GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #4

[nikb]

Northeast Roberts is in Downtown Gresham. If you look at it on Google Maps, it is a few minutes from the Best Buy on Division (Gresham Station). If you go South on Roberts and East on Powell, It would be about an 8 to 10 minute drive to the complex both parties had their apartments at. Their apartments were off of Hwy 26. So the timeline would be August 2011 in Roberts Street Apartments. I am guessing May of 2012 JH and AH moved next door to WH and CH, based on a Facebook comment date left on one of WH photos.

BBM... just a minor point of clarification if no one's mentioned this yet. Unless the Holts moved twice, once next door to WH and CH and then another move in the same complex, they didn't live next door to each other. Same complex, but different buildings and apparently across the parking lot from each other.

http://www.oregonlive.com/gresham/index.ssf/2012/10/news_of_whitney_heichels_death.html

Snippet, BBM:
"The only sign that tragedy had made a home here was the small memorial laid out next to the Heichels’ door. A collection of candles had melted into themselves, flowers were propped up along the wall and a piece of black foam board, full of messages, was attached to the door frame.

<snip>

Just across the parking lot, in another of the complex's buildings was a second door, this one belonging to Jonathan Holt, the man police have arrested in connection with Heichel’s killing."

 

[Melancholy]

http://www.kgw.com/home/Murder-victims-husband-never-suspected-neighbor-175659891.html[/URL]

<snip>

&#8220;We just tried to be the best people we could and not hold a grudge &#8230; there&#8217;s a bad sheep in every community &#8230; I don&#8217;t want to make a huge spectacle. What&#8217;s taken place is horrible, I'm just doing the best I can to keep moving forward without her,&#8221; he said.

I am a bit confused with the part i bolded. Does CH mean that he and Whitney didn't try to hold a grudge and that is why they were friendly and watched their cats? What grudge???? Was their something previous that we don't know about?

That is what it sounds like from his wording. But maybe the article is written poorly - or CH is just exhausted and saying he doens't hold a grudge now? But the 'WE" and past tense made me pause...

I think in the context of the whole thought he was presenting (the part I underlined) it's apparent he is talking about the present situation...I believe he miss spoke, and is expressing that he and his family are trying not to hold a grudge right now.

ETA: or he is giving background as to the kind of people he and his wife tried to be (not the type to hold a grudge and the best people they could be) and then went on to try and reflect that in this situation too.

Moo and all that jazz

 

[Sasquatch]

Wow, excellent post! The route makes sense to me even though I don't know the area. I agree with your thoughts on the Black Explorer, too, now that I've seen the photo with the muddy back wheels. From the position of the parking of the car at Walmart, I'm also reasoning the front plate was the missing one (even though it seems the rear plate would be the one you'd want off on a highway where police are out looking for your plate. More visible.) And since the front end was clean, it doesn't seem likely it would have come off maneuvering in the brush, so I am now back to thinking it was taken off. (Also because no mention of the plastic plate holder also having been broken off with the plate like it would if tangled up in the brush.) The parking position (backed in close to bushes) also makes it appear purposeful that the only end visible would be the end without the plate--as though the perp knew the plate was off. If he'd lost it in the mountain accidentally it's unlikely he'd have accidentally also discovered it was missing by the time he maneuvered that parking at Walmart.

But, if we conclude the plate was taken off by the perp:

1) it does appear to make the timing pretty tight. In your plotting out the sequence above, where do the ATM stops fit in?

"Several transactions were made on Heichel's debit card the morning she went missing, including once at a gas station at 9:14 am and again at ATM machines and other gas stations at 9:22 am and 9:30 am, according to police. According to a missing person flyer, a gas station attendant at one of the stations said he remembered seeing her SUV and said Heichel was sitting in the passenger seat with a man driving. The man reportedly bought a small amount of gas."

From: http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...ishes-during-five-minute-commute-to-work?lite

2) why was the plate taken off and left there?

All the other evidence was scattered away from the mountain where the body was hidden. IF the plate was taken off to evade police alerted by the Amber alert, then...

a) why the front plate? (the rear is more visible to others traveling on the road in that it gives more reading time than the front plate seen briefly from the other side of the road)

b) why not keep the removed plate in the car and take it back into town to discard it somewhere so that the body would not be found as easily? (Finding the body and the weapon are the two things that most speed up finding the perp.)

I'm no killer, but I'm trying to get into the head of the perp here, and it's just not making sense, still. Purposefully leaving that one key clue up on the mountain instead of easily bringing it down with him...it's almost as though he wanted the body to be found before too much time passed.

I think I figured out the reason for the multiple gas stops and route. The first purchase of gas by JH was reported at 9:14am at the Troutdale Shell Station, corner of 257th and Stark. He probably headed north on 257th(down the hill) and looped around on Frontage Streets. You first go under bridge head West then loop around back to East because they are one way streets that run parallel to each other. Heading East on Frontage he probably bought a small amount of gas at Chevron then probably at Flying J all on the same strip. Then getting back on Frontage, it throws you East onto I-84 where you can take a Corbett Exit a ways down toward Larch Mountain. He worked at Subway once next to this Exit.
The reason for small amounts of gas purchase was to probably not require a signature. He had worked retail and probably understood the rules of signatures on Debit/Visa Cards with purchases over 25 dollars. That is why he probably gassed up 3 times , not to prompt a signature and get caught.
After heading to Larch Mountain, then trying to cover up his crime, he headed back the same way, same distance and took the Wood Village Exit dumping the vehicle at Walmart. Walking over the Wood Village bridge as I thought earlier. So the timeline would be Roslyn Lake, crime committed at 8:40am then discarding evidence at Dodge Park briefly, and driving the backroads up Stark to the gas station. Filling up under 25 dollars, heading North toward I-84 on 257th, looping around Frontage gassing up a few more times under 25 dollars then jumping directly on I-84 to Larch. Covering up crime at Larch, then driving back. Someone said it was a 40 minute drive from there to Larch Mtn. So it is possible to bring back and dump the vehicle in the llam hour. Walk back to 257th on the trails and dump WH phone. Catch a bus on 257th back toward his apartment. Again, just a theory, but possible.

 

[SmilingSweetly]

As a JW I feel I have to respond to this. I think your view of how closely JW's are "watched" by our congregation elders, or other members is a bit skewed. I have a facebook page and I present my life exactly as it is, which is pretty bland as I'm 48 yo mother of 4. But I've seen the fb pages of some younger JW's and some post pix that uh, surprise me a bit. W/o going into detail they show scenes of a lifestyle that, if I were their parent I'd worry. I've even seen some adults who have pix up that make me go, "uh, OK". Being honest here. Soooooo my point is Whitney DID NOT have to stage some *FAKE* lifestyle on fb so that she would be viewed as "pure" by others looking on fb. I cringe at the idea that people think we are "Stepford Christians" constantly looking over our shoulder waiting to be flogged if we don't measure up to "perfect" standards. Whitney would not be feeling such a intense pressure from our religion so as to go out of her way to create a facebook impression (of all things!) that was a complete facade. The thought actually makes me laugh.
It also makes me wonder.... is there so much badness in the world that when we see something or someone truly good we automatically think it's too good to be true and figure there must be something foul hidden underneath? :waitasec:

Hey there! Nice post! I think what happens is that people take in their own experiences and confuse them with groups as a whole. My husband is non-active JW and most of his family and friends are in various stages of being JWs. Within our area, many of the JWs know one another and I've noticed that many people do hide (or omit) what they are doing so that their parents/relatives/Elders do not find out. Several have been disfellowshipped because of things they previously did in which someone they knew told on them. One of our friends asked me to block her mother-in-law on Facebook so that she wouldn't know we were going somewhere together because I am not a JW and married to a non-active person. Keep in mind that I'm 29, married with two kids and am probably just as boring as you! Needless to say, I didn't block her mother-in-law because I don't play those games. Many of the younger folks we know hide their posts from certain people, however, you are right in saying that some do not care. It really depends on your location and the people you are dealing with, however, as with most groups.

 

[masyann]

I to looked on Google earth and could see no house on that address. Unless its part of the property and its the house on the other side. I may be looking at it in the wrong way.

 

[nikb]

<snipped for space>

I think WH's FB has been deleted... (I can't find it)

<snipped for space>

Some of us saw a posing about her needing bloodwork and kidneys stones.
Was this in Aug 2011? Anyone remember this?

I know it's silly but this kind of makes me sad. I liked reading her page and getting a better sense of who she is/was.

I do remember seeing a picture of her after she'd gotten some blood work done and IIRC it kind of looked like she was on a hospital type gurney/bed. I don't remember the kidney stones part, but I might've missed it.

 

[rmarie3]

<snip> .
The reason for small amounts of gas purchase was to probably not require a signature. He had worked retail and probably understood the rules of signatures on Debit/Visa Cards with purchases over 25 dollars. That is why he probably gassed up 3 times , not to prompt a signature and get caught.

<snip>

A lot of your theory makes sense except for the 'small amount of gas' reasoning. I live in OR and it costs around $100+ to fill my truck. I have never had to sign anything using my debit - be it $5 or $105. And with JH being from Oregon as well I assume he would know that. No signatures.

So - I still have no clue why the small amounts...

EDIT: I generally do NOT get my gas at Shell however, so maybe it is different? But for example I filled up just yesterday at a Chevron and no sig required... but that IS with my debit and I suppose that makes a difference on what type of card he was using of WH.

 

[Ronso]

You wouldn't have to sign for a debit purchase, but you do have to sign for a credit purchase over $25 here. I figured it was everywhere else too.

 

[Melancholy]

You wouldn't have to sign for a debit purchase, but you do have to sign for a credit purchase over $25 here. I figured it was everywhere else too.

It used to be that way here too until as prices skyrocketed and people were having to sign for each visit. It costs 90+ to fill our vehicle and we have never signed

 

[Ronso]

Here it's everywhere, not just gas stations...

Of course maybe he didn't know that changed also?

 

[nikb]

As a JW I feel I have to respond to this. I think your view of how closely JW's are "watched" by our congregation elders, or other members is a bit skewed. I have a facebook page and I present my life exactly as it is, which is pretty bland as I'm 48 yo mother of 4. But I've seen the fb pages of some younger JW's and some post pix that uh, surprise me a bit. W/o going into detail they show scenes of a lifestyle that, if I were their parent I'd worry. I've even seen some adults who have pix up that make me go, "uh, OK". Being honest here. Soooooo my point is Whitney DID NOT have to stage some *FAKE* lifestyle on fb so that she would be viewed as "pure" by others looking on fb. I cringe at the idea that people think we are "Stepford Christians" constantly looking over our shoulder waiting to be flogged if we don't measure up to "perfect" standards. Whitney would not be feeling such a intense pressure from our religion so as to go out of her way to create a facebook impression (of all things!) that was a complete facade. The thought actually makes me laugh.
It also makes me wonder.... is there so much badness in the world that when we see something or someone truly good we automatically think it's too good to be true and figure there must be something foul hidden underneath? :waitasec:

Thanks button just wasn't enough. THANK YOU for an excellent post.

 

[crazymomof4]

****clapping and throwing confetti****
Thaaaaaank you for that (and for being more eloquent then I was haha). I am sitting here with one eyebrow up on some of the things people say and infer about JWs on here Lolol.

Oh, I didn't know you responded earlier. I'm so behind in reading this evening bc I actually got some things done today. LOL
Yes, but the misinformation here on this site is just bc of really not knowing, or knowing someone that made a personal choice and it was misinterpreted as being part of our religion.
I don't feel that anyone means any insult or is disrespectful at all, (unlike other places on the internet)
This is nice, well moderated forum!

 

[Boodles]

<snip>

A lot of your theory makes sense except for the 'small amount of gas' reasoning. I live in OR and it costs around $100+ to fill my truck. I have never had to sign anything using my debit - be it $5 or $105. And with JH being from Oregon as well I assume he would know that. No signatures.

So - I still have no clue why the small amounts...

EDIT: I generally do NOT get my gas at Shell however, so maybe it is different? But for example I filled up just yesterday at a Chevron and no sig required... but that IS with my debit and I suppose that makes a difference on what type of card he was using of WH.

But did you input your debit PIN when you used the card? If he used it as "credit" over $25, he would have to sign. He wouldn't have had the PIN required for debit.

 

[nikb]

But did you input your debit PIN when you used the card? If he used it as "credit" he would have to sign, and he wouldn't have the PIN.

I was thinking that too, but if she were still in the car (as has been rumored a few times and reported in MSM but not confirmed by LE) and he had the gun on her, she might've given him the PIN.

 

[crazymomof4]

<snip>

A lot of your theory makes sense except for the 'small amount of gas' reasoning. I live in OR and it costs around $100+ to fill my truck. I have never had to sign anything using my debit - be it $5 or $105. And with JH being from Oregon as well I assume he would know that. No signatures.

So - I still have no clue why the small amounts...

EDIT: I generally do NOT get my gas at Shell however, so maybe it is different? But for example I filled up just yesterday at a Chevron and no sig required... but that IS with my debit and I suppose that makes a difference on what type of card he was using of WH.

I was pondering this as well. Someone in an earlier post said they remember reading that someone who knew JH said he was considered "slow". So there is the possibility that he personally only ever used cash for gas or only himself got small amounts at a time using a card (I know people who only get as much gas as they can afford that week). If this were the case, he may have truly thought that if he spent more he'd have to sign. Maybe his mind could not think beyond what he'd learned in retail "no sig w/ purchase under..." and he had no personal experience with gas purchases to know any different.

 

[Boodles]

I was thinking that too, but if she were still in the car (as has been rumored a few times and reported in MSM but not confirmed by LE) and he had the gun on her, she might've given him the PIN.

Yeah, but even he admits he killed her at the lake. It's highly unlikely she was wounded/dead/held hostage while in the passenger seat. Betcha she was on the folded down seats...

 

[recyclops]

I understand what you're saying. There's a recent (2012) conviction of a rapist/murderer in raleigh, nc, of Jason Williford. His crime was brutal, very violent. He came into the trial admitting he did it, but in his defense, they tried for "mitigating circumstances" based on influences of alcohol and drugs (snorted Ritalin) and a history of being "off" to account for his hyper sexual deviancy and actions that night. In some ways, I think JH may have similar issues....a very, very messed up guy with deep disturbances culminating in violent acting out. This guy in NC had broken into houses (seeking an adrenaline rush from the crime), and would watch in the houses he broke into. He was not unintelligent, but was socially awkward (that's an understatement), and had a history of anger, rage, and secret perverted, deviant hyper sexual behavior. It's a horrific case. I wonder if we'll find out this guy has similar deep issues.

That's interesting...did they ever state why he was considered "off"? Did he have some sort of diagnosis? I really think something is going to come out in JH's trial about his state of mind, some kind of diagnosis or disability. imo

 

[nikb]

Oh, I didn't know you responded earlier. I'm so behind in reading this evening bc I actually got some things done today. LOL
Yes, but the misinformation here on this site is just bc of really not knowing, or knowing someone that made a personal choice and it was misinterpreted as being part of our religion.
I don't feel that anyone means any insult or is disrespectful at all, (unlike other places on the internet)
This is nice, well moderated forum!

Well darn you for getting stuff done today...

I agree, I think it's just not knowing, at least for me. When I very first read this story I was totally confused about someone who's a JW working at Starbucks because of the whole caffeine thing. Google search quickly showed I was completely mixing up/blurring religions. Not to get off on a religious tangent, but I appreciate learning more and being more informed.

After hearing CH's interview earlier and his comments about AH, I am so glad for them both that they have such a great source of support. I'm in awe that CH is being so compassionate towards AH too. I know there's no reason not to be, but he's gotten to that place incredibly quickly IMO. Much as I'd like to think I'm that 'good' of a person I think for awhile even the sight of anything or anyone connected to JDH would be very difficult and upsetting. I don't know if it's his faith, part of his nature, or probably some combination, but I was really touched by his comments about AH. I bet it was a huge relief for both of them but especially her when they had the chance to get over that 'hurdle' of seeing/talking to each other.

 

[Melancholy]

Oh, I didn't know you responded earlier. I'm so behind in reading this evening bc I actually got some things done today. LOL
Yes, but the misinformation here on this site is just bc of really not knowing, or knowing someone that made a personal choice and it was misinterpreted as being part of our religion.
I don't feel that anyone means any insult or is disrespectful at all, (unlike other places on the internet)
This is nice, well moderated forum!

I agree completely!

 

[recyclops]

Well darn you for getting stuff done today...

I agree, I think it's just not knowing, at least for me. When I very first read this story I was totally confused about someone who's a JW working at Starbucks because of the whole caffeine thing. Google search quickly showed I was completely mixing up/blurring religions. Not to get off on a religious tangent, but I appreciate learning more and being more informed.

After hearing CH's interview earlier and his comments about AH, I am so glad for them both that they have such a great source of support. I'm in awe that CH is being so compassionate towards AH too. I know there's no reason not to be, but he's gotten to that place incredibly quickly IMO. Much as I'd like to think I'm that 'good' of a person I think for awhile even the sight of anything or anyone connected to JDH would be very difficult and upsetting. I don't know if it's his faith, part of his nature, or probably some combination, but I was really touched by his comments about AH. I bet it was a huge relief for both of them but especially her when they had the chance to get over that 'hurdle' of seeing/talking to each other.

For some reason that seems to be a common mistake, the blurring of JW's and Mormons beliefs. Kudos to u that you did ur research.
I agree about CH. I can't imagine how that meeting was that they both attended(CH & AH), for them, for everyone...talk about raw emotions! I just get from him that he is just a super guy, even now under all this duress.