GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #3

[Boodles]

I think it's highly likely he will plea out. They are appointing him an attorney, and even if he decides to plea out and make a deal, they still have to go through the process of formally charging him, etc.

IMO, having spent 6 years working as a legal assistant - 2 of those working for a criminal defense attorney - if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, yadda yadda. He had intimate knowledge of the crimes and he told them where everything happened. The only way an attorney could get him off at this point is if they were able to form a convincing argument that his confession was obtained under duress. But that still doesn't explain how he knew the intimate details of the crimes. MOO, IMO, JMO.

I hope they do a plea deal for life w/o parole. It would be a shame to drag WHs family through a trial. But who knows what tack this might take once an attorney is appointed to him. Hopefully they don't cook up some "diminished capacity" or some other ruse. Sometimes it's just the right thing to do to say, "yes, I did it. I accept full responsibility and the repercussions." Because this dude is dangerous and needs to stay locked up permanently.

 

[TxLady2]

The word "voluntarily" is used when law enforcement asks them to come in and they comply. They do this before going to the trouble of getting warrants, etc. I'm pretty sure they called him -- he didn't just commit a serious crime, take a life, discard all the evidence he could think of, hide his gun, go home, get cleaned up, lie to his wife and then decide "hey, I think I'll now go chat it up with the local police -- see what they know". And do this 3 times. No, "voluntarily" is a euphemism for "or else".

A lot of times, they don't call them to come in voluntarily. They go to their house or place of work and say, "you've got two choices, you can come in willingly to answer questions, or we can put the cuffs on you and do it that way, it's your call." Then if the person wants to go on their own, they have a police escort in case they decide to make a run for it. Nine times out of ten, they will choose to go willingly.

 

[TxLady2]

What someone said is that they heard he was being charged with abuse of a corpse (although I have not seen those charges publicized yet, so might just be a rumor). Abuse of a corpse could be something as simple as moving a dead body unlawfully from one place to another. The abuse of a corpse here would be moving her from Dodge Park to Larch Mountain. It does not necessarily mean anything sexual or kinky or ultra weird.

I think he did this all alone.

I think in some states, abuse of a corpse can also be merely burying the body because it would require 'handling' the body to put it in a grave. Plus, it's illegal here to bury a body without embalming them, unless it is cremated. Matter of fact, there are many things that can fall into the category of abuse of a corpse.

 

[TxLady2]

Actually, his confession doesn't prove he did it. Though it will likely get him a guilty verdict. (There have been many, many false confessions for whatever reason down through the decades.)

It does if they have his DNA in her vehicle and evidence that points to him as the perp, along with his confirmation of certain details that only the killer would know. I would say they pretty much have it wrapped up.

 

[surrogatemom]

Have they said a word about where the gun was found (if found)? I don't believe so, right? I am super curious as to where that was found, if they found it.

I still can't get over how he just threw things in random places like that. It's almost like he wanted to be caught. He spread clues out, it doesn't sound like he wiped anything down (like the steering wheel), he didn't set fire to anything. I mean, I'm glad they have what they do on him already, but I just wonder why he was so.. I don't even know what the word is?!

 

[white rabbit]

well i'm stumped. it took me all morning to catch up and i'm still not seeing anything from MSM or LE to explain this:

- according to the affidavit, there is no mention of the gas stop. why? and no confirmation of clint's bank record transactions? surely these are key pieces of the timeline and confession.

- the affidavit doesn't mention the broken window either. when was it shattered and where?

http://media.oregonlive.com/gresham_impact/other/holtpc.pdf

- dna was found on the steering wheel...ok i get that. but between the multiple gunshot wounds in one location, the transport, and the body discard, wouldn't there have been massive (and i mean massive) amounts of blood all over the car, etc? there's no mention of it. i find that odd. to me that's the most telling of all evidence and they knew that from day one when the search party and LE canvassed dodge & larch.

he was sloppy, disorganized, frenzied...but there are still missing pieces of the puzzle. IMO. no i don't think he was in cahoots with anyone, but who was the woman in the passenger seat at the gas station if whitney was laid in the back???

and has she been interviewed?

sorry if this has been discussed...my frustration is showing. TIA.

 

[Bravo]

I think the 2nd gas station sighting was never proven and never confirmed by LE. I think it was just an honest mistake when the Attendee was asked had they seen the vehicle. I believe there was a bit in MSM that was never put out by LE.

 

[TxLady2]

I completely disagree with the idea that being nice to people frequently provides negative returns. What happened to Whitney Heichel was a profound tragedy, but the death of kindness would be a tragedy on another level.

Obviously, people need to use common sense, but what a miserable life someone must lead when they assume everyone in the world is out to get them. Contrary to the "nice girls go out of their way to be accommodating" idea, I think most people today, especially women, are taught to be afraid of everyone, with reason or not. How many times do you hear people say they've taught their children to be afraid of strangers, instead of teaching their children to read and interpret behavior?

Violent crimes are rare, especially within the context of people doing each other favors. Loneliness, bitterness, and fear are widespread, though- I can't support anything that serves to further those things. Assuming that your neighbor is going to stab you in the back or shoot you in the front is no way to go through life. And frankly, I don't think that Whitney Heichel being less "nice" in this situation would have made much of an impact on the results.

Very good post! I agree. Whitney wasn't murdered just because she was nice. He had this in his mind, and would have found some other way if she had refused to give him a ride.
Not only 'nice' women are murdered, many 'not so nice' ones are murdered as well. Wasn't there a serial killer who preyed on prostitutes? Or is that just a t.v. movie? Whatever. I still prefer 'nice' to grumpy and mean spirited.
I think Whitney's life had a purpose, and I am so sorry it had to end the way it did, but it was not because she helped out a neighbor. It was because he was a sick, twisted person who was intent on doing what he did, and if it had not happened to her, it would have been some other woman. HE is the one to blame here, not Whitney, not Clint. He did this on his own, nobody told him to do it, and I bet he had it planned well in advance, with alternate plans in case it didn't work the first time.

 

[Boodles]

well i'm stumped. it took me all morning to catch up and i'm still not seeing anything from MSM or LE to explain this:

- according to the affidavit, there is no mention of the gas stop. why? and no confirmation of clint's bank record transactions? surely these are key pieces of the timeline and confession.

- the affidavit doesn't mention the broken window either. when was it shattered and where?

http://media.oregonlive.com/gresham_impact/other/holtpc.pdf

- dna was found on the steering wheel...ok i get that. but between the multiple gunshot wounds in one location, the transport, and the body discard, wouldn't there have been massive (and i mean massive) amounts of blood all over the car, etc? there's no mention of it. i find that odd. to me that's the most telling of all evidence and they knew that from day one when the search party and LE canvassed dodge & larch.

he was sloppy, disorganized, frenzied...but there are still missing pieces of the puzzle. IMO. no i don't think he was in cahoots with anyone, but who was the woman in the passenger seat at the gas station if whitney was laid in the back???

and has she been interviewed?

sorry if this has been discussed...my frustration is showing. TIA.

The police have not said there was a woman in the passenger seat at a gas station. I truly believe this was misreported or misidentified by an attendant.

As for the details, they may not release any until (if there is one) a trial. What has been released was the probable cause for arrest document which provided the basics to secure an arrest, I guess.

I, too, am very curious about the logistics of this case. I wish I wasn't!

 

[possumheart]

I suppose the locals realize that Whitney's high school is famous for guns. Gosh. Where did JH get the stupid gun?

 

[white rabbit]

I suppose the locals realize that Whitney's high school is famous for guns. Gosh. Where did JH get the stupid gun?

i cannot post the link, but there was a comment on a blog a few days ago that alluded to his family owning guns.

what that means i have no idea. but when the holts' neighbor mentioned that he'd visited his parents last week, that sprang to my mind.

with mod approval i can find it somewhere if it hasn't been removed.

 

[TxLady2]

Personally I would be caught off guard it someone else's husband, a peer no less, asked me for a ride. I'm sure if WH had a choice she would have avoided being alone with JH. It either didn't go down how he said or he lied about the urgency of the situation when he asked for a ride and didn't give her a chance to say no.

Even my best friends's husband would probably rather walk 5 miles than ask me for a ride alone. I would certainly think its odd for someone else's husband under the age of 60 associated with my congregation my to know how things work and still ask for a ride.

That's funny, because here in the south we are known for our hospitality. I would give a neighbor a ride in a heartbeat. I've had people give me rides that I barely knew. My husband will stop and pick up a stranger if they're stranded with car trouble. Both of us are still alive. We help people out, and think nothing of it.
Now, that's not to say that I'm not careful, I have to know the person. And sometimes if I'm in the car I've had to caution my husband not to stop if a person looks a little suspicious or I'm not familiar with the area. You never know. But I refuse to live my life being paranoid and distrustful of everybody. Down here we get to know our neighbors, they're not strangers.
I'm sure there have been cases where someone was murdered by someone they stopped to help, or even by people they were acquainted with, but it's not that common, AFAIK.
I know that the world is getting to be less and less safe every day, but I believe things happen for a reason and we just don't know what those reasons are, here on earth.

 

[Melancholy]

Just to be clear, I was not in any way saying that you had implied it as a JW "rule". I was just trying to help others understand as to what Thess was saying, without upsetting anybody. But I in no way meant to imply that you said it was a rule. Sorry to upset you but as I said, I did not at all mean it in that way.
I think I will just refrain from posting on this thread from now on.

FruitTingles, I just want you to know I completely understood that you were explaining Thess's interpretation of what I said. I meant my comment directed more to Thess, but definitely not YOU. *hugs* sorry for the confusion, I did not take offense at what you said, apologies are not necessary COME BAAAACKKKK

 

[TxLady2]

Just to add.... there is a difference in being nice and being polite. I can politely refuse to be nice, if I get a hinky feeling about someone. The point is, maybe Whitney would still be alive if she had not given the man a ride, and maybe not. He could have shot her dead right there in the parking lot, for all we know.
As to whether he pulled the gun 5 minutes later, who cares? Did he check his watch and time it? It is not going to matter to a jury when he did it, she was shot, so it's a moot point. His defense attorney is going to try to say she is to blame, because that's what defense lawyers do... blame the victim. It doesn't matter to me at what point he pointed the gun at her or if he forced himself in the car or she was nice and offered him a ride. The point is, she didn't have to die. That was HIS choice. He could have let her go, he could have chosen not to kill her. What difference does it make in the end??? All this discussion of whether to be nice or not be nice is pointless. Women get raped and killed for a thousand different reasons every day, and many of them have fought like wildcats while still others went along with the perp's demands and STILL ended up dead. It doesn't matter, if you're in a situation, do what your instinct tells you, it's a crap shoot anyway. You might survive and you might not, being nice or not nice has nothing to do with this crime.
JMO, getting off my soap box now.

 

[nursebeeme]

i cannot post the link, but there was a comment on a blog a few days ago that alluded to his family owning guns.

what that means i have no idea. but when the holts' neighbor mentioned that he'd visited his parents last week, that sprang to my mind.

with mod approval i can find it somewhere if it hasn't been removed.

sorry.. comments under articles are considered rumor.

 

[gngr~snap]

The police have not said there was a woman in the passenger seat at a gas station. I truly believe this was misreported or misidentified by an attendant.

As for the details, they may not release any until (if there is one) a trial. What has been released was the probable cause for arrest document which provided the basics to secure an arrest, I guess.

I, too, am very curious about the logistics of this case. I wish I wasn't!

I am having a few problems too!
This is STILL not adding up!

OK. They found JH's prints in her suv.
What else did they find?

We have the grl that parked her suv for her explain
why her prints would be in it.

That was no big deal to me until I heard CH state he helped JH
jump start his bike and that he and Whitney had fed his cats before,

I admit I am jaded from all these cases.

Why is LE been given reasons for CH's prints to be in the perps home and on his bike as well?

Did LE find CH's prints on JH's bike?
Did they find prints or dna in JH's home from Whitney or Clint?

Also in the quick interview yesterday morning with CH, said "Whitney didn't deserve this."

??? I guess I would have rather heard him say "Whitney didn't deserve THAT."

All they evidence just dumped in trash cans...
Along with where the phones were found... Hers was meant to be found. JH's was not. IMO.
:waitasec:

:twocents::moo:


"She didn't do anything to deserve this. It's just ... why? That's the only question. Why?"

http://abcnews.go.com/US/murdered-barista-whitney-heichel-raped-shot-times/story?id=17534209

 

[Seahorseladydi]

My thoughts and prayers go out to the friends and family of Whitney...

this case just makes my heartbreak!

 

[IronyDetective]

This is what I was referring my previous post to. .

I've been thinking a lot about this very topic after following Whitney's case. Up til now I've been a very obliging and friendly person, almost too much so - even in circumstances when my gut felt like something was amiss. In future if someone were to approach me for entry into my home or car my answer is going to be "I'd love to help but I'm sorry I can't." My guard is up and it isn't coming down. Sweet Whitney. You will never be forgotten. :heartbeat:

 

[sissylala]

That's funny, because here in the south we are known for our hospitality. I would give a neighbor a ride in a heartbeat. I've had people give me rides that I barely knew. My husband will stop and pick up a stranger if they're stranded with car trouble. Both of us are still alive. We help people out, and think nothing of it.
Now, that's not to say that I'm not careful, I have to know the person. And sometimes if I'm in the car I've had to caution my husband not to stop if a person looks a little suspicious or I'm not familiar with the area. You never know. But I refuse to live my life being paranoid and distrustful of everybody. Down here we get to know our neighbors, they're not strangers.
I'm sure there have been cases where someone was murdered by someone they stopped to help, or even by people they were acquainted with, but it's not that common, AFAIK.
I know that the world is getting to be less and less safe every day, but I believe things happen for a reason and we just don't know what those reasons are, here on earth.

You may not understand, it is not exclusively a safety thing. Its really more like, you just do whatever you can not to be alone with someone else's husband or wife.

Of course if its an urgent situation things are a little different but its still awkward for me to be alone with an other woman's husband. If he were being considerate, I'm sure someone who is associated with us would understand that.

Especially since we are such a family in the congregation, there is rarely a time when there isn't a more appropriate person around to call who can do the transporting. We'll go out of our way to help people, so maybe I won't give someone a ride but probably my husband would do it even if its completely out of his way.

The point I'm making is - its really just something that a person, who is associated with JWs and considerate to his spouse and the other person and their spouse, doesn't ask a member of the opposite sex to be alone with them, unless there is absolutely no other way.

So its not that we are unreasonable or unneighborly, I may not be best friends with my neighbors but we all know each others names, we're part of the neighborhood watch and we actually do a lot of plant watering, dog/cat sitting and taking people to the doctor because a good few of our neighbors are elderly.

I do live in Los Angeles though, bad things happen here all the time. Maybe I read the news too much but I don't trust anyone I don't know (and some that I do) farther than I could throw them but that doesn't mean there's no way to help others. I've only picked up a stranger on the road once, she was obviously pregnant with a toddler but even she was reluctant to take help from a stranger. I have called the tow service many times for others.

 

[Dushi]

I am having a few problems too!
This is STILL not adding up!

OK. They found JH's prints in her suv.
What else did they find?

We have the grl that parked her suv for her explain
why her prints would be in it.

That was no big deal to me until I heard CH state he helped JH
jump start his bike and that he and Whitney had fed his cats before,

I admit I am jaded from all these cases.

Why is LE been given reasons for CH's prints to be in the perps home and on his bike as well?

Did LE find CH's prints on JH's bike?
Did they find prints or dna in JH's home from Whitney or Clint?

Also in the quick interview yesterday morning with CH, said "Whitney didn't deserve this."

??? I guess I would have rather heard him say "Whitney didn't deserve THAT."

All they evidence just dumped in trash cans...
Along with where the phones were found... Hers was meant to be found. JH's was not. IMO.
:waitasec:

:twocents::moo:


"She didn't do anything to deserve this. It's just ... why? That's the only question. Why?"

http://abcnews.go.com/US/murdered-barista-whitney-heichel-raped-shot-times/story?id=17534209

Been lurking through this , but I have one question

I am not sure I understand the difference in your opinion between Clints use of the word "this" rather than "that"