OR - Militia members occupy federal building in Oregon after protest #2

[KaaBoom]

IMO Finicum clearly posed a threat when he lowered his arms to his waist, twice. What isn't on the tapes were the verbal commands by LE...was he ordered to keep his hands in the air and stop moving? I'd bet he was...

It sounds like you have already made up your mind, without seeing the evidence.

 

[bluesneakers]

So, I ask myself why an 18 year old young woman who it has been said was riding in Finicum's vehicle in order to join the rest of her family to sing at the meeting in John Day, why would she choose not to leave the vehicle along with Ryan Payne? What was being said? What was LE saying? What was Finicum saying? What was being said in those 3 or 4 minutes?

I can only guess at what she was thinking but I can come up with a few reasons she might not exit the vehicle, mainly because I think she was terrified. She'd just been in a chase with law enforcement, who knows what Finicum was saying along the way, and then he was killed. Then someone else was shot. Maybe she thought she was next, or maybe she was too frightened to think clearly.

I would like to know what everyone was saying too.

 

[Tulessa]

Good question. Maybe the body cams show something the FBI doesn’t want people to see?

Something is hinky.

 

[bluesneakers]

Good question. Maybe the body cams show something the FBI doesn’t want people to see?

They probably weren't wearing any.

The Justice Department’s other law-enforcement arms, including the FBI, said they don’t expect body cameras to be used on any of their task forces because their work is primarily investigative, and when they do work with local police, they tend to be detectives who are unlikely to wear body cameras.

As we've covered before, the DOJ supports the idea of body cameras for local law enforcement agencies. It has set aside over $20 million a year in funding to help these agencies out. But it has no love for body cameras within its own agencies. There are no body cam requirements in place for FBI, DEA, ATF or the US Marshals Service.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-urg...ce-but-nixes-them-on-federal-teams-1447276258
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...wed-to-partner-up-with-federal-agencies.shtml

 

[octobermoon]

I am way behind, real life keeps hogging my time. Sorry if already posted....

John Sepulvado ‏@JohnLGC 10m
John Sepulvado Retweeted Mr. WalrusQ
just watched it -- shows the compound and how quick everyone split [video=youtube;glsQEwWZLqg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glsQEwWZLqg[/video] … John Sepulvado added,

Mr. WalrusQ @MrWalrusQ
@JohnLGC new video on Fry's channel

https://twitter.com/JohnLGC/with_replies

 

[bluesneakers]

I am way behind, real life keeps hogging my time. Sorry if already posted....

John Sepulvado ‏@JohnLGC 10m
John Sepulvado Retweeted Mr. WalrusQ
just watched it -- shows the compound and how quick everyone split [video=youtube;glsQEwWZLqg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glsQEwWZLqg[/video] … John Sepulvado added,

Mr. WalrusQ @MrWalrusQ
@JohnLGC new video on Fry's channel

https://twitter.com/JohnLGC/with_replies

They should make them all go back and clean up their own mess.

 

[Donjeta]

And like a monk, Finicum waxed poetic when asked earlier this month whether he was prepared to die rather than go to jail for occupying a federal wildlife refuge in rural Oregon.

“Absolutely,” he told NBC’s Tony Dokoupil on Jan. 5. “I have been raised in the country all my life. I love dearly to feel the wind on my face, to see the sun rise, to see the moon in the night. I have no intention of spending any of my days in a concrete box.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...hed-rather-die-than-go-to-jail-did-just-that/

So now he spends the rest of his days in a wooden box.

The quote seems so prescient I think he probably was intending to die as a martyr for the cause. I just don't see the way he acted as protecting anyone.

 

[KaaBoom]

The "edits" look more like a sudden change of camera focus to me. I'm not blind and I stared at the screen without blinking. I don't see what you and kaboom are seeing.

That's not the way video cameras work. Changing the focus of a camera takes at least several seconds. Editing cuts are instant. But that five second clip is more then just a different focus. It’s at a different zoom level. If the camera was focusing it would have just gotten blurry for a few seconds, then cleared up again. The video would not have those cuts there, if it was not edited

ETA: Is anyone claiming that these two supposed "edits" mean that the shooting sequence is edited too? If so, I don't see that either. If not, what's the implication?Finicum's death is a tragedy, but he was given plenty of time while he was stopped initially, before speeding off, to cooperate. IMO LE handled this situation with great restraint. But they are not required to let someone shoot them just to prove that they did everything perfectly. JMO

No, the Pete Santilli arrest was handled with great restraint. These cops showed no restraint at all. If shooting the suspects within seconds of getting out of the vehicle is what you consider great restraint, then what do you consider not great restraint? Blowing them up with a nuclear bomb maybe?

 

[octobermoon]

They should make them all go back and clean up their own mess.

On their hands and knees with a toothbrush. grrrr.

 

[i.b.nora]

I can only guess at what she was thinking but I can come up with a few reasons she might not exit the vehicle, mainly because I think she was terrified. She'd just been in a chase with law enforcement, who knows what Finicum was saying along the way, and then he was killed. Then someone else was shot. Maybe she thought she was next, or maybe she was too frightened to think clearly.

I would like to know what everyone was saying too.

Well, I am talking about when Finicum's vehicle was first stopped, when Ryan Payne left the vehicle and was arrested. It was mostly hidden by the trees. But you can see him in the lower right corner. That left Finicum, Ryan Bundy, Shawna Cox, and the Sharp Family Singer in the vehicle. There had been no car chase at that point. So, she probably was scared, I would have been, but did she not have a clue as to what was going on? Maybe, since her family participated in the Cliven Bundy standoff she thought she doing God's work and was being loyal to her family and their values by staying in the car? She did not know, or barely knew, the other woman. What was being said in that car? She is going to have to get herself an attorney, if she hasn't already.

 

[KaaBoom]

But don't you agree there is a big difference between carrying a concealed weapon and wearing your weapons as accessories?

I don’t see much difference. Personally I don’t think either should be legal. But as long as it is legal, I don’t think cops should be able to shoot somebody for doing it.

 

[bluesneakers]

Well, I am talking about when Finicum's vehicle was first stopped, when Ryan Payne left the vehicle and was arrested. It was mostly hidden by the trees. But you can see him in the lower right corner. That left Finicum, Ryan Bundy, Shawna Cox, and the Sharp Family Singer in the vehicle. There had been no car chase at that point. So, she probably was scared, I would have been, but did she not have a clue as to what was going on? Maybe, since her family participated in the Cliven Bundy standoff she thought she doing God's work and was being loyal to her family and their values by staying in the car? She did not know, or barely knew, the other woman. What was being said in that car? She is going to have to get herself an attorney, if she hasn't already.

Oh, I thought you meant at the end. I've gotten my Ryans mixed up.

Who knows what she was thinking. I've seen teenagers do a lot of stupid things. I would like to know what Finicum was saying too. Maybe you're right and we should read his book. It's probably all in there.

She was questioned and released so I don't think she's going to be charged with anything. Though I agree - if I knew her I would advise her to get an attorney. I'm sure there are a few lined up.

 

[i.b.nora]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...hed-rather-die-than-go-to-jail-did-just-that/

So now he spends the rest of his days in a wooden box.

The quote seems so prescient I think he probably was intending to die as a martyr for the cause. I just don't see the way he acted as protecting anyone.

I don't think one possibility precludes the other.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Patriot Group Issues 'Call To Action' To Air 'Grievances' At Oregon Refuge

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/pacific-patriots-network-oregon-call-to-action

 

[Fairy1]

Patriot Group Issues 'Call To Action' To Air 'Grievances' At Oregon Refuge

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/pacific-patriots-network-oregon-call-to-action

Oh for crying out loud! I'll be standing with other Americans this weekend - at the grocery store. And the only thing I'll be armed with is my list and $$$!

There is and will never be any reasoning with these folks.

 

[i.b.nora]

That Barracks Aftermath video really really bothers me (thats putting it mildly). The people were sooo intrusive.

 

[Donjeta]

I don't think one possibility precludes the other.

Yeah, in theory it doesn't. But he would have acted differently if he was intending to protect anyone. His car had stopped and then he took off and started a chase again. That sort of thing could have gotten everybody in the car killed and taken a few LE with them.

He did not have protection on his mind.

MOO.

 

[Fairy1]

I don’t see much difference. Personally I don’t think either should be legal. But as long as it is legal, I don’t think cops should be able to shoot somebody for doing it.

It's not legal to reach for your weapon when LE is instructing you to put your hands up.

 

[Donjeta]

That Barracks Aftermath video really really bothers me (thats putting it mildly). The people were sooo intrusive.

Isn't it nice to know that the Constitution is being protected by slobs?

 

[Donjeta]

Re: the hundred shots:

Over what one imagines were a tense few minutes, police sheltered behind their trucks, apparently concerned that other riders might shoot. They fired flash-bangs to disorient the passengers and also OC capsules, which Bretzing described as similar to pepper spray.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2016/01/fbi-lavoy-finicum-shooting-video-oregon/433899/

I imagine that a scared person in a car might easily think they're being shot at.