OR - Militia members occupy federal building in Oregon after protest #2

[i.b.nora]

I never did get to actually see the press conference so I watched the long raw unedited version at the FBI YouTube Channel. There are two versions there:

https://m.youtube.com/user/fbi

 

[LinasK]

No, I had to leave for a couple of hours. So I take it the FBI didn't say much- it wasn't an earthshattering press conference and the 4 are still there???

 

[bluesneakers]

No, I had to leave for a couple of hours. So I take it the FBI didn't say much- it wasn't an earthshattering press conference and the 4 are still there???

That's about it. They also showed the video of the arrest and shooting and carefully explained what happened.

 

[LinasK]

That's about it. They also showed the video of the arrest and shooting and carefully explained what happened.

Darn, I was hoping they would've announced their capture, or their plan for the capture. I just don't see the FBI letting them waltz out and not arresting them for their crimes.

 

[i.b.nora]

So, I have to apologize to the unnamed singing witness who said the FBI were coming out of the trees. At least one I saw was 'coming out of the trees'. And, he did seem to have his hands out, if not fully up, when he came out of the car, but it seemed it was the reaching inside his jacket that did him in. I don't think she mentioned that, and maybe didn't see it. I wouldn't want to be her, or any of them for that matter.

 

[angelainwi]

Still ongoing?

 

[Fairy1]

<modsnip>

[video=youtube;VnMP7OsqWq8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnMP7OsqWq8&app=desktop[/video]

 

[bluesneakers]

[video=youtube;VnMP7OsqWq8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnMP7OsqWq8&app=desktop[/video]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/blrg.gif

 

[Fairy1]

Great minds.....

 

[IzzyBlanche]

So, I have to apologize to the unnamed singing witness who said the FBI were coming out of the trees. At least one I saw was 'coming out of the trees'. And, he did seem to have his hands out, if not fully up, when he came out of the car, but it seemed it was the reaching inside his jacket that did him in. I don't think she mentioned that, and maybe didn't see it. I wouldn't want to be her, or any of them for that matter.

Directed at no one in particular

I initially interpreted her statement about the trees as they were coming down from the trees, as in, they had climbed the trees and were descending from there. Which I dismissed as absurd.

Looking at the video, however, I see nothing inaccurate about her saying they were coming out of the trees. Where else would they have been coming out of? In that terrain, one couldn't swing a cat without hitting a tree. [Disclaimer: no cats were harmed in the making of this metaphor.]

It also looked to me as if he was shot only after he appeared to start reaching for something at waist level.

Which anyone who has watched the news over the last few years will tell you is grounds for a lethal shot.

 

[Fairy1]

The dead guy had a dozen kids....

Yes.

I have some issues with this:

1) He should have put those kids first and stayed home.
2) How many more radicals has he raised up?
3) How the HE!! did he ever qualify to be a foster parent?
4) Did he actually use these children as ranch hands?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Great minds.....

Thanks to both of your great minds.

So help me out once again: does preggie girl light a cigarette in the background toward the end, or is that just crazy talk I also read somewhere that I can't find the link for? It kinda looks like it to me.

Directed at video maker/participants/and whatnot

Dance. You might have used that word but I don't think it means what you think it means.

 

[renah]

I just watched the video. Has everyone else seen it?

I did.

Ffs

It was hard to watch a mentally ill man die because of his crazy thinking.

No blame on LEOS. I just wish Life could be simple black and white.

No gray.

 

[Lilibet]

I just watched the video. Has everyone else seen it?

I watched the short version. I'm sorry he felt the need to be a martyr. It was hard to watch, but he certainly made his intentions clear. I hope LE were wearing body cams. I knew the militia supporters would declare this to be cold-blooded murder, as they are on the Bundy Ranch FB page. I'm sure even close up video wouldn't convince them otherwise.

https://www.facebook.com/bundyranch/?fref=photo

 

[KaaBoom]

I just watched the video. Has everyone else seen it?

I watched the entire &#8220;unedited&#8221; video. I have to say I&#8217;m not impressed with the FBI version of the event. It looks to me like the typical shoot first, ask questions later mentality that kills over a thousand people a year, at the hands of LEOs in the US.

The first thing that caught my eye in the supposedly unedited video, was the black bars all over the screen covering up the data. The second thing, just seconds into the video, the video cuts back and forth between shots.:facepalm: So we have another edited-unedited video from law enforcement. Surprise, surprise, just like the Sandra Bland video. Maybe the FBI will come out with another better edit, that will look less edited. I guess it would just kill American LE to release a raw video, without tampering with it first.

Now to the event. LaVoy Finicum was definitely not down on his knees surrendering. He was also not threatening any LEOs. He was alternating between his hands out to his side, and down to his sides. Apparently the FBI is not even claiming that he had a gun in his hand. So there was no imminent threat to any LEO. He was an armed man (not illegal in the US) and he was not cooperating with LEOs, but that is not a justification for shooting him down like that.

Unfortunately the trigger happy cop just made the guy a martyr. The rightwing conspiracy theorists are going to have a field day with this video.

<modsnip>

This is a very unimpressive video for the FBI and OSP.

 

[ohreally]

So, I have to apologize to the unnamed singing witness who said the FBI were coming out of the trees. At least one I saw was 'coming out of the trees'. And, he did seem to have his hands out, if not fully up, when he came out of the car, but it seemed it was the reaching inside his jacket that did him in. I don't think she mentioned that, and maybe didn't see it. I wouldn't want to be her, or any of them for that matter.

I have to admit I do think the girl probably did say it just how she saw it. I would think that she was pretty terrified at the time, and may not of had her eyes on him the whole time. I did think she was liing, but now I think she just didn't see the critical moment.

 

[ohreally]

I don't see any splicing in the video or any attempts of the person taking the video trying to hide anything in the filming.
What I see is the driver almost plowing into a law enforcement officer when he makes the choice to leave the road and get stuck in the snow. LaVoy immediately exits the vehicle. He does put his hands up, and walks toward law enforcement. Then he reaches once for something at his waist (very short) seems to have a hard time standing up in the snow, gets his balance again. He then seems to reach again try to get to something on his waist, this time for a longer time. Then he is shot.
I do not celebrate that he was killed, but IMO law enforcement did what they had to do. They knew he carried his weapon strapped at his waist. They knew he said that he would 'defend' himself, and would rather die than live in a cell. They knew he had almost ran over a law enforcement officer trying to get away.
I don't care if he was able to get his gun out or not. He was trying to, and if he had been successful would of used it IMO.
Yes, it would of been nice if they could of taken him alive like the others. I would of liked for him to spend years in a jail cell, but the choice was his. He ended it just like he wanted it to end. IMO

 

[Fred Hall]

I watched the entire &#8220;unedited&#8221; video. I have to say I&#8217;m not impressed with the FBI version of the event. It looks to me like the typical shoot first, ask questions later mentality that kills over a thousand people a year, at the hands of LEOs in the US.

The first thing that caught my eye in the supposedly unedited video, was the black bars all over the screen covering up the data. The second thing, just seconds into the video, the video cuts back and forth between shots.:facepalm: So we have another edited-unedited video from law enforcement. Surprise, surprise, just like the Sandra Bland video. Maybe the FBI will come out with another better edit, that will look less edited. I guess it would just kill American LE to release a raw video, without tampering with it first.

Now to the event. LaVoy Finicum was definitely not down on his knees surrendering. He was also not threatening any LEOs. He was alternating between his hands out to his side, and down to his sides. Apparently the FBI is not even claiming that he had a gun in his hand. So there was no imminent threat to any LEO. He was an armed man (not illegal in the US) and he was not cooperating with LEOs, but that is not a justification for shooting him down like that.

Unfortunately the trigger happy cop just made the guy a martyr. The rightwing conspiracy theorists are going to have a field day with this video.

<modsnip>

This is a very unimpressive video for the FBI and OSP.

Color me unimpressed as well. I was expecting dash/body-cam footage, not something filmed from low-earth orbit. Watching the video, I am not at all certain what I am seeing. Finicum didn't kneel, but he certainly didn't "charge". He lowers his hands only to raise them back up, then he lowers them for a final time and collapses. He may have been going for his gun, or he might have lowered his hands as a simple response to being shot. Which it was can only be determined by closeup footage with audio. Speaking of which, where is it? Were none of the agents wearing body-cams? I'm also not clear on whether any shots were fired at the car. At the press conference Agent Greg Bretzing is quite explicit ---

Approximately 30 seconds after the shooting, law enforcement officers at the scene deployed flash bangs to disorient any other armed occupants. Shortly after that, they deployed less-lethal sponge projectiles with OC capsules. Those OC capsules would be similar to pepper spray.

This statement seems to preclude any shots being fired at the car in the snowbank. However, early stories report that Ryan Bundy "suffered a mild gunshot wound" ---

Ryan Bundy, 43, of Bunkerville, Nev., suffered a minor gunshot wound in the confrontation about 4:30 p.m. along U.S. 395. He was treated and released from a local hospital and was in FBI custody, authorities said.

 

[KaaBoom]

I don't see any splicing in the video or any attempts of the person taking the video trying to hide anything in the filming.

00:27 and 00:32 in this video. If you can&#8217;t see the edits in the supposedly unedited video, then you are blind.

[video=youtube;aAGxDWKrjPQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAGxDWKrjPQ[/video]

 

[kaen]

Now to the event. LaVoy Finicum was definitely not down on his knees surrendering. He was also not threatening any LEOs. He was alternating between his hands out to his side, and down to his sides. Apparently the FBI is not even claiming that he had a gun in his hand. So there was no imminent threat to any LEO. He was an armed man (not illegal in the US) and he was not cooperating with LEOs, but that is not a justification for shooting him down like that.

Unfortunately the trigger happy cop just made the guy a martyr. The rightwing conspiracy theorists are going to have a field day with this video.

<modsnip>.

Having watched lots of videos of police shooting non-compliant (with and without weapons), I see this as similar to many urban shootings where compliance of the suspect is called into question. Those movements of the hands are often seen as justifiable in grand jury and trials. People (here and in the general world) are often vocal about the idea the officer does not know what the suspect has in their possession. Shootings happen in many cases that have this kind of look---suspect is engaged by police, suspect gets out of vehicle, cops have guns drawn, suspect moves toward police and refuse to stand still with hands up, suspect moves hands down, and officer has split second to make a decision. In that sense it is the officer or the suspect who is at great risk. If the police pull you over, your job is to be compliant--no?

I don't see the police as trigger happy. But that said, we have had many young people, old people, and all shades who have met this same fate. If we don't want martyrs in any community, what should happen in the stop and arrest situations?

<modsnip>These are highly charged situations. What do we want the LEOs to do? Wait until they are the victim?

I see it as business as usual rather than unimpressive.