OR - Militia members occupy federal building in Oregon after protest #2

[KaaBoom]

John Sepulvado ‏@JohnLGC 3m3 minutes ago
David Fry is up again with a video, about a minute ago [video=youtube;evYqaZiPYv8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evYqaZiPYv8[/video] …

LOL. I think the guy answered his own question. They are not going to get a pardon, because they don’t have the money to pay for it, like the guy in the case he mentioned, and they don’t have any presidential friends.

Most of what he said is probably true, but I doubt the Justice Department really wants to charge every person involved in the occupation. That would be pointless. They will be happy to just prosecute the ringleaders.

 

[Donjeta]

Patriot Group Issues 'Call To Action' To Air 'Grievances' At Oregon Refuge

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/pacific-patriots-network-oregon-call-to-action

Oh nice...

"Come stand together with other Americans, and express our Constitutional right to PEACEFULLY assemble and air our grievances," the call to action said. It called for the arrest of the law enforcement officers involved in the shooting that killed occupier LaVoy Finicum on Tuesday night, as well as for the departure of the federal authorities who have staked out the Malheur National Wildlife Center and for the resignations of some of the local officials in Harney County, Oregon.

I always thought that peaceful demonstrations involved marching, written signs and chanted slogans, not camping out on someone else's property, armed to the teeth, saying you'd rather die than get arrested.

 

[KaaBoom]

Are all of the people remaining at the camp/national park armed? In his video, the Fry guy is saying the Feds should just capture the dangerous protestors and let the rest of them go. How is the FBI supposed to know they're not dangerous? They don't.

I believe they are all armed. Reports are that many of the occupiers who left, left their weapons. So there are probably a lot more guns there then people.

 

[bluesneakers]

Are all of the people remaining at the camp/national park armed? In his video, the Fry guy is saying the Feds should just capture the dangerous protestors and let the rest of them go. How is the FBI supposed to know they're not dangerous? They don't.

In the videos I've seen all four of them still have guns on them. The way they've been talking they want to all appear as if they're dangerous so yeah, how is the FBI supposed to know if and when they've changed their minds? I think the man saying "If they get in your way, kill 'em!" should be arrested just for that. Isn't it a terroristic threat? He has a weapon on him and he says it for the whole world (or at least 900 youtube viewers) to see.

 

[KaaBoom]

I really couldn't hear the speakers at the PC last night but I thought the fellow that spoke before showing the video explained in advance that there had been some editing and was very specific as to what was edited and why. IIRC, he said the entire video was 25 minutes long and that it would be posted in its entirety on the FBI website.

Did anyone hear what I think I heard or am I losing it?

The 25 minute long video is what I’m talking about. It is supposed to be a complete unedited video, but there are very clear editing cuts in it. Why?

There are black boxes all over the screen covering up all of the data, except for the time. That would be information like GPS coordinates, direction of travel, speed, etc. Why did they edit that all out, and then call the video “complete unedited”?

 

[bluesneakers]

The 25 minute long video is what I’m talking about. It is supposed to be a complete unedited video, but there are very clear editing cuts in it. Why?

There are black boxes all over the screen covering up all of the data, except for the time. That would be information like GPS coordinates, direction of travel, speed, etc. Why did they edit that all out, and then call the video “complete unedited”?

At the press conference he mentioned the information being blacked out because it's sensitive or evidence or something. I can't remember the exact word but it's like when any document has some information redacted.

I saw the edits you're talking about. It's clearly not the camera being adjusted or changing point-of-view. It's a sudden change from one angle and distance to another, then immediately back to the original view and distance. I'm not sure what it could be though because it's so early in the chase incident. What could have happened there?

 

[i.b.nora]

I think the FBI has been doing a fine job so far. I think the issue is they have a Federal warrant for the arrest of Sean Anderson. The other babies don't think that is fair so they don't want to leave him alone to be arrested. And, David Fry has expressed absolute terror about he himself going to jail. I haven't been able to learn much about Sean or his wife Sandy. They are from Riggins, Idaho. I don't want to check right now but I think he is wearing III%er patches. bfd.

 

[i.b.nora]

I think the videographer's finger slipped off the button and caused the interruption.

And, I believe the redacting or blacking out of the data will make it difficult for the conspiracy people to edit the video to suit whatever their narrative is. JMOs.

 

[renah]

I don't think one possibility precludes the other.

Thank you. You've said in one sentence what I couldn't say in 3 paragraphs.

Most of life ISN'T black or white, and people aren't either.

Unless we're talking monsters without conscience, it bothers me when deluded people are vilified as totally evil and deserving of hatred, bile, and death. We are ALL flawed.

Finicum helped cause a lot of damage, no question. And he probably did choose his death. But are those the actions of a healthy rational person? Can we really celebrate his death as something he deserved?

 

[KaaBoom]

They probably weren't wearing any.


http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-urg...ce-but-nixes-them-on-federal-teams-1447276258
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...wed-to-partner-up-with-federal-agencies.shtml

You may be right, but that would be very unfortunate with a high profile case like this. I wouldn't expect every FBI agent to wear a body cam (though it might be a good idea). But I would expect them all to wear them when dealing in a situation like this.

Anyway, it was the OSP that shot him, not the FBI. I believe that some OSP officers use body cams.

 

[i.b.nora]

Strategy for Oregon standoff arrests: 'The best way is to divide and conquer'
By Maxine Bernstein | The Oregonian/OregonLive
on January 29, 2016 at 2:47 PM, updated January 29, 2016 at 5:38 PM

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/strategy_for_oregon_standoff_a.html

Slow motion, greatly enlarged video.

snip

“When they became aware that the key figures were planning to head north to the next county along a remote, two-lane stretch of highway, they no doubt considered it a prime opportunity to arrest them, said former FBI agents and police experts who have been following the case.

"The best way is to divide and conquer,'' said Clint Van Zandt, a former FBI chief hostage negotiator. "If we know through intelligence that the leadership of the group is leaving, what we need to do is intercept and arrest them.''”

More, including the video

 

[Fairy1]

The 25 minute long video is what I’m talking about. It is supposed to be a complete unedited video, but there are very clear editing cuts in it. Why?

There are black boxes all over the screen covering up all of the data, except for the time. That would be information like GPS coordinates, direction of travel, speed, etc. Why did they edit that all out, and then call the video “complete unedited”?

What didn't you see that you think would be important? I'm just curious. We see them sitting in the middle of the road for several minutes then taking off seemingly intending to go through the roadblock (cause what else could they have had in mind?), LaVoy exiting the vehicle and appearing to reach for his weapon. IMO, those were all the important parts. For me, the audio would be most important.

I didn't see anywhere near 100 shots fired. I guess everyone will see what they want to see.

 

[Dr. Know?]

I thought I read it was a drone that videoed the shooting? Was it a 4k camera?

 

[Hope4More]

In the videos I've seen all four of them still have guns on them. The way they've been talking they want to all appear as if they're dangerous so yeah, how is the FBI supposed to know if and when they've changed their minds? I think the man saying "If they get in your way, kill 'em!" should be arrested just for that. Isn't it a terroristic threat? He has a weapon on him and he says it for the whole world (or at least 900 youtube viewers) to see.

And, given that he's made his violent intentions perfectly clear, if I hear next that he's run a roadblock and reached into his coat rather than keeping his hands in the air, I'm gonna give LE the benefit of the doubt, and I won't need to parse video to do so.

 

[KaaBoom]

It's not legal to reach for your weapon when LE is instructing you to put your hands up.

Do you have any proof that that happened?

 

[Fairy1]

Do you have any proof that that happened?

Yeah, the video.

 

[Fred Hall]

It seems to me that by the time he didn't make it past the roadblock, although he sure tried, all his options to 'get away' were exhausted. By jumping out of the vehicle and moving quickly away from it, he could (maybe) focus the LE attention on himself in case they were inclined to just shoot at the car and thus its occupants.

It would help to know what they talked about in that 3 to 4 minute period of time after Ryan Paine gave himself up.

The girl claims that someone took a shot at Lavoy, and that that's why he hit the gas. Implausible, but there it is.

 

[KaaBoom]

At the press conference he mentioned the information being blacked out because it's sensitive or evidence or something. I can't remember the exact word but it's like when any document has some information redacted.

How can information like the GPS coordinates be sensitive information? They have already reported were the incident took place. I call BS on that. It’s just a typical LE cover up.

Anyway my main problem is them keeping the video for a day, editing it, and then calling it complete unedited video, when it’s not. How is anyone supposed to know what else they might have edited out of the video, while they were at it?

 

[Fred Hall]

The 25 minute long video is what I’m talking about. It is supposed to be a complete unedited video, but there are very clear editing cuts in it. Why?

There are black boxes all over the screen covering up all of the data, except for the time. That would be information like GPS coordinates, direction of travel, speed, etc. Why did they edit that all out, and then call the video “complete unedited”?

He said it was unedited except to remove "sensitive law law enforcement information". I wonder why aircraft stats like altitude, heading, speed would be considered "sensitive"?

 

[Fred Hall]

You may be right, but that would be very unfortunate with a high profile case like this. I wouldn't expect every FBI agent to wear a body cam (though it might be a good idea). But I would expect them all to wear them when dealing in a situation like this.

Anyway, it was the OSP that shot him, not the FBI. I believe that some OSP officers use body cams.

They had better have been wearing body cams. The aerial footage is far too distant to be conclusive, and with no audio we cannot tell if Finicum was shot before or after he lowered his hands.