GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #4

[PoirotryInMotion]

well I just read the whole thing (http://media.oregonlive.com/gresham_impact/other/holt1.pdf) and had to take a few breaks.

There's so much to comment on/speculate/etc. UGH so SO glad there's solid evidence in this whole thing. A LOT of the lingering questions people had seem to have answers in that affidavit too. Good night WS'ers I need to step away from this for the evening :/

Sadly, I disagree. Though many of this forum are seeming eager that it appear so. It looks like someone is taking great pains to try to supply some 'solid evidence' for this case, but when looked at closely, it's really not. In fact, it's absurd.

Eg. - the Febreze bottle found in the car where they were able to lift 'a fingerprint'...

I'm sorry, but a guy with a car full of blood and brain matter from multiple gunshot wounds is NOT going to try to clean it up with a bottle of household Febreze. That would be laughable if this case weren't so tragic. Even if he's a moron, as many of you seem to think he is. Think about it--where did this clean up happen?

• Did he go into Walmart and buy that bottle, come back out and try to clean it up? I presume this happened in the parking lot? (is it on video that he bought it at Walmart? that the guy was messing around in the back seat of the car?) NO? Then where else?

• On the road, while driving to all those gas stations and ATM machines? Sound feasible to anyone on here?

• In the woods? (Okay, so he planned ahead, grabbing bottle from home before he left? So...this so-called idiot has now planned thoroughly enough to take for this abduction/murder a bottle of Febreze, not 1 but 2 guns to kill an unarmed, unsuspecting, 5'2", 120-lb. young woman, and a screwdriver so that he can thoughtfully drop the front license plate off in the mountain to lead searchers to his victim.)

(BTW, if it IS a bottle from home, there's another--actually far more believable--reason the bottle has his fingerprints on it, and it's not necessarily MURDER. Maybe he actually did some chores?)

*Expect to see an amended pdf out in the next couple of days to answer these and other questions. We'll probably also discover he's killed cats as a youth, poisoned his mother, and sold secrets to foreign intelligence.

I believe there was more than one perp involved in this, I know there has been untruthful accounting, and I look forward to watching this case unravel in the days ahead.

 

[Tracey4AU]

I want to know about that white vehicle in the Wal Mart parking lot. Connected or not? If so, who was driving it?

 

[peace9274]

Honestly, I can't imagine that he had an accomplice. If he did it would been a case of doubled stupidity.
If you're going to talk to the police, at least come up with a better story than 'I was robbed by two black guys' to explain loss of
evidence LE will only find anyway. Everything else he did is equally disorganized and ill-conceived.

Given the pdf information revealing more about him and his history, I would be concerned as well that this is not his first offense,
or at the very least, it seems he could be suspect in prior attempts or stalkings.

For whatever it's worth, I was made aware of this case because of this site. I followed a google link on the Jessica Ridgeway case
because I'm in Colorado and like many women here, wasn't sleeping and was following the news daily hoping there would be an arrest.
I then saw the picture of Whitney on this site and was immediately touched by her face alone. When I read the story of her disappearance
and saw reflections of her life and relationship with Clint and her family on her FB, she won my heart so deeply. It was also this site that informed me
about the press conference by the police and when they removed the tip line board and flipped the page to reveal a male's picture, it was clear enough what had happened.
However, it was clear already that she wasn't coming home to her loved ones alive.

I had wondered if during his arrest he told them where to find her and the pdf indicates he did. Thankfully, she was then soon located and in the care of LE.

A couple of questions since I'm a bit confused with all the pdf info and the previous reports...the document indicates her killer had
been using her/Clint's iPhone 3G as his own. Was this the phone referred to previously by LE? I thought I recalled previous reports
of him tossing his own phone as well as Whitney's. And is this iPhone the same phone the wife of JH called ATT about? If so, where does she
think he got the phone? Or did I misunderstand?

BBM
:welcome4:

The phone mentioned in the pdf Search Warrant/Affadavit is Clint's old (previous) iphone 3G.
Holt stole it out of Clint's dresser, inserted a new sim card and used it as his own.

Clint said he was not aware it was missing until LE mentioned it to him and he went home
to check the dresser drawer and discovered it WAS in fact missing.

Holt told LE, during his confession interview on Oct 19th, that during the time he and his wife (AH)
had a key to the Heichel's apartment (to water plants for them in Aug) was when he stole the iphone.

He told LE tossed it at Larch Mountain (?), which they later recovered.
He tossed Whitney's later in the day at an apartment complex, where children found it.

AFAIK, there's no mention of Holt telling his wife (AH) where he got Clint's stolen iphone nor where she thought he got it.

Make sense?

OK! I'm really rushed now trying to pack and do errands etc, before leaving for a 6 week trip... tomorrow at 5 am!

I'm off to see my middle son, DIL & my new grandson in GA. Then to NYC to see my youngest son and his fiance and attend their engagement party.
Then to RI to see oldest son, DIL & 2 little granddaughters. Then back to NYC & then spend thanksgiving with the fiance, my son & her family in the Poconos!
Then back to GA to see new grandson again!! Whew

When Whitney first went missing, I came here to read about the case.
I knew right then, everything I had to do would be left until the very last minute!
I'm off to run some errands now (which should have been done last week!!) and
then to the pool to get some color and then to the gym, which I neglected to do all week!

 

[rmarie3]

Regarding the Febreeze. Perhaps it was already in her car and he figured it might work? Because I also cant see him having time to purchase it - OR be dumb enough to think it is a cleaner.

Random - but I have a bottle in my car right now. When I clean/vacuum my car I have it handy to spray down my seats to keep the fabric smelling nice.

But do we know if she most likely had leather? That would explain him being able to wipe it down enough for it not to be too visible - but for it to still be stuck in the stitching and creases as the pdf mentions...

 

[peace9274]

If anyone has a full pdf version they can email me - I still have blank/redacted pages. It may be my browser or it could be my mac...?

I just sent it to you, rmarie3.

 

[Ronso]

For having more than one gun, how do ANY of us know his intentions? He may have intended to do more harm than just kill Whitney. Who knows? Nothing about his actions makes much sense to me. But I believe he acted alone.

It's just like the Matthew Hoffman case here... so many people said he HAD to
have had an accomplice, but he didn't. Trying to make sense of senseless acts will drive any person mad.

 

[brooklyn55]

Regarding the Febreeze. Perhaps it was already in her car and he figured it might work? Because I also cant see him having time to purchase it - OR be dumb enough to think it is a cleaner.

Random - but I have a bottle in my car right now. When I clean/vacuum my car I have it handy to spray down my seats to keep the fabric smelling nice.

But do we know if she most likely had leather? That would explain him being able to wipe it down enough for it not to be too visible - but for it to still be stuck in the stitching and creases as the pdf mentions...

I was thinking the same thing- I keep it in my car for when it starts smelly musty from our rainy weather. Did he think he could freshen up with some Fabreze and then no one would notice the pools of blood in the back? Maybe he did it just in the front seats so when he got gas it wouldn't be as noticeable?

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

BBM
Was he calling Starbucks at 6:08 amto see when WH was due in for work, so he could know when/if she'd be leaving her apartment?

Was he not thinking the call could and would eventually be traced?

Never mind.

Based on all the other stupid things he said and did... JH doesn't seem to think, period!

I think the call might have been made by Whitney to Starbucks...a call for help. (Yes, that early.) I also believe that could have prompted the angry tossing of the phone into the lake.

 

[nikb]

Yes. I'd like to know why also!
And if there's any other(s) besides Whitney.

I so hope not, of course! I keep worrying there were/are others but then I also keep thinking he was so apparently careless or stupid in terms of leaving evidence all over the place, it seems like he'd have been caught before now.
Maybe he's assaulted before but this assault got "out of hand" and it's the first time he went so far as killing someone?

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Regarding the Febreeze. Perhaps it was already in her car and he figured it might work? Because I also cant see him having time to purchase it - OR be dumb enough to think it is a cleaner.

Random - but I have a bottle in my car right now. When I clean/vacuum my car I have it handy to spray down my seats to keep the fabric smelling nice.

But do we know if she most likely had leather? That would explain him being able to wipe it down enough for it not to be too visible - but for it to still be stuck in the stitching and creases as the pdf mentions...

It would have had her fingerprints on it.

 

[nikb]

This appears to be the "turn out area" at 40740 SE Thomas RD as described in the PDF where the sexual assault and killing took place:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Port...Kon9bnYJlHCD9BYZQBA&cbp=12,54.16,,0,0.06&z=17

Wow thanks for finding this! It doesn't look nearly as off-the-beaten-path as I thought it would. Maybe at such an early hour it is. It doesn't seem to be very hidden at all, though.

 

[nikb]

No i was just wondering aloud. The Affadavit states the phone he stole was Clints and in a drawer. So he must have been really going thru things. I just had this horrid feeling he may have taken some of Whitneys "personal items". Just speculating.

Me too. When someone house-sits you always wonder (or I do anyway) if they're going to peek in your medicine cabinet or top desk drawer or something, but IMO it sounds like he was going through their personal belongings pretty thoroughly.

 

[Elainera]

I think the call might have been made by Whitney to Starbucks...a call for help. (Yes, that early.) I also believe that could have prompted the angry tossing of the phone into the lake.

She was still at home at that time. Why would she have needed help?

It would have had her fingerprints on it.

Maybe it had but there was no reason to mention that in the affidavit.

Wow thanks for finding this! It doesn't look nearly as off-the-beaten-path as I thought it would. Maybe at such an early hour it is. It doesn't seem to be very hidden at all, though.

It looks like he assaulted and killed her in the back of the car. It has tinted windows, it's not easy or even impossible to see inside. And the space being very open he would have been able to see anyone approaching long before they got close.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I did manage to load the full pdf, but had to move from iPad to PC.

Since the license plate was on the front of the car in the Shell video at 9:15ish, he must have been driving around with the body in the car. I am so gobsmacked by that. I agree, Neptune, it makes no sense that he was driving around the 257/Stark area before Larch Mtn. I'm just not believing he had a coverup accomplice. Who would help him?

It might help to look at that question more loosely..."Who might be with him?"

I think he placed the guns in those places in order to be able to retrieve them later. In his mind, I think he wanted them back if LE didn't arrest him. He was torn between "are they onto me? Am I busted?" and "it's cool, they don't know..." That's gotta be why he kept the guns close by, so he could get them back if he walked out of there free. Which goes to show you how warped his perceptions were.

Just trying to think like a criminal here...but if I wanted to put my gun in a place I could retrieve it later if not arrested, on Police Station property is the LAST place I would hide it. The gun was left there, but not for that reason.

 

[Melancholy]

I think the call might have been made by Whitney to Starbucks...a call for help. (Yes, that early.) I also believe that could have prompted the angry tossing of the phone into the lake.

Why would she be calling at 6:08am from a phone in JH's possession?

Edit To Add: and if she were having a window to make an emergency call for help, what would lead us to think she'd call starbucks and not CH or 911?

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Originally Posted by PoirotryInMotion
I think the call might have been made by Whitney to Starbucks...a call for help. (Yes, that early.) I also believe that could have prompted the angry tossing of the phone into the lake.

She was still at home at that time. Why would she have needed help?

I have an opinion about that but I'm told it's not welcome on this forum.

It would have had her fingerprints on it.

Maybe it had but there was no reason to mention that in the affidavit.

Maybe. Defense should be able to check on that easily enough.

It looks like he assaulted and killed her in the back of the car. It has tinted windows, it's not easy or even impossible to see inside. And the space being very open he would have been able to see anyone approaching long before they got close.

The assault would have also been less visible if it had happened at an earlier hour--when it was dark out, with little traffic.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Why would she be calling at 6:08am from a phone in JH's possession?

Edit To Add: and if she were having a window to make an emergency call for help, what would lead us to think she'd call starbucks and not CH or 911?

Really good questions. It could be she used whatever phone she could get her hands on if she had a window of time available (hers was probably taken from from the start).

Why Starbucks and not CH or LE?

Possibly she felt Starbucks was somehow in a better position to help her for whatever reason. (Location? Something else?)

 

[Melancholy]

Really good questions. It could be she used whatever phone she could get her hands on if she had a window of time available (hers was probably taken from from the start).

Why Starbucks and not CH or LE?

Possibly she felt Starbucks was somehow in a better position to help her for whatever reason. (Location? Something else?)

I guess I'm not clear on why you are theorizing she had JH's phone at 6:00 am, 45 mins before she was out her door.

And, sorry but as a (married) woman, there is no WAY that in a tragic, terror-filled state where I fear for my life, would my gut instinct be to call my employer....my first gut would be to call my husband, and as I get what you seem to be alluding to, if not my husband, to 911 or my family....

I can think of no reason that a call to Starbucks would be her go-to phone call in an emergency pinch.

 

[recyclops]

That's exactly what I think too. Does LE by default look at past unsolved murder/rape/assault cases in the area when a murderer is captured? I hope they do.

I wonder if AH will file for divorce? My thoughts keep coming back to her - how awful she must feel now. Jeez she slept with the guy, kissed him, loved him ... She probably had hopes and plans for the future, wanted children ... It would make me sick to be in her position now. Did she suspect anything, anything at all, apart from that he probably lied to her? Did she ever find the child ?

Sounds like they were having a rough time in their marriage prior to this event(and JWs don't divorce unless there is adultery)...she's probably knocking people over in her hurry to get to the courthouse to file for divorce.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I guess I'm not clear on why you are theorizing she had JH's phone at 6:00 am, 45 mins before she was out her door.

And, sorry but as a (married) woman, there is no WAY that in a tragic, terror-filled state where I fear for my life, would my gut instinct be to call my employer....my first gut would be to call my husband, and as I get what you seem to be alluding to, if not my husband, to 911 or my family....

I can think of no reason that a call to Starbucks would be her go-to phone call in an emergency pinch.

I believe she was in a situation that would be terribly hard for most of us to relate to. Whatever her final actions, though, they made perfect sense in her situation, and would be clear when one could back away and see the whole picture.

I have a picture that all this fits into, but at mod request am really not going to go there in this thread.