OR - Militia members occupy federal building in Oregon after protest #2

[seattlechiquita]

IMO Finicum clearly posed a threat when he lowered his arms to his waist, twice. What isn't on the tapes were the verbal commands by LE...was he ordered to keep his hands in the air and stop moving? I'd bet he was...

ITA. You have to be either really stupid or really full of yourself to be surrounded by LE while you know you are committing an offense and go for your waist. This was not a kid who got spooked, or someone reaching for his Skittles, or his OR state driver's license. He was either reaching for a weapon or going for suicide by cop. In either case, it's on him. Good riddance.

 

[kaen]

For myself personally, it's important to think critically and not side with anyone. I don't think it's possible to tell from that video whether it was a justified shooting. I suppose there was the likelihood that he was armed and willing to fight. But hey, a lot of people are armed in America. No wonder the police react so quickly when someone's "non-compliant".

I agree on so many levels. But, your last sentence is key-- it is no wonder. Armed or not, it seems to be our reality. Personally, I don't like the idea of shoot first and ask later, not that many shootings are this situation. And, these are the times.

Edit: As a mother to children of color, I have always told my sons that they must comply and ask questions in safety at a later point.

 

[bluesneakers]

BBM - isn't this pretty much what he said from the beginning? By taking off and then trying to run through the roadblock, his intentions seemed pretty clear, IMO.

That said, I'd like to hear the audio, as well.

He waxed poetic on his life living on the range - the sun on his face and the wind in his hair - said straight up he was willing to die and how he would never live in a concrete box. He also said he wouldn't shoot first but he would defend himself. He warned them not to point guns at him.

To me he's like so many other terrorists who think dying for their cause is some great honour.

"There are things more important than your life and freedom is one of them," he said. "I'm prepared to defend freedom."

 

[i.b.nora]

He must have been going pretty fast to get as far into the snowbank as he got.

 

[Dr. Know?]

This reporter is with OPB & reading his tweets this morning there is audio they are listening inside the compound somehow.

John Sepulvado ‏@JohnLGC 16m16 minutes ago
Wow. Sandy Anderson says Sean told her to leave, she refused. everyone was ready to go. she wouldn't leave him. Jeff & David then stayed.

John Sepulvado ‏@JohnLGC 5m5 minutes ago
John Sepulvado Retweeted Shelley Powers
they say the fbi told them "y'all stay there as long as you want. we'll wait it out."

John Sepulvado ‏@JohnLGC 12m12 minutes ago
John Sepulvado Retweeted Eric
the men stayed with the couple. the deal -- according to sandy -- was done -- and she stopped, so they stopped.

John Sepulvado ‏@JohnLGC 37m37 minutes ago
John Sepulvado Retweeted Jennifer Hayden
not replying. all i can say is we're hearing conversations on the compound.

John Sepulvado ‏@JohnLGC 46m46 minutes ago
David Fry only recently woke up. Ppl have been trying to reach him all morning.

https://twitter.com/JohnLGC/with_replies

 

[Fairy1]

I agree on so many levels. But, your last sentence is key-- it is no wonder. Armed or not, it seems to be our reality. Personally, I don't like the idea of shoot first and ask later, not that many shootings are this situation. And, these are the times.

But don't you agree there is a big difference between carrying a concealed weapon and wearing your weapons as accessories? There are certain behaviors that will inherently increase the possibility of something bad happening. Like taking over a federal building and threatening LE and community members while being armed to the teeth. And this while very publicly stating you are willing to die for your cause and will never spend a moment in a concrete box.

 

[bluesneakers]

Unfortunately, he could be saying, "Have a nice day." and go for his gun to kill the officer. It is the actions/body movement that counts not the words. If he goes for his waist band (even once) and they think he might be going for his gun, all bets are off. It is often discussed here that it is a split second decision and that suspects should know they have to yield. I guess I am a little surprised that a number of people question this shooting as non-necessary. In other cases where there was not a belief that a suspect even had a gun but was non-compliant, many folks stood on the side of LEO must protect themselves and the suspect should know to put their hands up and follow all commands.

I have no doubt that this man was having some medical issues. That said, he created a situation where the officer felt threatened and fired. I believe it may have been what he wanted. I am sad for his family.

I am also sad for the officer who is doing his job and is now having his professionalism questioned.

What was being said is only part of the picture. I agree. When I said "Could make all the difference" I didn't mean it would - but if he said "You'll never take me alive" and reached for his gun I think it obviously justifies what happened. If the officer said "Put your weapon on the ground" it might change things a bit, at least for me. I doubt it happened like that, but I'm trying to stay openminded.

Speaking only for myself - I'm not questioning his professionalism but I am questioning his actions. I'm also questioning Finicum's, the video, and statements from witnesses. Just a guess but the officer probably expects the shooting to be investigated.

 

[i.b.nora]

This is from a bit ago today and its coming up on Noon now. About 20 minutes away.

John Sepulvado
John Sepulvado – Verified account ‏@JohnLGC

.@OPB has obtained audio from inside the compound currently -- we'll give an update at noon.
9:47 AM - 29 Jan 2016

 

[Elley Mae]

This is from a bit ago today and its coming up on Noon now. About 20 minutes away.

John Sepulvado
John Sepulvado – Verified account ‏@JohnLGC

.@OPB has obtained audio from inside the compound currently -- we'll give an update at noon.
9:47 AM - 29 Jan 2016

I'm thinking though one of their cellphones, even when turned off they can be activated remotely and used as a listening device.

 

[i.b.nora]

OPB.org

radio online listen live

Starting now, i think. Think Out Loud

 

[Dr. Know?]

John Sepulvado ‏@JohnLGC 3m3 minutes ago
David Fry is up again with a video, about a minute ago [video=youtube;evYqaZiPYv8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evYqaZiPYv8[/video] …

 

[Betty P]

John Sepulvado ‏@JohnLGC 3m3 minutes ago
David Fry is up again with a video, about a minute ago [video=youtube;evYqaZiPYv8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evYqaZiPYv8[/video] …

Are all of the people remaining at the camp/national park armed? In his video, the Fry guy is saying the Feds should just capture the dangerous protestors and let the rest of them go. How is the FBI supposed to know they're not dangerous? They don't.

 

[renah]

I'd like to believe Finicum hauled a$$ so quickly out of and away from the truck in order to focus LE on himself to protect the people who were still left inside. I'd like to believe in knowing of at least one good act this man accomplished in his life.

We may never hear a reliable account of what was really said between him and the passengers before he jumped out. But just for a little glimmer of salvage amidst all this mind blowing SENSELESS insanity, I'm going with this theory. I know he's not a hero-- anyone with half a brain/one ear/one eye or lipreading skill knows that-- but at least I can say he did ONE unselfish act during his time on earth. I need that.

 

[ohreally]

This reporter is with OPB & reading his tweets this morning there is audio they are listening inside the compound somehow.

John Sepulvado ‏@JohnLGC 16m16 minutes ago
Wow. Sandy Anderson says Sean told her to leave, she refused. everyone was ready to go. she wouldn't leave him. Jeff & David then stayed.

John Sepulvado ‏@JohnLGC 5m5 minutes ago
John Sepulvado Retweeted Shelley Powers
they say the fbi told them "y'all stay there as long as you want. we'll wait it out."

John Sepulvado ‏@JohnLGC 12m12 minutes ago
John Sepulvado Retweeted Eric
the men stayed with the couple. the deal -- according to sandy -- was done -- and she stopped, so they stopped.

John Sepulvado ‏@JohnLGC 37m37 minutes ago
John Sepulvado Retweeted Jennifer Hayden
not replying. all i can say is we're hearing conversations on the compound.

John Sepulvado ‏@JohnLGC 46m46 minutes ago
David Fry only recently woke up. Ppl have been trying to reach him all morning.

https://twitter.com/JohnLGC/with_replies

What a guy! I can understand (not that I agree with it) why she will not leave her husband. Especially if she believes he will die rather than to go to jail. What I don't understand is why he won't give up and pay the consequences rather than stay knowing his wife may be arrested or die because of him not turning himself in.

 

[Sulamith]

They have made a mess with all their trash, "campfire". I hope the Native American artifacts and the buildings aren't trashed and damaged. It especially bothers me that they destroyed the wooden fence and cut the barbed wire fence. I learned either from growing up in west Texas or watching old westerns that cutting fences other people's fences are a big NO.

I have never seen such stupidity on display before. If they were not breaking the law I might feel sorry for them.

 

[i.b.nora]

Think Out Loud program was a waste of time.

But...

Amanda Peacher got a replacement her broken computer and is tweeting again.

Amanda Peacher
Amanda Peacher – Verified account ‏@amandapeacher

@johnsemlak It's cold and raining, John. They might be camping or inside. FBI has secured any buildings as far as we're aware.
12:35 PM - 29 Jan

 

[ohreally]

00:27 and 00:32 in this video. If you can’t see the edits in the supposedly unedited video, then you are blind.

[video=youtube;aAGxDWKrjPQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAGxDWKrjPQ[/video]

I don't see those as edits. I think that is adjustments of the camera from distance to close up back to distance. Why would they even edit this part of the video? There is nothing going on at that point to edit. IMO

 

[i.b.nora]

They have made a mess with all their trash, "campfire". I hope the Native American artifacts and the buildings aren't trashed and damaged. It especially bothers me that they destroyed the wooden fence and cut the barbed wire fence. I learned either from growing up in west Texas or watching old westerns that cutting fences other people's fences are a big NO.

I have never seen such stupidity on display before. If they were not breaking the law I might feel sorry for them.

This latest video just confirmed what I had been thinking and not really saying.

 

[i.b.nora]

I'd like to believe Finicum hauled a$$ so quickly out of and away from the truck in order to focus LE on himself to protect the people who were still left inside. I'd like to believe in knowing of at least one good act this man accomplished in his life.

We may never hear a reliable account of what was really said between him and the passengers before he jumped out. But just for a little glimmer of salvage amidst all this mind blowing SENSELESS insanity, I'm going with this theory. I know he's not a hero-- anyone with half a brain/one ear/one eye or lipreading skill knows that-- but at least I can say he did ONE unselfish act during his time on earth. I need that.

I thought of that as well, and I think there is a very good likelihood that that is what he was thinking.

 

[LinasK]

For myself personally, it's important to think critically and not side with anyone. I don't think it's possible to tell from that video whether it was a justified shooting. I suppose there was the likelihood that he was armed and willing to fight. But hey, a lot of people are armed in America. No wonder the police react so quickly when someone's "non-compliant".

I didn't watch the video, but just from what I've read it's clear this guy was reaching for his gun to take down a few cops with him as he committed suicide-by-cop. Most intelligent people know when a cop orders you to put your hands up, you cooperate, and you don't run or you will be shot. The cops have to protect their own lives first, unless they are going to use rubber bullets or tasers. ( And FYI, I am extremely pro-gun control, I made my husband give up his gun).