GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #3

[Bravo]

KATUMeghan Court dox say Jonathan Holt admitted he waited for Whitney Heichel outside of her apt.and asked for a ride.

Wonder if he left out the part and when she said No I took her by force :furious:

 

[surrogatemom]

Holt's wife filed a missing persons report when he disappeared LAST YEAR.

 

[ByTheSea]

It sounds like she let him in the car willingly, and he pulled the gun 5 minutes into the ride according to the information he gave the police.

 

[gngr~snap]

Holt's wife filed a missing persons report when he disappeared LAST YEAR.

:what: uh oh!

 

[TravelingBug]

I disagree, many think he planned this, therefore looking for first degree, but motorcycles get like crazy MPG, hard to imagine a perp with a motorcycle and needing to fill up mid crime spree.


MOO

If he was used to his bike and great mpg that might explain if there were (I realize thoughts on this differ) multiple gas purchases - he might well have underestimated how much gas would be necessary to fill up Whitney's bigger (and more gas hungry) vehicle...or might have underestimated how far he could get or if he'd have enough for his varied route that he took her on.

That could allow for either multiple stops for gas, or even just what had initially sounded like multiple purchases at the same station (he could have put in 20$ worth or whatever, then realized that hardly moved the needle in an SUV, and then gotten more immediately).

It'll be interesting to eventually hear more details on exactly what the timetable/details of this ended up being.

 

[msthinksalot]

If there's one thing to be taken away from this... one lesson to learn in this utterly nonsensical, stupid act, is that ladies, WE HAVE TO STOP BEING SO NICE!!!

We are under no obligation to be nice all the time. I'm sick of this idea that "nice girls do ___, nice girls don't do _____". Let's stop being nice to people. If a neighbor you don't know really well asks you for a ride... offer to call them a cab. Make an excuse. Say you don't have time. Say anything.

From the time we are young, we are taught that we are obliged to be accommodating, to be nice, to effectively open our boundaries to whatever, and then to be "polite" even when our boundaries are violated.

So many JWs on this board spoke up earlier and said "Oh, WH would never have given him a ride, because we are not supposed to do that...". True enough, but it was an awkward situation and she was alone and she probably wanted to be nice and neighbourly. Sometimes the social pressure to be nice and do the right thing overrides our own boundaries.

I'm not saying this to blame Whitney... it's not her fault AT ALL. It just really, really upsets me, because there is this expectation all the time that women should be "nice" and when nice girls are nice, bad guys take advantage of them, or worse.

 

[bdawk20]

Meghan Kalkstein ‏@KATUMeghan Dox: Holt forced Whitney to perform a sex act on him, then shot and killed her. Says he then hid her body on Larch Mountain #findwhitney

1m Meghan Kalkstein ‏@KATUMeghan
5 mins into ride, he pulled a gun on her, and forced her to drive to Roslyn Lake. Documents say Holt admitted all of this. #findwhitney


2m Meghan Kalkstein ‏@KATUMeghan
Court dox say Jonathan Holt admitted he waited for Whitney Heichel outside of her apt.and asked for a ride. #findwhitney

This one's almost too much for me. Reading the details of what happened to Whitney, it's like I can feel how afraid she must have been. This case has really gotten to me.

 

[laura08]

Wonder if he left out the part and when she said No I took her by force :furious:

Exactly what I was thinking. I'm not buying it.

 

[crazymomof4]

~ curious the distance the JW church is now trying to take concerning this attender of their church ("irregular attender"); .

The man that gave the statement (which included the term "irregular attender" is Jim Vaughn. Fri night/ Sat he was praised here by many posters for being "good", "very calm and well-spoken" "a gentleman", "dignified". By stating that JH was "irregular attender" isn't it possible that he was merely stating factual information regarding the recent status JH has taken in the congregation? I'm sure the public is curious as to where JH stood in the congregation. Should Jim have lied and said JH was a regular attender if he wasn't? If his aim was to "put distance" he could have done so more effectively by bashing JH publicly.

Someone who was considered "not a regular attender" would be termed "inactive" or "weak" in this faith...and a step away from being considered apostate (if he admitted not believing anymore, or not following the governing body of JW). Things do not necessarily go well for those apostate in this belief system.

I'd much prefer to not have to type these responses, but things are sometimes innocently said by non-members of a group that are not altogether accurate. So as one of JWs all my life (48 yrs.. gulp!) I feel I must clarify to prevent misinformation from spreading. To say that an "inactive" one is "a step away" from "apostate" is like saying the stock boy at Walmart is a step away from being the CEO. Among all the hundreds of JW's I've known there have been several who have become inactive, NOT ONE is considered "Apostate" (by definition: renunciation and [italics wiki's] criticism of, or opposition to, a person's former religion). Apostates publically speak out against their formal religion in an attempt to get others to fall away. JH was NOT this or else the Heichels would not be watering their plants or helping with a motorcycle. We don't associate with apostates. To put this in perspective: if you had a certain belief (political, religious, moral, etc) would you seek to associate with someone who vehemently and bitterly ripped at this belief in an effort to change your belief whenever you are together? I don't think anyone would want to put themselves in that position.

~ curious that though only 'acquaintances' the wives were facebook friends, and they were close enough neighbors to water plants, etc., for the Holts when they went on vacation; we only have our longtime closest neighbor friend do watering and mail collection for us when we go on trips--certainly not anyone who we'd categorize as only an 'acquaintance' has access to our house key

Speaking personally, I've accepted facebook friend requests from persons who are even less than acquaintances. Often, I've done so just to not offend them, no closeness there at all. I've since gotten brave enough to "just say no" tho! LOL I've learned that "facebook friend" and "friend" can hold two very different definitions.
Re: the plant watering. Notice that the Holts asked the Heichels. The Holts (or maybe the wife only arranged the plant watering) obviously felt the Heichels were trustworthy. Either Whitney had no plants or pets or they got someone else to tend to them when they were away. Otherwise, I'm sure it would have been stated, "We watered each other's plants when we went on vacation".
Clint said in the interview, "I helped him with his (JH) motorcycle, you know, just to be friendly." That doesn't sound like a relationship where they are doing things together a lot. If they were watching Sunday football games together and having bar b ques, why would Clint have use helping him with his motorcycle "to be friendly"? Doesn't make sense.
One neighbor was watching the goings on in the complex enough to tell the press that JH always kept his motorcycle on every time he entered his home after parking his bike yet with several neighbors interviewed they all said they never saw the Holts and Heichels together.

Here's my take, for what it's worth... We all have oddballs in our secular or social circles. Persons that function in life but are just a little off. You can't quite put your finger on it so rather than be overtly rude, you just put on a friendly face, act "neighborly" but keep your distance. I think that JH was getting into things that didn't fit the standards of JW's- , drugs, drunkeness. We know he was a peeper. He had distanced himself from the congregation by becoming an irregular attendee. Something was brewing but maybe was just at the rumor stage. I think Clint and Whitney chose to keep their distance. The Heichels were very social and had a lot of friends they did stuff with (see Whitney's fb pix) but did Clint say about the Holts, "I just don't understand it. They were our FRIENDS. We shared so many good times. We were so close! Why? How could he do this?" ? No he boiled their relationship down to the "neighborly" actions of watering plants and helping start a motorcycle. Whoopie. Fun stuff! No, I don't think they were close at all.

 

[msthinksalot]

Holt's wife filed a missing persons report when he disappeared LAST YEAR.

:what:

I wonder what he was doing then? :furious:

 

[StreetcarRider]

I don't understand how the multiple gas purchases fit into this timeline?

And, if I'm reading things correctly, why he would have thrown his own phone at the lake?

 

[Knox]

Holt's wife filed a missing persons report when he disappeared LAST YEAR.

That's it? No other details given?

 

[sarx]

:what:

I wonder what he was doing then? :furious:

Is there a date for when this happened? May want to cross check that against MP cases.

 

[justwannahelp]

Here's Thomas Road near the South end of Rosalyn Lake

http://goo.gl/maps/2qdbR

 

[Ashfox]

So she did willingly give him a ride despite the JW rules?

ive never known of any rules saying you cant it might look bad to some but who knows what story she was told? I personally still think that he was waiting for her and she may have even refused to give him a ride which made him pull out the gun and tell her to get into the seat and drive i wonder what he said to her i would be shocked if someone just came to my house even a neighbor early in the morning asking for help he had this thought out

 

[Bravo]

Exactly what I was thinking. I'm not buying it.

Thank You. This is his version. Whitney will never be able to tell the details he can. Other than what forensics shows. I just never take a killer's confession verbatim.

 

[thess]

ive never known of any rules saying you cant it might look bad to some but who knows what story she was told? I personally still think that he was waiting for her and she may have even refused to give him a ride which made him pull out the gun and tell her to get into the seat and drive i wonder what he said to her i would be shocked if someone just came to my house even a neighbor early in the morning asking for help he had this thought out

If he admits to pulling the gun on her five minutes into the ride, and everything else he admits, why would he lie about exactly when he pulled the gun?

 

[Knox]

Holt's wife filed a missing persons report when he disappeared LAST YEAR.

Did anyone else hear the details?

 

[ingra1327]

link to probable cause document

http://images.bimedia.net/documents/Holt+PC+doc.pdf

 

[Neptune]

Originally Posted by CaringCitizen
For me, the smile/laughing at the presser by Clint is solved in my mind now. He was looking at his wife and smiling the same way they do with each other in almost all of the photographs we have now seen.

This is exactly what I thought -- and people who read his behavior and characterized it as deception were my pet peeve. Her Facebook page was available to the public. All one had to do is go through those photos to see that not only were Clint and Whitney in love, but giddy in love. Playful, loving, goofy together. What transpired in such a short amount of time caused a paradigm shift in Clint's view of his life. You can't expect that when a person goes through something like this and their life changes so abruptly that their mind suddenly shifts too -- it goes through a process/absorption period and wants so badly to return to a prior mode. When Clint got in front of a group of cameras (awkward for anyone) he said "what can I say?" and then he looked at the photo of his beautiful wife -- someone who always made him smile and laugh and, for a few seconds, he did exactly that: smile. Then his face flashed a few seconds with "this can't really be happening". And then reality set in and we saw him overwrought as he remembered she was gone. It was happening. Good lesson for people who believe "eyes only" tell the truth.