GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #5

[Glow]

Im going back to reread the PDF files and to study joefridays pictures some more, but before I do that im wondering if anyone knows why he wasnt charged with premeditation. He apparently thought about it enough to know he was going to abduct her to be out there at that early hour and to have the gun in his posession when he went out.

I dont know but you raise a good question. I need to go back and read it again also. I need to go back and read it again myself. Some feel that all the shell casings were found under the drivers seat. I thought I remembered reading that one was on the side of the passenger seat (near where the seatbelt holder is attached). I think I do remember that the report said that all 4 casings were found in the vehicle.


Maybe when we go back and re read things will be a little clearer for both of us!

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

IF that means he only shot the gun four times, and shot her in the car...I have to wonder (given the extremely tight time frame that I think IndyAnna posted about)...why drive all the way to Dodge Park and Roslyn Lake to kill her in remote area but IN THE CAR...only to drive back to rush-hour traffic in Troutdale to fill up the car everyone's looking for and then backtrack back up into Larch MT.?

Why not hide the body down at Roslyn Lake area, drive the car north and maybe west a bit, and catch a bus back to Gresham?

In other words, why was it so necessary to hide the body on Larch Mt. that the killer would risk gassing up two or three times to do so?

But...after answering your post, La Louve, I thought of this...the killer abducts her when she's expected for work at 7 AM. Would the killer have necessarily known if/when the bolo was put out?

Wouldn't it still be risky driving back into town with a bloodied victim's car, filling up at a couple gas stations just so he could drive miles away to another remote place to hide her body--when he probably wasn't aware of whether or not a bolo was out yet--but certainly could assume people had now noticed her missing?

I mean, I'm doubting he was listening to current news on the radio during her abduction and attack. And, if he tuned in after he killed her, the lack of hearing an alert for her car wouldn't necessarily make him think it was safe to drive her crime scene back into town...surely there was a gas station enroute to Larch Mt?

 

[Desdemona]

And maybe the biggest question of all (for me):

After all this planning, and evidence distribution on Tuesday--

Why would the killer "volunteer to be interviewed" by LE the very next day, as well as on Thursday and Friday...as well as voluntarily submitting to DNA & fingerprint testing on Thursday while he still has no legal representation?

Please don't tell me it's because he's stupid. This is your basic human self-protection instinct I'm thinking about.

I think he was cornered by the lame robbery story he told the Judds to explain why he'd skipped work and been missing all day and why he was on foot when they encountered him. IMO he wasn't counting on church members seeing him on the road, nor on having to give anyone an accounting until he was ready.

The encounter forced his hand, and he was stuck with that story. Since his wife didn't believe the story, since he'd disappeared like that before, since the story involved an armed robbery, since he knew Whitney, and since he had indeed been unaccounted for on the day she disappeared, well... unfortunately for Holt, he really had no choice but to talk to LE, any way you look at it IMO.

With all his "clever" criss-crossing, backtracking, hiding of evidence/ clothing/shoes/weapons etc... and the cleaning up of the vehicle -- IMO Holt appeared to have thought he'd covered his tracks. One of those dumb criminals who think they've outsmarted the police.

And then came the piece de resistance: the stupid robbery story. In his desperation to throw suspicion off himself for having been missing on the day Whitney disappeared, he would need to appear willing to work with LE on the "robbery" story, which portrayed him as a victim of a crime. Why lawyer up when you're confident in your own ability to fool the police? Common mistake made by dumb and arrogant bad guys, IMO.

 

[Xavier]

Except that Clint didn't report Whitney missing to the police until around 10 a.m. and the gas station stops occurred between 9 and 930 a.m. So no one was looking for her SUV at the time of the gas stops. (ETA: well, the authorities weren't looking for her)

Also if Holt had Whitney drive straight to Dodge Park at the time of the abduction, they would have been out there by 7:30 at the latest. The affidavit seems to suggest Whitney was shot at 8:40. So they could have been out there for over an hour before he killed her.

I wonder if Whitney tried to save herself with words. She seems like she was very dedicated in her faith and could possibly have tried to show Holt compassion. Perhaps she was talking the whole time, reassuring him that he was still God's child and this could still turn out okay. Perhaps she had some inkling of whatever his inner torment was/is and thought she could show him some grace and compassion and save both of them. And maybe that's what enraged him even more, to the point of shooting her.

Poor Whitney, what a waste of a beautiful soul's life.

Yes i agree with your comments, Whitney maybe tried to persuade Holt to quit now, maybe she told him she'll forgive Holt and keep quiet about it......It's SO strange I can't figure out What Was Holt's motive for killing Whitney?

He went from romantic fantasies of Whitney to ballistic, out of control killer....

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Thanks for your comments, Desdemona. And the first part I could almost buy. But when police ask for your DNA samples, (2nd time called in), even innocent parties would tend to resist and want to proceed slowly, knowing that means they're suspect. Most would not volunteer DNA samples (esp. when still without a lawyer), unless one felt it would be of some real benefit to oneself -- if one felt he would be exonerated through it. IMO

 

[Quester]

Thanks for your comments, Desdemona. And the first part I could almost buy. But when police ask for your DNA samples, (2nd time called in), even innocent parties would tend to resist and want to proceed slowly, knowing that means they're suspect. Most people would not volunteer DNA samples (esp. when they are still without a lawyer), unless they felt it would be of some real benefit to themself -- if they felt they would be exonerated through it. IMO

Perhaps the DNA samples/fingerprints were cleverly requested, and subsequently provided, for the "robbery" of JH case?

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Perhaps the DNA samples/fingerprints were cleverly requested, and subsequently provided, for the "robbery" of JH case?

Maybe. I'm getting back to the pdf doc; see if I find anything suggesting that...

 

[Desdemona]

IF that means he only shot the gun four times, and shot her in the car...I have to wonder (given the extremely tight time frame that I think IndyAnna posted about)...why drive all the way to Dodge Park and Roslyn Lake to kill her in remote area but IN THE CAR...only to drive back to rush-hour traffic in Troutdale to fill up the car everyone's looking for and then backtrack back up into Larch MT.?

Why not hide the body down at Roslyn Lake area, drive the car north and maybe west a bit, and catch a bus back to Gresham?

In other words, why was it so necessary to hide the body on Larch Mt. that the killer would risk gassing up two or three times to do so?

Wha? Gassing up two or three times?? Where does this stuff come from?? I'm only aware of one confirmed fueling stop so far.

---

Okay. Responding to your questions BBM above, with another question:

Wouldn't it be a shocker if it turns out Holt actually didn't shoot Whitney until he got her to Larch Mountain?

Yes, I do know the front passenger window appears open or busted out in the 9:13am Shell video. And I'm aware his confession says he killed her at Dodge/Roslyn.

Bear with me though. It's only a theory, after all. I've mapped it, and the drive times work out.

https://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&so....483725,-122.325211&spn=0.162236,0.31517&z=11

• [ A ]Whitney agrees to give Holt a ride to the bus stop at ~6:50am. Once they reach Hogan, a couple of blocks away, he takes control via gun. It is not known who is driving at this point.
  
  
• The Explorer heads southeast, straight out of town; they head east on Dodge Park Avenue. Perhaps they stop briefly for some reason? Anyway on this road, somewhat east of the fork at Orient, is reportedly where Whitney's sweater was found by searchers later that day.
  
  
• The Explorer heads ~6 miles further east, onward to Rosslyn Lake [ B ] by ~7:20-7:40?, where it is then parked on SE Thomas, and a sexual assault/attack likely occurs. Perhaps this is when the window is broken? The stolen phone is ditched here and later found by LE. Don't know how long they remained here, but they would have left the area by no later than ~8:35-8:40, with Holt at the wheel.
  
  
• Then the Explorer heads north, back in the general direction of town on the way to Larch Mountain, taking the back road (Lusted to Troutdale). At Stark Rd, Holt makes a very short, brief foray west to gas up at the Shell station [ C ] at 9:13, nearly 2.5 hours into the abduction. Then he reverses direction back onto Stark the way he came, continuing east. Note: Stark quickly joins Crown Point Highway, the shortest direct route up to Larch Mountain.
  
  
• The Explorer is on Larch Mountain within about a half-hour. [ D ] This is a hunting area where gunshots would not attract any undue attention. Could Whitney have been killed there instead of at Dodge Park? Could he have driven her here specifically to kill her and dump her body? Maybe she was restrained? Maybe she was promised her freedom until the last awful moment when he shot her? Whitney's body is left hidden on the mountain, along with the front license plate and other evidence.
  
  
• Then another half-hour back west toward town, perhaps using the Interstate. Holt cleans up the vehicle, gets rid of evidence in parking lot dumpsters, and abandons the Explorer at WalMart [ E ] ~11:17 - 11:39, first showing up on video at WalMart at 11:17 or so, about two hours after gassing up at Shell.
  
  
• P.S. *If* Whitney's card was used at the truck stop, as was reported early on, but which LE has not verified, perhaps Holt used it to purchase something there to aid in the cleanup? The truck stop is very close to the WalMart.

Disclaimer: Not saying this is what happened!!

But IMO the drive times match the known timeline points. The routes match the known evidence thus far. It's a total of less than two hours of driving -- one hour, forty minutes per Google estimates.

That would leave Holt three hours to assault Whitney, shoot her, hide her body, and clean/abandon the Explorer. Plenty of time IMO.

Apologies in advance if I've made any factual errors here; I tried my best to get it right!

 

[luckygirl]

I didn't notice if this was posted or not. I very well just could have missed it.

The wife of the man accused of killing a 21-year-old Gresham woman has filed for divorce, according to a court document.

Amanda Holt filed for divorce in Multnomah County Circuit Court Friday, Oct. 26 from Jonathan Holt.

Through a family spokesman last Friday, Amanda Holt thanked the community for its support.

"Amanda wanted to express her gratitude to the community for its support of her – beyond just those in the church family," spokesman Jim Vaughn said.


http://www.katu.com/news/local/Wife-of-man-accused-of-killing-Whitney-Heichel-files-for-divorce-176345321.html

 

[Desdemona]

Thanks for your comments, Desdemona. And the first part I could almost buy. But when police ask for your DNA samples, (2nd time called in), even innocent parties would tend to resist and want to proceed slowly, knowing that means they're suspect. Most would not volunteer DNA samples (esp. when still without a lawyer), unless one felt it would be of some real benefit to oneself -- if one felt he would be exonerated through it. IMO

Hm, well... DNA could have been obtained without his knowledge/cooperation... which would make the whole question moot IMO.

But you are saying Holt voluntarily gave DNA samples, right? Do I understand you to mean this happened the second time he sat down with LE? I don't remember this. Was this before he had confessed everything?

If LE started leaning on Holt, implying they were going to test Whitney's car for DNA, it's possible Holt could have been scared into admitted to getting a ride from Whitney that morning (after the "robbery" perhaps?) -- Who knows? Perps often end up doing this IMO, when the heat is on.

IOW, Holt would seemingly have no reason to object to giving his DNA if he'd already covered his bases by admitting to being in or driving Whitney's Explorer. I'm talking about prior to his eventually coming clean about having sexually assaulted and murdered Whitney. Remember, they had not found her body yet...

Anyway, I see what your point of view is, but don't agree with it in general, and can't agree to your more specific suggestion about Holt's situation since I don't know for sure whether he voluntarily submitted to DNA sampling, or if so, at what point in his multiple interviews and eventual confession he would have done so. Hope that makes sense.

 

[Sasquatch]

[snip]

 

[Desdemona]

I dont know but you raise a good question. I need to go back and read it again also. I need to go back and read it again myself. Some feel that all the shell casings were found under the drivers seat. I thought I remembered reading that one was on the side of the passenger seat (near where the seatbelt holder is attached). I think I do remember that the report said that all 4 casings were found in the vehicle.


Maybe when we go back and re read things will be a little clearer for both of us!

:seeya: I remember what you remember, Glow. BBM Don't recall four spent shells found on driver's floorboard.

However, I might have missed something. Again. :blushing:

Curious to know what you are able to confirm re the shell casings. Thanks.

 

[Sasquatch]

I am going to go back and reread the docs as well.

 

[Desdemona]

I haven't been out to Roslyn Lake in years, so I am speculating that the grove of trees south of the road is fenced off and PGE Park entrance (East) has been gated shut since they drained the lake. It is remote, but mostly private property out that way. I have a feeling he initially didn't take her out there to kill her, or the initial drive would have probably been straight up to Larch Mountain not to Roslyn Lake. He probably stopped by Dodge Park to dispose of the Apron and stuff in the front seat, plus there are Honeybucket toilets where you can get hand sanitizer or throw things in the toilet. I am not sure if the main bathrooms are open this time of year, but there is a building on site.

In my experience, everything that is round or cylinder (chapstick) that isn't in a cup holder or in the glove compartment tends to roll under my seat.

I haven't been out to Larch Mountain, but I believe the last gas stations going East are either the 257th Shell on Stark or the two gas stations on Frontage Road, where the second gas station charge occurred. Next Gas station on I-84 would probably be Cascade Locks.

Now if all 4 casings were in the car, i think no matter where they ejected they probably bounced off something and ended up on the floor. I am just curious about the extremely loud sound a gun makes in an enclosed area. I have never fired a 9mm, but I am sure his ears were ringing. Gunfire out near Dodge Park and Roslyn Lake are not as common as they are out at Larch Mountain. Dodge Park and Roslyn Lake have homes around there and Fishermen. Thompson Road just happens to be on a not so busy road, and the fisherman don't show up there anymore, because the lake is drained.

I can't find the link, but I know there was a person target practicing killed in that area up on Larch Mountain. I remember a couple of teenagers shot and killed someone, on purpose with an M-16, from the trees while the guy was target practicing. I believe the year was around 1993-1995. So Larch Mountain would have Hunters and Target Practicing going on.

Thank you so much for the local details.

Question: Stark (where the Shell station is located) leads east out of town directly to Larch Mountain too, yes? BBM

 

[Desdemona]

For those re-reading the docs:

Has it been confirmed that there was a second stop for gas, in addition to the verified 9:14 purchase at the Shell at 257th/Stark?

Or that there were multiple uses of Whitney's debit or credit card(s) in multiple places? Or that anyone saw Whitney in the passenger seat of her vehicle?

Here is all that I'm finding:

A family friend also told KGW that several transactions were made on Heichel’s debit card, including at ATM machines and three different gas stations.

They said that gas station attendants at one of those locations -- a truck stop in Troutdale - remembered seeing her SUV and said Heichel was sitting in the passenger seat with a man driving. They said the man was acting suspicious and hurried, buying only a small amount of gas.

http://www.kgw.com/news/Missing-Gresham-womans-SUV-found-in-Wood-Village-174492781.html

And:

Clint also said he saw the surveillance video at the Shell station on 257th that showed Whitney's Explorer pulling in, coming from the direction of where her cell phone was found.

"She was pulling in from the Troutdale road side, which is completely opposite of where we live – it's in the opposite direction: there's no reasonable, there's no reason she should be coming up from there, and it was at 9:13, I think it was, when her truck pulled in there," he said. "You couldn't see who was driving, but there's a couple distinct things about her car, and everyone knows their own car."

Clint said bank records show Whitney's ATM card was also used at the T/A truck stop in Troutdale within eight minutes of it being used at the Shell station. He said an employee there recognized Whitney's Explorer and said she was in the passenger seat and a man was driving.

Police said they only have proof of Whitney's Explorer at the Shell station and her ATM card being used there.

http://www.katu.com/news/Police-evi...ssing-woman-case-175019181.html?m=y&smobile=y

 

[Quester]

Why did the perp choose that Tuesday?
WH (7am) and the perp (6am) were each expected at their places of work. CH had the day off.
Wonder what happened at JH’s place of work on the day before, Monday?
Did the perp’s Dad notice anything strange/r about the perp on Monday at work?
Did the perp and wife have a big fight on Monday evening or over the weekend?

* * *

WH’s vulnerability and in turn our vulnerability pains me. I keep running through the scene of JH asking for a ride and wishing WH would have said sure then quickly reversed course, heading back home while saying she’d forgotten something and returned with CH to drive them both to bus? and Starbucks - one simple action to change the awful course of this senseless tragedy.

Wonder if WH had any heebie-jeebie feelings about JH prior to that fateful day?

 

[AvalonBlue]

IF that means he only shot the gun four times, and shot her in the car...I have to wonder (given the extremely tight time frame that I think IndyAnna posted about)...why drive all the way to Dodge Park and Roslyn Lake to kill her in remote area but IN THE CAR...only to drive back to rush-hour traffic in Troutdale to fill up the car everyone's looking for and then backtrack back up into Larch MT.?

Why not hide the body down at Roslyn Lake area, drive the car north and maybe west a bit, and catch a bus back to Gresham?

In other words, why was it so necessary to hide the body on Larch Mt. that the killer would risk gassing up two or three times to do so?

I know we will never know everything we would like to know about this case. Like so many on WS, I’ve read every post since sweet Whitney went missing and have read the court docs as well.

Clearly, JH is not brilliant. Clearly, JH tells “stories” -- like his made-up “being robbed” story.

Although this will remain a horrible crime committed against a lovely, innocent woman, perhaps it did occur more “simply” than we have been led to believe by JH’s alleged “details” of *his* story of his crime.

I *will* re-read the court docs to refresh my memory about *facts* that don’t seem to be related/tied to JH’s timeline. I may find some details there that dispute what I’m about to say, however, for NOW:

Wouldn’t it have been a lot simpler if JH did kill WH at Dodge Park/Roslyn Lake area to leave her body in her vehicle THERE and just leave the scene (after some possible attempt to wipe down fingerprint evidence, etc.), walk back to his apartment/take a bus, clean up, and then go to work late, relating his “robbery” story as an excuse?

I agree with PIM that there is SO much activity that seems basically pointless in JH’s supposed agenda for that morning. Of course, the whole crime was obviously pointless; however, it seems that it could have been much simpler.

 

[Sasquatch]

Thank you so much for the local details.

Question: Stark (where the Shell station is located) leads east out of town directly to Larch Mountain too, yes? BBM

You can take Stark East, over the Sandy River Bridge and that goes toward Larch Mountain. Page 19 of 44 in the Holt1.pdf document states that WH's card was used a second time at Travel Centers of America. From the Shell Station, that is North 257th Street, down the hill and looping around west, then east on Frontage Road. After gassing up there you can just hit the east exit and throws you onto I-84 East toward The Dalles/Hood River. You can go to Larch Mountain from I-84 by jumping back on exit 22 according to this website. I have never personally been up that far on the Columbia Scenic Hwy, toward Larch Mountain. I think a third exit is near Multnomah Falls, toward Larch Mountain.

http://www.oregonwild.org/about/hikes_events/explore-wild-oregon/northwest-oregon-hikes/oregon-wild-hikes-larch-mountain

"Exit 22 for Corbett. Proceed uphill 1.6 miles on NE Corbett Hill Road. At the top of the hill turn east (left) on the Columbia Gorge Scenic Highway, and follow signs for Crown Point and Multnomah Falls. In two miles bear right on Larch Mountain Road. Continue 14 miles through a corridor of second growth forest to the trailhead parking area at the end of the road"

 

[nikb]

<snipped for space>

I *will* re-read the court docs to refresh my memory about *facts* that don’t seem to be related/tied to JH’s timeline. I may find some details there that dispute what I’m about to say, however, for NOW:

Wouldn’t it have been a lot simpler if JH did kill WH at Dodge Park/Roslyn Lake area to leave her body in her vehicle THERE and just leave the scene (after some possible attempt to wipe down fingerprint evidence, etc.), walk back to his apartment/take a bus, clean up, and then go to work late, relating his “robbery” story as an excuse?

I agree with PIM that there is SO much activity that seems basically pointless in JH’s supposed agenda for that morning. Of course, the whole crime was obviously pointless; however, it seems that it could have been much simple.

I agree, the activity seems very frantic to me. IMO the original assault might've been planned, but I feel like the rest of whatever happened just wasn't. I DO think parts of it were planned ahead but it seems to me, anyway (MOO!) that killing her wasn't.

 

[Xavier]

I'd like to hear anyone's suggestions as to What Was Holt's Motive for killing Whitney?

- did she have "dirt" on Holt

- was Holt overwhelmed with jealousy because the Heichels had the kind of warm, loving relationship Holt wanted

...Also when Holt purchased the guns/ammo in June 2012, and he waits 5 months to kill her, Why did Holt wait so long?