rioters. That fact keeps being conveniently left out.

Protesters: Taking over intersections, walking against traffic, shutting down businesses and council meetings, blocking stores

Rioters: Kicking cars, setting cars on fire

 

[Lilibet]

Total agreement that this has always been more than a protest.

JMO, but I think the disparity in responses to the examples you give is due to threat assessment.

Protests, whether singular or serial, can be dealt with on case by case assessments.

This is a much larger threat. Not just because of who is there, but also because who and what is waiting in the wings.

Not to say that I think responses to protests haven't been met with an excess of force. I think they have been. MOO.

This is a whole different level of threat.

BBM

Thank you! This is the exact point I tried to make earlier and you did it better. This is absolutely more than a protest and is a much bigger threat than most people understand IMO. It is one of many small battles in a larger ideological war being waged against the government by people willing to be martyrs. If the government does not handle this very carefully, with the big picture clearly in view, the long range forecast is bleak. Excess force is never helpful, but in this particular situation it would be playing right along with the Militia/Patriot groups' game plan.
MOO

 

[EllieBee]

Total agreement that this has always been more than a protest.

JMO, but I think the disparity in responses to the examples you give is due to threat assessment.

Protests, whether singular or serial, can be dealt with on case by case assessments.

This is a much larger threat. Not just because of who is there, but also because who and what is waiting in the wings.

Not to say that I think responses to protests haven't been met with an excess of force. I think they have been. MOO.

This is a whole different level of threat.

Your response is thoughtful, and I do see your point. It does not make me any less sad or angry that people with little or no power are pushed down even further because they don't represent the level of threat these terrorists do.

But I do understand that we may be looking at the sort of cells usually only reported in Islamic terrorist groups. And since, relatively speaking, they are like "us" (clothing, language, live next door, etc) the threat is even scarier.

<modsnip>.

 

[Everyday Grace]

BURNS — Members of a group from outside Oregon arrived on Friday at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge to "secure a perimeter" around the compound and prevent "a Waco-style situation."

The arrival of the "3% of Idaho" was the latest development in the situation outside Burns, where an armed occupation of the refuge by an Ammon Bundy-led militant group entered its seventh day.

"If they weren't here," Bundy said, referring to the Idaho group, "I'd worry" about a Waco-style siege by federal officials.

The group's website says it stands for "freedom, liberty and the Constitution. We will combat all those who are corrupt."

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...sf/2016/01/oregon_standoff_idaho_militia.html

 

[bluesneakers]

BBM

Thank you! This is the exact point I tried to make earlier and you did it better. This is absolutely more than a protest and is a much bigger threat than most people understand IMO. It is one of many small battles in a larger ideological war being waged against the government by people willing to be martyrs. If the government does not handle this very carefully, with the big picture clearly in view, the long range forecast is bleak. Excess force is never helpful, but in this particular situation it is playing right along with the Militia/Patriot groups' game plan.
MOO

I'm all for handling it carefully and keeping the big picture clearly in view, but so far all I've seen is the mm having the run of the place, having special meetings, getting taken out to dinner, being politely asked to leave and offered an escort, getting positive reinforcement, etc. Nevermind all the media attention they've gotten and how they're allowed to openly recruit people to join their little party.

I think it's obvious if LE were to go all out it would end very, very badly, but they shouldn't be playing along and letting these men dictate how things are going to go.

JMO

 

[EllieBee]

These are the kind of people the Bundy family attracts.

This quote from Jerad has a familiar ring to it:

I feel sorry for any federal agents that want to come in here and try to push us around or anything like that. I really don't want violence toward them, but if they're going to come bring violence to us, well, if that's the language they want to speak, we'll learn it.

Sounds a lot like Ammond Bundy earlier this week:

We have no intentions of using force upon anyone, but if force is used against us, we would defend ourselves.

JMO

"Force" meaning LE doing their jobs and arresting these clowns for breaking the law. And if they resist arrest, like they have already announced they will, should we expect heavy casualties? There are many dead people, shot by LE for less than this.

Perhaps if this crisis can be resolved peacefully it will serve as a model for all police interaction going forward?

If an armed militia of terrorists can be dismantled and properly, LEGALLY dealt with, without a single drop of blood shed, then can't we assume that other, less threatening situations may be handled with such patience and prudence?

If LE and Feds are successful in bringing to justice these criminals without a "shoot first, ask later" plan, then I would fully hope to see this be the policy across the board.

 

[pappa rob]

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...sf/2016/01/oregon_standoff_idaho_militia.html

Who do you think their kidding, I don't care how many guys they've got. That place isn't defensible, the Alamo was a lot more secure than that gift shop. <modsnip>

 

[Lilibet]

Your response is thoughtful, and I do see your point. It does not make me any less sad or angry that people with little or no power are pushed down even further because they don't represent the level of threat these terrorists do.

But I do understand that we may be looking at the sort of cells usually only reported in Islamic terrorist groups. And since, relatively speaking, they are like "us" (clothing, language, live next door, etc) the threat is even scarier.

We are so distracted by the "threat" of Syrian refugees being terrorists, we left the henhouse open and the fox done got in.

BBM

Thank you for describing this situation so clearly. I certainly agree with your anger and sadness about people with little or no power being treated badly because they don't represent the threat the Militia/Patriots/Three Percenters/Sovereign Citizens do. But the problem we have here is that the discussion on this thread isn't about that disparity. I know I keep droning on and on about this, but if we keep talking about the unfairness, we are distracted from the serious threat that these people present. Thanks for understanding. I do get where you've been coming from.

 

[Everyday Grace]

<modsnip>I also think there has been a tendency to view these foxes as mostly good old boys who like play with their guns in the woods on weekends and be "keyboard commandos" the rest of the time.

That there does have a whiff of elephant to it.

It may even be true for many of them.

Fact is, though, that there are hard-core elements and those who have been "radicalized" by them. That's who we're dealing with.

I do share the frustrations that we haven't seemed to be able to contain this episode so far. I can only hope we can get through this one without any injury to or losses of innocents and law enforcement.

It is also my hope that when we get to the other side that the relevant US Attorney's office(s) take an aggressive approach rather than what did not happen after the Nevada episode in 2014.

It's my biggest hope that we remain vigilant to the existence of this form of domestic terrorism. Better still if we can actually increase our vigilance. We shouldn't have to experience the horror of another Oklahoma City to recognize these threats.

 

[Lilibet]

I'm all for handling it carefully and keeping the big picture clearly in view, but so far all I've seen is the mm having the run of the place, having special meetings, getting taken out to dinner, being politely asked to leave and offered an escort, getting positive reinforcement, etc. Nevermind all the media attention they've gotten and how they're allowed to openly recruit people to join their little party.

I think it's obvious if LE were to go all out it would end very, very badly, but they shouldn't be playing along and letting these men dictate how things are going to go.

JMO

BBM

The thing is, all we've seen as you describe it isn't necessarily all that is going on with LE behind the scene. I don't think I've ever been on a thread where there haven't been complaints about how LE is handling a situation and what they're not doing right. Usually (not always), when everything is made public, it's clear that LE was doing its job very well behind the scenes.

We have no idea what is really going on. I saw a comment on an article in which someone laid out a humorous scenario that LE is allowing free access and more militia to arrive so that more of them will be jailed eventually. I'm not sure that's the case at all, but I'm going to assume LE has a plan and isn't just playing along with these guys. For me, it just feels better to give LE the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. There is nothing the militia would like more than for people to assume that LE is either a persecutor or incompetent. JMO

 

[Lilibet]

I think I love you LOL! :loveyou: Brilliant post!

<modsnip>

I also think there has been a tendency to view these foxes as mostly good old boys who like play with their guns in the woods on weekends and be "keyboard commandos" the rest of the time.

<modsnip>Fact is, though, that there are hard-core elements and those who have been "radicalized" by them. That's who we're dealing with.

I do share the frustrations that we haven't seemed to be able to contain this episode so far. I can only hope we can get through this one without any injury to or losses of innocents and law enforcement.

It is also my hope that when we get to the other side that the relevant US Attorney's office(s) take an aggressive approach rather than what did not happen after the Nevada episode in 2014.

It's my biggest hope that we remain vigilant to the existence of this form of domestic terrorism. Better still if we can actually increase our vigilance. We shouldn't have to experience the horror of another Oklahoma City to recognize these threats.

 

[TupeloMz]

Imo Local LE, the Sheriff's Department can not do anything. These ppl are the responsibility of the Federal Government.
What a local LE department does when a kid is pointing pellet gun at people in a park is totally different.. Imo totally different. JMOO

 

[bluesneakers]

Who do you think their kidding, I don't care how many guys they've got. That place isn't defensible, the Alamo was a lot more secure than that gift shop. I think they've been hitting that Mormon tea a little too hard. They ought to slow down on that stuff it'll make them scitzo frenic..

Oh, it's defensible.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/02/24615F5800000578-2894776-image-m-78_1420227094599.jpg

 

[Everyday Grace]

I think I love you LOL! :loveyou: Brilliant post!

LOL...that's just because we're pretty much on the same page.

I attribute that to both of us having spent a good amount of time scouring the depths of the sewers looking at these kinds of folks.

(I've read many of your posts on Stephanie Warner. It's my intent to get further versed on her case when I can.)

BTW, I'm another one here who once resided in Humboldt County. The increasing darkness there drove me away.

 

[EllieBee]

BBM

The thing is, all we've seen as you describe it isn't necessarily all that is going on with LE behind the scene. I don't think I've ever been on a thread where there haven't been complaints about how LE is handling a situation and what they're not doing right. Usually (not always), when everything is made public, it's clear that LE was doing its job very well behind the scenes.

We have no idea what is really going on. I saw a comment on an article in which someone laid out a humorous scenario that LE is allowing free access and more militia to arrive so that more of them will be jailed eventually. I'm not sure that's the case at all, but I'm going to assume LE has a plan and isn't just playing along with these guys. For me, it just feels better to give LE the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. There is nothing the militia would like more than for people to assume that LE is either a persecutor or incompetent. JMO

Lilibet, I pray you are right. I would like nothing more than to wake up tomorrow (or one day soon) and read that this whole situation has been diffused, the perps locked up awaiting trial, and not a single life lost. And that this was all due to a brilliant plan laid out with this end in mind.

I will be the first to smack my head and say "that was GENIUS!!!"

I mean that sincerely, I really want to be amazed and impressed. It seems lately I am too often disappointed and disheartened by the way people behave.

Just because I am a cynic doesn't mean I am not capable of embracing my inner Pollyanna!

 

[pappa rob]

Oh, it's defensible.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/02/24615F5800000578-2894776-image-m-78_1420227094599.jpg

I guess if you hide out by the cement pond there's a good hidey hole...

 

[Lilibet]

LOL...that's just because we're pretty much on the same page.

I attribute that to both of us having spent a good amount of time scouring the depths of the sewers looking at these kinds of folks.

(I've read many of your posts on Stephanie Warner. It's my intent to get further versed on her case when I can.)

BTW, I'm another one here who once resided in Humboldt County. The increasing darkness there drove me away.

BBM

LOL Nothing like meeting new friends in the sewers. Sewer is the perfect description. Seriously, if the only encounter someone has had with these folks is the current situation in Burns or the Bundy Ranch, there is no way of truly understanding what they are really about.

Thank you for caring about Stephanie Warner. Sadly, she had been drinking her killer's koolaid before he killed her. I learned more about these people than I ever wanted to know while I was sleuthing Lennie Ames aka Lone Wolf. Too bad it's coming in handy now.

OT--Well, that settles it! I really do need to start a "Humboldt County Survivors" thread on WS!

 

[EllieBee]

I guess if you hide out by the cement pond there's a good hidey hole...

This is too much for me. I'm gonna go see what's playing on the picture radio.....

Ooohhhh!! It's Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars! Score!!