GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #4

[johncharles360]

Very awful sick tragedy, but very happy Perp has been caught.

 

[Neptune]

Or maybe he had a similar phone to hers and he tossed it thinking it was hers. He then realizes it is hers when Clint starts calling and texting. Maybe he has it in his pocket the whole time and he's walking past the Troutdale apartments when he realizes this and just tosses it into the woods.

This is what I was thinking... in his panic he tosses the wrong phone.

What HAS TO BE EXPLAINED somewhere down the road is what Mrs. Holt was thinking when:
a. My Facebook friend Whitney is misssing.
b. My husband's motorcycle is here, but he's gone most of Tuesday.
c. My husband's phone is suddenly lost after Tues.

So, did he go replace his phone?? If it was an accidental toss into the lake, then did he go to his provider's store and say he needed a new phone and a replacement SIM card (or whatever his phone uses) or did he just go without? What pray-tell did he say to his wife? Don't bother calling me, honey, my phone's in a lake.

 

[La Louve]

Excellent first post. I agree with every word you said.

I also thought that he saw someone in the parking lot of the BestBuy (where his friend was shopping inside) and he decided quite rashly to act on his impulse to hop into the driver's seat and do something.

If he was successful in doing something, there *might* be a record of it on or around August 2011 or he may have failed in his attempt. He was gone long enough for the friend (who rented the car) to report it and for Jonathan's wife to be questioned about his whereabouts. He was gone long enough to do something or come close to doing something. It was just one step closer to the kind of thing he would eventually do to Whitney Heichel.

The former neighbor's wife that Jonathan spied on at balcony level was very lucky.

And in 2011, the fact that he had a rental car at his disposal that would not immediately be connected to him, that must have been a big green light for him.

If he was gone 12 hours in 2011 he definitely had enough time. He managed to commit his crimes last week in under five hours. He's been practicing, and learning from his mistakes.

Would be curious to know what the former neighbor who was peeped on looks like. Wonder if she matches the wholesome image of JH's wife and Whitney.

 

[pugglesworth]

Yes, I'm sure many of us are...as well as LE. He said that he went to a park in Washington close to where he grew up....

He grew up on NE Portland (Parkrose) though...I mean I guess he might have lived in Washington before that, but it sounds like they moved into that little house in NE when he was very young. I wonder if he fibbed to his friend. He could be (pure speculation) a pathological liar who is just in the habit of spinning tale on tale on tale even when it isn't necessary. They are often oblivious to the fact that their stories are too elaborate or don't quite add up, I have noticed. That could explain his constantly changing story to the police even as he kept volunteering to come back for another interview.

 

[Melancholy]

I don't know, i'ts reported that women can occasionally have orgasms even while being raped. Sometimes it's purely a physical thing regarding being to "perform".

Hmmm I don't know if I think that is the same. Arousal causing action is very different than a physical response to circumstances. He wouldn't have WANTED it in the first place if there wasn't arousal on his part.

Also thought what if she bit him and that caused a rageful experience and he shot her.

Yes!!! I have thought this too!

 

[pugglesworth]

We have one of those in our neighborhood. He tried to get on with the City and County, finally settled for ASH (state mental facility, go figure). He loves to play traffic cop with folks driving by his house, lol. I force myself to make brief polite chit-chat in gatherings, then beat feet away from him. Hubby feels exactly the same

I wonder if this how people felt about Holt? Was he socially awkward?

I wonder if he couldn't pass the screening tests or interviews as an EMT despite having the license, honestly. MAkes me think of how often you find that a violent man had previously been rejected from the police or army because of his mental problems or odd behavior.

 

[scadder21]

Hmmm I don't know if I think that is the same. Arousal causing action is very different than a physical response to circumstances. He wouldn't have WANTED it in the first place if there wasn't arousal on his part.



Yes!!! I have thought this too!

He could have fantasized about it enough and became sick enough mentally that he finally went through with the kidnapping sexual part of it and once it was over he realized the consequences and killed her to cover it up.

None of this seems to me like he killed with malice. It was more like instant rage/natural reaction of being bit, or realizing the consequences of kidnapping and the raping and knowing he had to get rid of her because it it.

The remorse from the 3rd pic of him in the suit shows me he's not cold blooded. He was in an altered state of either sexual lust and came down and had to try to get rid of it, or anger from being bit.

 

[Neptune]

For those looking for info on place of crime…

Sorry, but I only work in Google Earth for finding places because I make extensive notes with pins (not public). In Google Earth, you can plug in 45°25'5.55"N 122°14'41.56"W and it will take you to the place listed on the Probable Cause document. Rosyln Lake is supposed to be just North of this road (abutting it), but on Google it doesn't show a lake – I understand from another poster that the lake is gone. (So where’s JH’s phone?)

Time & Date of Crime:
10-16-12 Tues
8:40am
40000 to 41000 block of SE Thomas Rd
Clackamas County (Sandy) Oregon

Latitude 45°25'5.55"N
Longitude 122°14'41.56"W

Dodge Park is directly north.

The most obvious route from Dodge Park to where the crime occurred (not sure which crime) is via Lusted Road heading South. If you follow Lusted Rd from Dodge Park south to SE Thomas Rd at approximately half way between 40000 & 41000 it's approximately 2.5 miles.

If you get on Google Earth streetview and "slide" down the street between 40000 to 41000 you get an idea of the surroundings.

How this has occurred in this location and no one reported 4 shots is confounding to me. I realize it's near hunting areas, but Dodge Lake and Whitney's disappearance was all over the news.... and no one in this area called in and said, I think I heard consecutive 4 shots? Or, maybe they did....

 

[laura08]

His wife probably wanted her marriage to work more than anything. Most try there best working out realtionship or marriage in a 1st relationship (not sure this was her 1st) I believe she probably knows alot about Holt and is looking back at everything and questioning it. I'm sure alot went on behind closed doors, with his behavior and ways. He probably controlled and manipulated his wife and lied often to her. I don' think Holt is who she thought he was when she married him and then maybe she felt trap and thought she could change him to be a better person.

 

[gwenabob]

For those looking for info on place of crime…

Sorry, but I only work in Google Earth for finding places because I make extensive notes with pins (not public). In Google Earth, you can plug in 45°25'5.55"N 122°14'41.56"W and it will take you to the place listed on the Probable Cause document. Rosyln Lake is supposed to be just North of this road (abutting it), but on Google it doesn't show a lake – I understand from another poster that the lake is gone. (So where’s JH’s phone?)

bbm

I believe the phone was recovered and is with LE right now.

 

[pugglesworth]

The places he took her were so...specific. They are well-used outdoors places but not the most famous or the most remote in the area. I am wondering if he had some history with those locations, if he had been scoping them out and maybe even testing to see if gunshots would be noticed, at what time was safest to go, etc.

 

[msthinksalot]

He grew up on NE Portland (Parkrose) though...I mean I guess he might have lived in Washington before that, but it sounds like they moved into that little house in NE when he was very young. I wonder if he fibbed to his friend. He could be (pure speculation) a pathological liar who is just in the habit of spinning tale on tale on tale even when it isn't necessary. They are often oblivious to the fact that their stories are too elaborate or don't quite add up, I have noticed. That could explain his constantly changing story to the police even as he kept volunteering to come back for another interview.

I may be wrong, but I swear I remember reading somewhere in the news that he'd gone to Washington Park... ? Does anyone else remember that, or was it my eyes misreading "a park in Washington"?

 

[FrayedKnot]

Well, he also held a job as a head cashier--a position that indicates trust and responsibility by employers.

(*sigh* I feel with many of my posts on here that it might seem I'm communicating support for him,--but I'm not one to support a perp who'd do this sort of crime. Fact is, I'm only trying to dig at truth, and separate it from speculation in the process of trying to figure this all out...I'm really sorry if that is a problem with anyone. :-/ )

Lol, not a problem at all, because this is a place for respectful discussion even if opposing opinions are in place.

But since you mentioned it, you do seem to be voicing support for JH. And again- he hasn't gone to trial yet so if ever there was a place to pose the "but what if he didn't do it" questions, this is it!

Honestly, I think the guy is guilty as sin but there are some GAPING holes in this whole story and I'm anxious to sew 'em up.

 

[pugglesworth]

His wife probably wanted her marriage to work more than anything. Most try there best working out realtionship or marriage in a 1st relationship (not sure this was her 1st) I believe she probably knows alot about Holt and is looking back at everything and questioning it. I'm sure alot went on behind closed doors, with his behavior and ways. He probably controlled and manipulated his wife and lied often to her. I don' think Holt is who she thought he was when she married him and then maybe she felt trap and thought she could change him to be a better person.

I would not be surprised if he had a serious and escalating problem with . In fact I would be shocked if he did not, given what else we know about him. I would also not be surprised at all if he was abusive and manipulative with his wife.

 

[pugglesworth]

I may be wrong, but I swear I remember reading somewhere in the news that he'd gone to Washington Park... ? Does anyone else remember that, or was it my eyes misreading "a park in Washington"?

One source said Washington Park (which for non-locals, is where our Zoo is and other family activities, but also a lot of sketchy activity back in the wooded areas at times--think somewhat like Central Park in NYC) and the other said a park in WA. I am not sure which was accurate. And neither is particularly near his childhood home.

 

[CabinFever]

I wonder if he couldn't pass the screening tests or interviews as an EMT despite having the license, honestly. MAkes me think of how often you find that a violent man had previously been rejected from the police or army because of his mental problems or odd behavior.

or, maybe Oregon is one of the States that now require that you also pass your Nationals test before being allowed to work as an EMT? It's possible that he didn't pass...yet....
also, a past post (way back) said that a drug charge was brought up (& a surprise to his wife) during a background check. That would explain why he was not able to practice in that field - at least not in California.

There are so many possibilities but I don't think being an EMT relates to this crime....
He is just a very disturbed individual that needs to be locked up so that he doesn't ever kill again, no matter his religion or employer or education or otherwise.

 

[scadder21]

So does anyone think that if there even up being some unsavory connection between Holt and Whitney but not pertent to the trial that it won't be reported to the press? Or does everything discovered about everyone come out at trial even if it doesn't have to do with it?

 

[scadder21]

Or to put it clearer, would information come out about personal things in these peoples lives if it wasn't relevant to the actual murder? Only the person charged has personal things come out like the EMT job and the "mental breakdown" and all that.

 

[B4igo2it]

I don't know if that could be possible due to the fact that it takes over 40 minutes without any traffic to get from their apartment complex (Heatherwood Apartments) to his work (Canteen Vending Services). Considering she was leaving only 15 minutes before 7am when she was scheduled, this would have been impossible for her to do for him without letting her employer know she was going to be significantly late. She would've had to have called her employer before that 5 minutes later when JH supposedly pulled the gun on her.

Map from the apartments to his work:
http://goo.gl/maps/2C8mr

thank you. he is a liar! I still wonder if he broke out the passenger window and was already in the vehicle. Still, a person standing there with a gun aimed at you if very intimidating too. Evil ... pure evil he is.

 

[msthinksalot]

This is interesting:

Kyle Iboshi ‏@KyleIboshi

Reports suggest Holt took friend to look at home he and wife were looking to rent in 2011. Wife later told police she knew nothing about it

https://twitter.com/KyleIboshi

Quoting myself... I feel very stupid and maybe everyone else *got* this instead of me. I kept thinking about this wondering WTF... why would his wife not know about him bringing his friend to a house they were going to rent. Then I thought, why would she deny knowing if she did?

Then of course, DUH. He brought his friend to a house that he said he was going to rent with his wife, but his wife didn't know anything about them supposedly renting that house.

I'm assuming it was an empty house.

She would have known he was lying about significant things at least back to ~August 2011.