GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #5

[Xavier]

I know we will never know everything we would like to know about this case. Like so many on WS, I’ve read every post since sweet Whitney went missing and have read the court docs as well.

Clearly, JH is not brilliant. Clearly, JH tells “stories” -- like his made-up “being robbed” story.

Although this will remain a horrible crime committed against a lovely, innocent woman, perhaps it did occur more “simply” than we have been led to believe by JH’s alleged “details” of *his* story of his crime.

I *will* re-read the court docs to refresh my memory about *facts* that don’t seem to be related/tied to JH’s timeline. I may find some details there that dispute what I’m about to say, however, for NOW:

Wouldn’t it have been a lot simpler if JH did kill WH at Dodge Park/Roslyn Lake area to leave her body in her vehicle THERE and just leave the scene (after some possible attempt to wipe down fingerprint evidence, etc.), walk back to his apartment/take a bus, clean up, and then go to work late, relating his “robbery” story as an excuse?

I agree with PIM that there is SO much activity that seems basically pointless in JH’s supposed agenda for that morning. Of course, the whole crime was obviously pointless; however, it seems that it could have been much simpler.

Good point PIM...Think about this. Holt bought the guns/ammo in June 2012. Now, whether he made the purchase of guns to carry out this murder or was just wanted to own a gun, you have to wonder if he planned to murder WH why did he wait 5 months to kill her?

I think Holt, who's probably never murdered anyone before, was so stunned he actually killed WH, that his mind raced in hodge podge fashion, reckless and missing all kinds of details that a hardened criminal likely would not messed up on..

And I read the judge during the preliminary hearing told Holt if convicted HE WILL GET THE DEATH PENALTY....Is'nt the Oregon govenor anti death penalty.. The judge should've have said COULD GET THE DEATH PENALTY...Am I wrong on this? Will this be tried as a Capitol Case?

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Wha? Gassing up two or three times?? Where does this stuff come from?? I'm only aware of one confirmed fueling stop so far.

Lol, from the pdf, for one. Pdf, p19:

“Clinton Heichel also told Ofc. Muzyn that ‘an unidentified family member contacted the bank where WH has a bank acct. Somehow it was learned from bank employees that WH’s bank card was used once at the Jackson’s Shell…and once at Travel Centers of America, which is located at 790 NW S. Frontage Rd. Troutdale OR 97060.’

The other report was from more than one media source quoting "friends and family", which again, is unconfirmed by LE:

Friends and family claimed that "several" transactions were made on Heichel's ATM card at three different gas stations, and that an attendant at one of those stations remembered seeing Heichel sitting in the passenger seat next to a man who appeared "suspicious and hurried."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...l-phone-found-article-1.1187659#ixzz2AMV1H5wO

Now, personally, I'd be interested in knowing how an "unidentified family member" was able to get the bank to share those ATM records, and the truth of how many gas stations were actually visited will probably come out only if it goes to trial. Clint's friends and family seemed quite certain.

But no, I don't make this stuff up.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Okay. Responding to your questions BBM above, with another question:

Wouldn't it be a shocker if it turns out Holt actually didn't shoot Whitney until he got her to Larch Mountain?

Yes, I do know the front passenger window appears open or busted out in the 9:13am Shell video. And I'm aware his confession says he killed her at Dodge/Roslyn.

Bear with me though. It's only a theory, after all. I've mapped it, and the drive times work out.

https://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&so....483725,-122.325211&spn=0.162236,0.31517&z=11

• [ A ]Whitney agrees to give Holt a ride to the bus stop at ~6:50am. Once they reach Hogan, a couple of blocks away, he takes control via gun. It is not known who is driving at this point.
  
  
• The Explorer heads southeast, straight out of town; they head east on Dodge Park Avenue. Perhaps they stop briefly for some reason? Anyway on this road, somewhat east of the fork at Orient, is reportedly where Whitney's sweater was found by searchers later that day.
  
  
• The Explorer heads ~6 miles further east, onward to Rosslyn Lake [ B ] by ~7:20-7:40?, where it is then parked on SE Thomas, and a sexual assault/attack likely occurs. Perhaps this is when the window is broken? The stolen phone is ditched here and later found by LE. Don't know how long they remained here, but they would have left the area by no later than ~8:35-8:40, with Holt at the wheel.
  
  
• Then the Explorer heads north, back in the general direction of town on the way to Larch Mountain, taking the back road (Lusted to Troutdale). At Stark Rd, Holt makes a very short, brief foray west to gas up at the Shell station [ C ] at 9:13, nearly 2.5 hours into the abduction. Then he reverses direction back onto Stark the way he came, continuing east. Note: Stark quickly joins Crown Point Highway, the shortest direct route up to Larch Mountain.
  
  
• The Explorer is on Larch Mountain within about a half-hour. [ D ] This is a hunting area where gunshots would not attract any undue attention. Could Whitney have been killed there instead of at Dodge Park? Could he have driven her here specifically to kill her and dump her body? Maybe she was restrained? Maybe she was promised her freedom until the last awful moment when he shot her? Whitney's body is left hidden on the mountain, along with the front license plate and other evidence.
  
  
• Then another half-hour back west toward town, perhaps using the Interstate. Holt cleans up the vehicle, gets rid of evidence in parking lot dumpsters, and abandons the Explorer at WalMart [ E ] ~11:17 - 11:39, first showing up on video at WalMart at 11:17 or so, about two hours after gassing up at Shell.
  
  
• P.S. *If* Whitney's card was used at the truck stop, as was reported early on, but which LE has not verified, perhaps Holt used it to purchase something there to aid in the cleanup? The truck stop is very close to the WalMart.

Disclaimer: Not saying this is what happened!!

But IMO the drive times match the known timeline points. The routes match the known evidence thus far. It's a total of less than two hours of driving -- one hour, forty minutes per Google estimates.

That would leave Holt three hours to assault Whitney, shoot her, hide her body, and clean/abandon the Explorer. Plenty of time IMO.

Apologies in advance if I've made any factual errors here; I tried my best to get it right!

No problem with playing with the route theories! (I've been doing some of that myself.) At this point, I'm not sure I could be shocked anymore.

The questions that come to mind, though, with killing her on Larch Mt. concern two things. Just finished reading the pdf and plotting it into my timeline tonight.

The first thing is the amount of blood in the car. The affidavit states that Forensic Scientist Bell said that there was a copious amount of blood in the front seat area as well as the pool of blood (2'x3') on the floor of the back seat that Gleason noted. Why would he drive her all the way to Larch Mt. where gunshots would not be unusual only to shoot her in the car? And if he did, why would he keep her in the car long enough for her to bleed out before hauling her body away and hiding it? If he was going to shoot her up there, seems a lot easier just to force her to walk at gunpoint, then shoot and cover up the body. Less evidence to deal with in the vehicle, which the perp conveniently drove back INTO town for discovery.

(Warning...more graphic):

The second question concerns the window. I have had a theory about that for a couple days, now. And after reading the pdf, I believe it might even have a stronger possibility of being true. In the pdf affidavit Gleason states:

(p.39) "I know form [sic] personally speaking to OSP Forensic Scientist Bell on October 19, 2012 that during her examination of Whitney Heichel's vehicle on Oct. 18, 2012 that there was a large quantity of blood in the front passenger seat area and the back seat area. She also told me there is what appears to be bone fragments on the front passenger floorboard area where [sic] were covered up with the floor mat. OSP Forensic Scientist Bell believes that the bone fragments are apparent skull fragments. She also confirmed that there were four spent shell 9mm casing located in the vehicle.

(P.28) ...The OSP Forensic Scientists did the following:
• Took photographs of the Ford Explorer
• OSP Forensic Scientist Bell found a spent 9mm casing located on the floor in a pile of auto glass shards that were located between the front passenger's seat and the front passenger's door.
• Per OSP Forensic Scientist Bell the imprint of the casing was "S&B 9x19."

From this is seems to me that the window was not shot out from inside the car, nor kicked out during a struggle. Otherwise you'd not have the "pile of glass shards" between the front passenger seat and door.

To me, with the other evidence on the front windshield, skull and teeth fragments on the front floor and the pile of glass inside the passenger door...it just seems like that first shot was through the front passenger window. I'm guessing perhaps because Whitney had locked the door on her assailant, in a fit of rage he put the gun to the window and fired. After the window fragmented from the bullet impact, it was then able to be punched in and the the rest of the shots probably came in quick succession. Shots coming from the direction of her window would also be consistent with her falling toward the console. The console had a dark red drip streak going down to the back seat floor area. I believe the body was then moved to the back seat floor area, and driven for awhile, given the amount of blood that pooled.

[And Whitney, I hate talking about your last moments like this...but know there are MANY people determined to see your killer brought to justice, and that is what is motivating our discussions. <3]

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I'd like to hear anyone's suggestions as to What Was Holt's Motive for killing Whitney?

- did she have "dirt" on Holt

- was Holt overwhelmed with jealousy because the Heichels had the kind of warm, loving relationship Holt wanted

...Also when Holt purchased the guns/ammo in June 2012, and he waits 5 months to kill her, Why did Holt wait so long?

There's only record of ONE gun purchase in June 2012, from Keith's Sporting Goods. I'm wondering if maybe he bought it for protection; his testimony to police says he'd sold his other 3 guns to his Dad (and given his poor financial state, I wouldn't be surprised if that were true).

I get the idea his leases were consistently up in August. In August 2011 he was looking at a rental house in Troutdale (the Heichels lived in Heatherwood Apts at this point in time). Why, if he was supposedly stalking WH, was he looking at a rental house in Troutdale? JH and AH ended up renting an apt. in Gresham. Then, when that lease was up, they moved to the Heatherwood Apts. in 2012. But only after Holt had bought himself a gun that June.

Maybe Holt wasn't the one who wanted to move to the Heatherwood Apts. - maybe that was Amanda's idea. (A post I read on her Facebook support page seemed to indicate that she and Whitney were actually close friends, so this seems reasonable.) Maybe he bought that gun for protection for himself and Amanda, as he said he did. Just a thought, and of course, my own opinion/hunch.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Hm, well... DNA could have been obtained without his knowledge/cooperation... which would make the whole question moot IMO.

But you are saying Holt voluntarily gave DNA samples, right? Do I understand you to mean this happened the second time he sat down with LE? I don't remember this. Was this before he had confessed everything?

If LE started leaning on Holt, implying they were going to test Whitney's car for DNA, it's possible Holt could have been scared into admitted to getting a ride from Whitney that morning (after the "robbery" perhaps?) -- Who knows? Perps often end up doing this IMO, when the heat is on.

IOW, Holt would seemingly have no reason to object to giving his DNA if he'd already covered his bases by admitting to being in or driving Whitney's Explorer. I'm talking about prior to his eventually coming clean about having sexually assaulted and murdered Whitney. Remember, they had not found her body yet...

Anyway, I see what your point of view is, but don't agree with it in general, and can't agree to your more specific suggestion about Holt's situation since I don't know for sure whether he voluntarily submitted to DNA sampling, or if so, at what point in his multiple interviews and eventual confession he would have done so. Hope that makes sense.

BBM
Yes, he voluntarily interviewed and voluntarily submitted to DNA sampling. Media reports Chief Jinginger saying that, and the pdf also states that Holt "voluntarily" submitted to DNA sampling during his 2nd interview (Thursday). At that point they were still simply interviewing him about the robbery as well as separately talking to his wife Amanda, and a forensic artist was trying to draw pictures of the robbery suspects. He was nowhere near confessing to Whitney's murder.

When asked if he'd ever been in Whitney's car, he said he 'couldn't remember' the last time he'd been in it, but that he was pretty sure he'd been in it for 'service.' (That refers to going door to door witnessing, usually in twos, but maybe two couples went out.) BUT, he claimed never to have 'driven' it when they specifically asked that. So he wasn't really covering any bases that I can see. In fact, even in his confession Friday, he says he held the gun on her while SHE drove. (Then, I wonder, when was it that she ended up in the right passenger seat?)

It's confusing to me how they were able to obtain DNA samples "voluntarily" --why would they need them for the robbery? And if gotten under pretense, I'm not sure they'd end up being able to be used in court for the murder trial as he was not yet under arrest for that, the search warrants had not yet been signed, he had no representation, etc. Maybe some legal experts in this forum can weigh in...

 

[gwenabob]

Now, personally, I'd be interested in knowing how an "unidentified family member" was able to get the bank to share those ATM records, and the truth of how many gas stations were actually visited will probably come out only if it goes to trial. Clint's friends and family seemed quite certain. [/B]

bbm

I am guessing perhaps she had a relative, like her mother, as a joint owner on a checking account from before she was married?

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I dont know but you raise a good question. I need to go back and read it again also. I need to go back and read it again myself. Some feel that all the shell casings were found under the drivers seat. I thought I remembered reading that one was on the side of the passenger seat (near where the seatbelt holder is attached). I think I do remember that the report said that all 4 casings were found in the vehicle.


Maybe when we go back and re read things will be a little clearer for both of us!

BBM
You remembered right.

 

[gwenabob]

BBM
Yes, he voluntarily interviewed and voluntarily submitted to DNA sampling

When asked if he'd ever been in Whitney's car, he said he 'couldn't r
It's confusing to me how they were able to obtain DNA samples "voluntarily" --why would they need them for the robbery? And if gotten under pretense, I'm not sure they'd end up being able to be used in court for the murder trial as he was not yet under arrest for that, the search warrants had not yet been signed, he had no representation, etc. Maybe some legal experts in this forum can weigh in...

"Hey, John. Sorry this is taking so long. You must be thirsty. Can I buy you a soda? Here you go." John finishes drinking the soda and leaves. They put the soda can in an evidence bag and they have their voluntary DNA.

They could have also asked him to volunteer a swab "just as a formality, to rule him out." And he fell for it.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

bbm

I am guessing perhaps she had a relative, like her mother, as a joint owner on a checking account from before she was married?

Maybe. Maybe like a family trust account?

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

"Hey, John. Sorry this is taking so long. You must be thirsty. Can I buy you a soda? Here you go." John finishes drinking the soda and leaves. They put the soda can in an evidence bag and they have their voluntary DNA.

They could have also asked him to volunteer a swab "just as a formality, to rule him out." And he fell for it.

Well, yes...I've seen that on the TV shows. But in real life, there's a question of permissibility, I believe. Any lawyers on here?

 

[gwenabob]

Maybe. Maybe like a family trust account?

No, like a regular checking account. When my daughter was a teenager, we opened a checking account for her, to be controlled by her, but my name was on it so that I could transfer money in if I needed in case of emergency. Quite possible Whitney just kept that account even after she married.

 

[nikb]

<respectfully snipped for space, and BBM>
[And Whitney, I hate talking about your last moments like this...but know there are MANY people determined to see your killer brought to justice, and that is what is motivating our discussions. <3]

I think it's a good theory that you posted here.

As to the part I bolded YES, it's so upsetting to discuss but I so want to see justice for Whitney, and protection of possible future victims.

 

[Xavier]

No problem with playing with the route theories! (I've been doing some of that myself.) At this point, I'm not sure I could be shocked anymore.

The questions that come to mind, though, with killing her on Larch Mt. concern two things. Just finished reading the pdf and plotting it into my timeline tonight.

The first thing is the amount of blood in the car. The affidavit states that Forensic Scientist Bell said that there was a copious amount of blood in the front seat area as well as the pool of blood (2'x3') on the floor of the back seat that Gleason noted. Why would he drive her all the way to Larch Mt. where gunshots would not be unusual only to shoot her in the car? And if he did, why would he keep her in the car long enough for her to bleed out before hauling her body away and hiding it? If he was going to shoot her up there, seems a lot easier just to force her to walk at gunpoint, then shoot and cover up the body. Less evidence to deal with in the vehicle, which the perp conveniently drove back INTO town for discovery.

(Warning...more graphic):

The second question concerns the window. I have had a theory about that for a couple days, now. And after reading the pdf, I believe it might even have a stronger possibility of being true. In the pdf affidavit Gleason states:

(p.39) "I know form [sic] personally speaking to OSP Forensic Scientist Bell on October 19, 2012 that during her examination of Whitney Heichel's vehicle on Oct. 18, 2012 that there was a large quantity of blood in the front passenger seat area and the back seat area. She also told me there is what appears to be bone fragments on the front passenger floorboard area where [sic] were covered up with the floor mat. OSP Forensic Scientist Bell believes that the bone fragments are apparent skull fragments. She also confirmed that there were four spent shell 9mm casing located in the vehicle.

(P.28) ...The OSP Forensic Scientists did the following:
&#8226; Took photographs of the Ford Explorer
&#8226; OSP Forensic Scientist Bell found a spent 9mm casing located on the floor in a pile of auto glass shards that were located between the front passenger's seat and the front passenger's door.
&#8226; Per OSP Forensic Scientist Bell the imprint of the casing was "S&B 9x19."

From this is seems to me that the window was not shot out from inside the car, nor kicked out during a struggle. Otherwise you'd not have the "pile of glass shards" between the front passenger seat and door.

To me, with the other evidence on the front windshield, skull and teeth fragments on the front floor and the pile of glass inside the passenger door...it just seems like that first shot was through the front passenger window. I'm guessing perhaps because Whitney had locked the door on her assailant, in a fit of rage he put the gun to the window and fired. After the window fragmented from the bullet impact, it was then able to be punched in and the the rest of the shots probably came in quick succession. Shots coming from the direction of her window would also be consistent with her falling toward the console. The console had a dark red drip streak going down to the back seat floor area. I believe the body was then moved to the back seat floor area, and driven for awhile, given the amount of blood that pooled.

[And Whitney, I hate talking about your last moments like this...but know there are MANY people determined to see your killer brought to justice, and that is what is motivating our discussions. <3]

PIM---Thanks for pulling those reports together. Your theory makes sense.
Why do you think Holt got out of the SUV? To take a "bathroom break"? Then WH locked the doors? If not, then he likely was taking her to kill her @ the Lake or maybe it was somewhere else? I never read about a casing in the front passenger seat area, thanks for the updated report. Did the report say if glass fragments were on the street/pavement where this outside shot happened?

 

[Boodles]

"Hey, John. Sorry this is taking so long. You must be thirsty. Can I buy you a soda? Here you go." John finishes drinking the soda and leaves. They put the soda can in an evidence bag and they have their voluntary DNA.

They could have also asked him to volunteer a swab "just as a formality, to rule him out." And he fell for it.

BBM. But that's not voluntary. That's surreptitious gathering of DNA. It has been deemed admissible in court in prior cases.

I suspect they asked to swab him and he agreed. He was screwed either way, because had he not agreed, it would have raised more suspicion and they would have obtained his DNA surreptitiously.

 

[Xavier]

No problem with playing with the route theories! (I've been doing some of that myself.) At this point, I'm not sure I could be shocked anymore.

The questions that come to mind, though, with killing her on Larch Mt. concern two things. Just finished reading the pdf and plotting it into my timeline tonight.

The first thing is the amount of blood in the car. The affidavit states that Forensic Scientist Bell said that there was a copious amount of blood in the front seat area as well as the pool of blood (2'x3') on the floor of the back seat that Gleason noted. Why would he drive her all the way to Larch Mt. where gunshots would not be unusual only to shoot her in the car? And if he did, why would he keep her in the car long enough for her to bleed out before hauling her body away and hiding it? If he was going to shoot her up there, seems a lot easier just to force her to walk at gunpoint, then shoot and cover up the body. Less evidence to deal with in the vehicle, which the perp conveniently drove back INTO town for discovery.

(Warning...more graphic):

The second question concerns the window. I have had a theory about that for a couple days, now. And after reading the pdf, I believe it might even have a stronger possibility of being true. In the pdf affidavit Gleason states:

(p.39) "I know form [sic] personally speaking to OSP Forensic Scientist Bell on October 19, 2012 that during her examination of Whitney Heichel's vehicle on Oct. 18, 2012 that there was a large quantity of blood in the front passenger seat area and the back seat area. She also told me there is what appears to be bone fragments on the front passenger floorboard area where [sic] were covered up with the floor mat. OSP Forensic Scientist Bell believes that the bone fragments are apparent skull fragments. She also confirmed that there were four spent shell 9mm casing located in the vehicle.

(P.28) ...The OSP Forensic Scientists did the following:
&#8226; Took photographs of the Ford Explorer
&#8226; OSP Forensic Scientist Bell found a spent 9mm casing located on the floor in a pile of auto glass shards that were located between the front passenger's seat and the front passenger's door.
&#8226; Per OSP Forensic Scientist Bell the imprint of the casing was "S&B 9x19."

From this is seems to me that the window was not shot out from inside the car, nor kicked out during a struggle. Otherwise you'd not have the "pile of glass shards" between the front passenger seat and door.

To me, with the other evidence on the front windshield, skull and teeth fragments on the front floor and the pile of glass inside the passenger door...it just seems like that first shot was through the front passenger window. I'm guessing perhaps because Whitney had locked the door on her assailant, in a fit of rage he put the gun to the window and fired. After the window fragmented from the bullet impact, it was then able to be punched in and the the rest of the shots probably came in quick succession. Shots coming from the direction of her window would also be consistent with her falling toward the console. The console had a dark red drip streak going down to the back seat floor area. I believe the body was then moved to the back seat floor area, and driven for awhile, given the amount of blood that pooled.

[And Whitney, I hate talking about your last moments like this...but know there are MANY people determined to see your killer brought to justice, and that is what is motivating our discussions. <3]

This makes alot of sense...If/When we'll find out if WH had a gunshot wounds to her right side nearest window...Again, we DO KNOW Holt told LE the shooting was at the Lake. Maybe this lunatic was B.S.'ing LE with more round about timelines of crime scenes...

 

[Boodles]

PIM---Thanks for pulling those reports together. Your theory makes sense.
Why do you think Holt got out of the SUV? To take a "bathroom break"? Then WH locked the doors? If not, then he likely was taking her to kill her @ the Lake or maybe it was somewhere else? I never read about a casing in the front passenger seat area, thanks for the updated report. Did the report say if glass fragments were on the street/pavement where this outside shot happened?

BBM. Great question! I wonder if broken glass, blood, tire tracks, shoe prints, etc. we're found at the alleged shooting location. All that's mentioned publicly is finding the iphone on the berm. Did they find anything else there?

If you're curious, go to google maps and search for "40734 Southeast Thomas Road, Sandy,Oregon". Select satellite view and zoom. Look at the narrow turnout just in front of the light pole and do street view. Pan to see what's around. It's at the edge of a wide open area.

This spot, where JH supposedly forced a sex act and shot WH, is in plain view of passing traffic! Why would you choose this very visible place to commit such acts? Any passing vehicle (during commuting hours nonetheless) on this 2 lane road might stop, or at least slow down to inquire, "hey, everything ok there?" There are woods very near to this area, dirt roads with secluded areas, etc., but he pulls over at this turnout? STRANGE!

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

PIM---Thanks for pulling those reports together. Your theory makes sense.
Why do you think Holt got out of the SUV? To take a "bathroom break"? Then WH locked the doors? If not, then he likely was taking her to kill her @ the Lake or maybe it was somewhere else? I never read about a casing in the front passenger seat area, thanks for the updated report. Did the report say if glass fragments were on the street/pavement where this outside shot happened?

There are any number of theories as to why the assailant might have been outside the SUV. (And I guess you've gathered by now I'm not necessarily convinced Holt was the triggerman.)

The report said there were some glass fragments found on the exterior running board of the front passenger door side of the car. Some of the evidence in the interior of the car (esp. driver's side rear passenger door) seems to suggest that that door had been used, and, to me, that maybe her body had been pulled out that side--blood on the speaker on the lower portion of the door as well as other spots low down on the door. The exterior of the car was covered in a fine misty dust; there were also smudges where that had been removed on that door side. (The rear cargo door and bumper looked untouched, dust-wise.)

The only other place where I remember them mentioning a few glass fragments being found was up on the mountain near when they found the license plate. In a bumpy, brushy terrain, maybe some of the glass fragments on the front passenger running board had come off.

 

[Glow]

Amazing. You all are really using the evidence in the doc. to coalesce a pretty tight theory.

Here are just a couple of things to throw in to the general mix....

Could it be possible that JH did not start out intending to kill Whitney?

We know it ended up that way but that does not mean that he started out with that in mind. What we do know is that his mind was heavily steeped in the porn world. I am thinking I should google some facts about porn. I am betting that porn and violence are common themes that run together. Is that right?

What accounts for the "stains" on the hood of the car? Most of them being round. My immediate thought was the back of someones head. Was the body placed on the hood after death? If so, why? Was that a resting place while the murderer tried to decide what to do next?

and lastly,

I am still not convinced that there was actually sodomy. NOT that JH didnt intend that and more than likely a WHOLE lot more. I mean what porn teaches is that anything and everything is the norm, right? If you are going to go to all the trouble to kidnap someone (at least we know that part WAS premeditated) why would you not plan to make it worth your while? Fulfill ALL your porn fueled fantasies?

One answer to that might be if JH wasnt just bent on acting out a porn scenario. What if he had a more romantic slant on things. He was unhappy in his marriage and work. What if he felt attracted to this happy bubbly girl on the periphery of his world? What if she quickly became the center of his mental world and that and his delusions made him think if he could just get her "away" he could act on his mental ideas?

Actually the more I type that last one out, the less likely it seems. It would seem that if you have to take a gun to get someone alone with you, then you are acknowledging on some level that you know you are having to "make them" cooperate.

Whatever the case, I am leaning towards thinking that he didnt intend for it to end up like it did. I think something went wrong. Either she tried to get away or tried to get the gun and things happened in the blink of an eye. I think he was scared and shocked and felt sorry for himself (why does everything always go wrong for me?)

I think his erratic actions afterwards are a reflection of that. Wandering around, haphazardly disposing of things, all the while distracted by his own mental process that this wasnt his fault.

When LE leaned on him just the slightest in the interview, I think JH felt relieved. "Here, this has all become a heavy burden, you take it" is what he thought (I think).

In his mind, no self respecting "man" is going to have kidnapped a woman and murdered her for NO reason, so he threw in the oral sex thing. I mean what self respecting porn loving guy is going to do all of the above and say he did it all with absolutely NO gratification?

It wouldnt have sounded good (in his mind) to say "well I had planned to rape her but I lost my temper and shot her first." That might make him look weak or out of control of the situation.

He knows he cant claim rape because the DNA wont support that claim so he brings up something that might not be as easy to prove or disprove. At least that way, it looks like he was in control and did what he set out to. And in his mind that might look better than just the whole thing being one giant screw up, just like the rest of his life seemed to be to him.

 

[Boodles]

The only other place where I remember them mentioning a few glass fragments being found was up on the mountain near when they found the license plate. In a bumpy, brushy terrain, maybe some of the glass fragments on the front passenger running board had come off.

"On Wednesday, searchers scoured Dodge Park, moving from the river banks to the brush. By the side of the road investigators marked, examined and documented tire tracks in the mud...They also marked areas with red tape where they found broken window glass."
http://www.katu.com/news/local/Poli...park-for-missing-Gresham-woman-174660661.html

Glass was also found at Dodge Park on Wednesday.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

BBM. Great question! I wonder if broken glass, blood, tire tracks, shoe prints, etc. we're found at the alleged shooting location. All that's mentioned publicly is finding the iphone on the berm. Did they find anything else there?

If you're curious, go to google maps and search for "40734 Southeast Thomas Road, Oregon". Select satellite view and zoom. Look at the narrow turnout just in front of the light pole and do street view. Pan to see what's around. It's at the edge of a wide open area.

This spot, where JH supposedly forced a sex act and shot WH, is in plain view of passing traffic! Why would you choose this very visible place to commit such acts? Any passing vehicle (during commuting hours nonetheless) on this 2 lane road might stop, or at least slow down to inquire, "hey, everything ok there?" There are woods very near to this area, dirt roads with secluded areas, etc., but he pulls over at this turnout? STRANGE!

I agree, Boodles. This doesn't fit. If he hadn't taken them to the crime scene, it appears you'd never know it was a crime scene.

To be frank, it also bothers me that about a half dozen LE went down there (hour round trip) to survey the crime scene, but while they took down all kinds of notes about strips on the telephone pole, noting numbers written in black in the dark of night...they decided to come back in the morning for a search of the area.

The berm where that telephone pole is is very small--basically the telephone pole defines it (see Bing map with Boodles' address). With their flashlights (surely used for the telephone pole number-copying on two different attached strips) they could have scanned that small area and found CH's old cell phone easily that same night. If that is the ONLY evidence marking this as the so-called crime scene (plus JH's testimony which we all seem to agree is hinky)...then I'm not convinced, yet.